Who is the better hockey player: Skinner or Reinhart

[LGR4GM]

Simple question, which player is the better hockey player? 

[WildCard]

I mean it's Reinhart and it's not even close

[freester]

39 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I mean it's Reinhart and it's not even close

When Sam plays on a different line from Jack for a season , than we can judge.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, freester said:

When Sam plays on a different line from Jack for a season , than we can judge.

Sam put up 47 points as a 20-year-old sophomore on a different line from Jack.

Sam put up 12 points in 15 games in 2018 when Jack was injured.

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sam put up 47 points as a 20-year-old sophomore on a different line from Jack.

Sam put up 12 points in 15 games in 2018 when Jack was injured.

Yea but like ...  That’s your opinion man. 😂

The oft repeated stats and proof are gladly ignored by the doubters and haters of Reinhart. Rinse and repeat. Obvious schtick.

[Weave]

Better is going to be hard to answer.  I imagine it will depend on the role and the system they are placed in.  These are two very, very different kind of players.  Both high end, but with very different attributes.  They both seem to thrive on capitalizing on other players efforts, vacuuming up rebounds, taking advantage of openings that others create, etc.  But they do it in very different ways.  I think ideally they are both high end 2nd line players that don't look at all out of place on the first line.  Jeff is a more dynamic player that thrives on speed and chaos, Sam is a more controlled player that uses his linemates better.

My gut tells me that in Ralph's system Sam will be the better player because Ralph demands responsible play, but Jeff will be the flashier, more chaos creating player that won't get put into the best situations because I suspect Ralph won't have as much trust in Jeff.  I think Skinner would come out on top in a balls out speed system that emphasizes offensive at the sake of defense.

I think they are similar but very different, if that makes sense.

[SwampD]

Better player at what, shootouts?

That's easy. Sam.

[Shootica]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Sam put up 47 points as a 20-year-old sophomore on a different line from Jack.

Sam put up 12 points in 15 games in 2018 when Jack was injured.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he played most of his minutes with Ryan O'Reilly that year.  I don't think the argument is that he's bad without Jack specifically, it's whether he can be the line driver or if he's more of a complementary piece.

I think this whole debate is silly because we don't have enough of a sample size to really judge.  But you can't bring up 2018 without mentioning ROR.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Shootica

[Zamboni]

Some people are dazzled with dipsy doodles and sick deeks. And base their opinion of a players worth on how much they can do those things. Those same people think that Afinogenov was a hell of a lot better than he was, for many more years than he was. 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, Shootica said:

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he played most of his minutes with Ryan O'Reilly that year.  I don't think the argument is that he's bad without Jack specifically, it's whether he can be the line driver or if he's more of a complementary piece.

I think this whole debate is silly because we don't have enough of a sample size to really judge.  But you can't bring up 2018 without mentioning ROR.

And O'Reilly was the ONE player Reinhart has played with that he clicked with better than Eichel.  Having 2 dump it in and retrieve it yourself 1st guys that can actually do so on the same line is a good thing.

[dudacek]

58 minutes ago, Shootica said:

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he played most of his minutes with Ryan O'Reilly that year.  I don't think the argument is that he's bad without Jack specifically, it's whether he can be the line driver or if he's more of a complementary piece.

I think this whole debate is silly because we don't have enough of a sample size to really judge.  But you can't bring up 2018 without mentioning ROR.

Why does so much discussion about Sam centre on whether he can “drive a line.”

Nobody talks about Jeff Skinner or Victor Olofsson or Thomas Vanek, or Jason Pominville or Brock Boeser or Tyler Toffoli or god knows how many other top six wingers in that context. Only Sam.

Where are the “yeah, but what has Backstrom ever done without Ovi?” or “Point without Kucherov?” endless debates?

Even Lafontaine was only LAFONTAINE with Mogilny and vice versa. Good players play with good players and make each other better. 

This narrative has become so tedious with Sam.

Edited October 30, 2020 by dudacek

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Why does so much discussion about Sam centre on whether he can “drive a line.”

Nobody talks about Jeff Skinner or Victor Olofsson or Thomas Vanek, or Jason Pominville or Brock Boeser or Tyler Toffoli or god knows how many other top six wingers in that context. Only Sam.

Where are the “yeah, but what has Backstrom ever done without Ovi?” or “Point without Kucherov?” endless debates?

Even Lafontaine was only LAFONTAINE with Mogilny and vice versa. Good players play with good players and make each other better. 

This narrative has become so tedious with Sam.

It is a tedious narrative.  But it seems it's his biggest fans that tend to push the "Sam can & should drive a line" narrative.

And that SEEMS to be a remnant of the old Reinhart fanboi arguments that Reinhart was & would be better than Eichel. 

And agree that whether Sam can drive a line or not, he's a valuable part & needs to be contributing for this team to be as successful as we hope/ expect (are we allowed to use that word?) it to be (especially should the GT be addressed).

But the narrative is a part of this board, sadly, and likely isn't going away anytime prior to him finally signing that LT deal I'd hoped he sign for the past 3 years.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The real question is who is the  better player, Samson or Leon D?

If you really want to know why people seem down on Samson and the answer is right there.

VO has no such luggage as a late rd pick.

Skinner’s bad season this season and others in the past puts him behind Samson who hasn’t had a bad full season.

Edited October 30, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[nfreeman]

Well, the whole "how good would Sam be away from Jack" question, IMHO, should more accurately be "how good would Sam be if his linemates were Sobotka and Mojo?" -- i.e. would he be as bad as Skinner was last year?

I tend to think that Sam's production would take a major hit but he still wouldn't be as bad as Skinner was last year.

I think Skinner's ceiling is higher than Sam's but his floor is also lower than Sam's, as we saw last year.

Hopefully they will both have high quality linemates from here on out and those who are so inclined can make an apples-to-apples comparison.

[Shootica]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Why does so much discussion about Sam centre on whether he can “drive a line.”

Nobody talks about Jeff Skinner or Victor Olofsson or Thomas Vanek, or Jason Pominville or Brock Boeser or Tyler Toffoli or god knows how many other top six wingers in that context. Only Sam.

Where are the “yeah, but what has Backstrom ever done without Ovi?” or “Point without Kucherov?” endless debates?

Even Lafontaine was only LAFONTAINE with Mogilny and vice versa. Good players play with good players and make each other better. 

This narrative has become so tedious with Sam.

You have a really good point.  We do probably harp on it more than we need to around here.  And I have a hard time pinning it down myself.  Maybe it's because he isn't a flashy player, maybe it's just because of lofty expectations from a #2 pick.

I think for me, I find myself asking that question because his play style leads me to think he could be that 'it' guy on a different line.  Players like Skinner and Olofsson have skillsets that scream "complementary player".  Reinhart is a lot more nuanced.  I'd ideally like to see us run a more balanced lineup with three lines that have formidable scoring ability, and Reinhart's name comes to mind when I ask myself how we strengthen those middle six lines.

And because we've never seen Reinhart play that sort of role, I'm just left wondering.  I think he'd be great at it, I just want to see it happen.  It's not a slight against him by any stretch.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Well, the whole "how good would Sam be away from Jack" question, IMHO, should more accurately be "how good would Sam be if his linemates were Sobotka and Mojo?" -- i.e. would he be as bad as Skinner was last year?

I tend to think that Sam's production would take a major hit but he still wouldn't be as bad as Skinner was last year.

I think Skinner's ceiling is higher than Sam's but his floor is also lower than Sam's, as we saw last year.

Hopefully they will both have high quality linemates from here on out and those who are so inclined can make an apples-to-apples comparison.

And, as long as we're asking questions peripherally about Jeff, how much of Skinner's poor year was due to the knee injury he sustained at the Meet Up game but played through?  IF that was a factor, this COVID shutdown could be a blessing in disguise for him as he'll have had ~8 months of additional, recovery/rehab time to get back to 100%.

(And further random question: how many guys that have had lingering soft tissue injuries are going to play like they're 5 years younger now that they've finally fully healed and how many new soft tissue injuries will there be because guys got out of their normal fitness regimen and weren't fully back to game shape when the new season starts?)

Edited October 30, 2020 by Taro T

[R_Dudley]

1. Sam

2. Sam

Just a better all around player based on what I have seen. 

 

[Thorner]

REINHART CAME TO PLAY. 2 early round KOs without breaking a sweat

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Why does so much discussion about Sam centre on whether he can “drive a line.”

Nobody talks about Jeff Skinner or Victor Olofsson or Thomas Vanek, or Jason Pominville or Brock Boeser or Tyler Toffoli or god knows how many other top six wingers in that context. Only Sam.

Where are the “yeah, but what has Backstrom ever done without Ovi?” or “Point without Kucherov?” endless debates?

Even Lafontaine was only LAFONTAINE with Mogilny and vice versa. Good players play with good players and make each other better. 

This narrative has become so tedious with Sam.

I do. 

And Sam CAN drive a line. Haha

Agree totally on the "good players play with good players" bit. Almost anyone ahead of Jack in the top 10 in scoring last season was playing on a line with another guy in/around the top 10. But not Jack. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Thorny

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

7 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Yea but like ...  That’s your opinion man. 😂

The oft repeated stats and proof are gladly ignored by the doubters and haters of Reinhart. Rinse and repeat. Obvious schtick.

Besides that, Skinner and Sam both had garbage C's when away from Jack.

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The real question is who is the  better player, Samson or Leon D?

If you really want to know why people seem down on Samson and the answer is right there.

VO has no such luggage as a late rd pick.

Skinner’s bad season this season and others in the past puts him behind Samson who hasn’t had a bad full season.

People should be able to separate their disappointment with the selection itself from their views and analysis of the player. 

Often there will be a player in the field that comes after any selection that's better.

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The real question is who is the  better player, Samson or Leon D?

If you really want to know why people seem down on Samson and the answer is right there.

 

No it's not. Draisaitl isn't a Sabre and is better. You want that to be the question, feel free to start a thread about it. 

[freester]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

No it's not. Draisaitl isn't a Sabre and is better. You want that to be the question, feel free to start a thread about it. 

Lighten up Francis...

[Indabuff]

10 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Some people are dazzled with dipsy doodles and sick deeks.

Not sure if this is more fitting in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or a Dr. Seuss book but either way I like it.

[I-90 W]

He’s definitely better than Sam Bennet, remember when that was a thing?