Bullying and Hockey, NHL Draft Prospect gets Undrafted

[LGR4GM]

So this topic has been talked about in the around the NHL thread, idk if a mod wants to move all that but I think it should be split off. 

The short version is in 2016 a 2020 Coyotes draft pick named Mitch Miller did some pretty awful things. This was a pattern of bullying that extended for years and culminated in him putting a push pop in a urinal and then convincing someone to lick it. That someone was a Black student with a developmental disability. The Coyotes knew and drafted him in the 4th round with their first pick of the draft. It has caused quite the debate about what should be tolerated and when should you forgive. 

https://theathletic.com/2162185/2020/10/27/arizona-coyotes-mitchell-miller-bullying-nhl/

On 10/26/2020 at 8:14 PM, LGR4GM said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by LGR4GM
spelling

[LGR4GM]

From the Athletic Article for those without a sub

"The incident, described in detail in a police report obtained by The Athletic and first reported by The Arizona Republic, is difficult to read. The worst of it: Miller and a classmate, McKie, rubbed a candy push-pop inside a urinal at the school during a girls basketball game and enticed Isaiah Meyer-Crothers to put it in his mouth, nearly falling over with laughter when he did.

Both Miller and McKie were punished by the school with suspensions; Miller’s punishment was greater, per the report, because he lied repeatedly to school administrators, who confirmed the reports of other students by using the school’s security cameras."

[IKnowPhysics]

They did.

https://www.nhl.com/coyotes/news/coyotes-renounce-rights-to-mitchell-miller/c-319543540

Quote

GLENDALE, ARIZONA --- The Arizona Coyotes announced today that the club has renounced the rights to Mitchell Miller. Miller was selected by the Coyotes in the fourth round (111th overall) of the 2020 NHL Draft.

"We have decided to renounce the rights to Mitchell Miller, effective immediately," said Coyotes' President & CEO Xavier Gutierrez. "Prior to selecting Mitchell in the NHL Draft, we were aware that a bullying incident took place in 2016. We do not condone this type of behavior but embraced this as a teachable moment to work with Mitchell to make him accountable for his actions and provide him with an opportunity to be a leader on anti-bullying and anti-racism efforts. We have learned more about the entire matter, and more importantly, the impact it has had on Isaiah and the Meyer-Crothers family. What we learned does not align with the core values and vision for our organization and leads to our decision to renounce our draft rights. On behalf of the Arizona Coyotes ownership and our entire organization, I would like to apologize to Isaiah and the Meyer-Crothers family. We are building a model franchise on and off the ice and will do the right thing for Isaiah and the Meyer-Crothers family, our fans and our partners. Mr. Miller is now a free agent and can pursue his dream of becoming an NHL player elsewhere."

"I fully support our decision to renounce Mitchell Miller's draft rights," said Coyotes' General Manager Bill Armstrong. "It was a unique situation for me not being able to participate in this year's Draft and we were going through a transition with our scouting department. Mitchell is a good hockey player, but we need to do the right thing as an organization and not just as a hockey team. I'd like to apologize to Isaiah and the Meyer-Crothers family for everything they have dealt with the past few months. I wish them all the best in the future."

The Coyotes top priority is to be a leader on diversity, inclusion and equity and the club will continue to work with numerous local organizations including Best Buddies, One Step Beyond and the American Special Hockey Association to support people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. In addition, the Coyotes and the Arizona Coyotes Foundation will look to partner with local non-profit organizations fighting bullying and racism.

 

[Brawndo]

I wonder if UND follows suit and revokes His Scholarship or at least refuses to play him. 

[LTS]

Kids can be raised as jerks.. and I blame the parents and those who support that behavior.

That said, events like this need to happen because it needs to be a punch in the face for every kid out there with dreams of the NHL that acting like an asshat in your teen years is going to come back to haunt you.  One hopes that those who are currently being enabled by their parents and peers see this outcome and think twice about the way they are choosing to live day to day while they pursue their NHL dreams.

I can't definitively say what life influences led this kid to act in such a way, but I wouldn't try to defend it anyway.  Point is, he did these things, and now he's paying the price. Perhaps this motivates him to get more involved in organizations that work with children with developmental disabilities so he can truly understand the challenges they face.  More importantly, I hope he sees just how amazing so many of them are and how their disability allows them to see life different from so many of us and through that can help others realize how they let trivial matters impede their quality of life.

That's probably some poor grammar there at the end, but I hope my point comes across.

[Shootica]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I wonder if UND follows suit and revokes His Scholarship or at least refuses to play him. 

I'd be shocked if this doesn't happen by the end of the day.

[North Buffalo]

Bullying happens and kids test their limits but its up to parents to put cabash on it quickly.  The relentlessness of what this kid did shows me his parents didnt do squat and kid didnt learn the lesson.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

It's more likely that he lives his life blaming the kid and the parents and the cancel culture boogieman and goes on being an asshat and raising a bunch of little asshats.

And he'll have lots of support. Just go on Twitter and see how many people paint Miller as the victim of "PC" culture. Wouldn't shock me if he winds up on Tucker Carlson's show.

[Zamboni]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And he'll have lots of support. Just go on Twitter and see how many people paint Miller as the victim of "PC" culture. Wouldn't shock me if he winds up on Tucker Carlson's show.

Or Rachel Maddows 😂

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

Or Rachel Maddows 😂

Unlikely.

[pi2000]

Nobody here knows him or parents personally.    Don't just assume the parents enabled his behavior, or that he has a long history of bullying.   My boys are 16 and 14.... I've done my best to show them the right way to treat others, what they do on their own is their decision, not mine. 

People change, boys mature later than girls, at 15-16-17 we all probably made some terrible life choices at some point.   That does not excuse his behavior, but to blacklist the kid from competitive hockey because of a poor decision he made 4-5 years ago as a teenager isn't exactly fair either.      HIs statement seemed quite penitent... I'd give him a chance, maybe advise him to perform some community service to show folks he's changed, make a positive impact, and keep him on a very short leash.  

That said, maybe he's just a jerk, raised by jerks, and if that's the case, launch him.

[BagBoy]

If I put myself in Mitch Miller's position, and then imagine someone kicking the ***** out of me for what I did, I think I might have learned my lesson and stopped being quite so much of a dick.  I know this sounds like somewhat of a Neanderthal attitude, but in WWII, we didn't take Japan and Germany to court when they acted up, we (The Allies) kicked their *****, and they have been behaving very well ever since.  I know the kid Mitchell was bullying was not capable of defending himself, but I also know there were plenty of people who knew what was going on, didn't like it, and did nothing to stop it.  Maybe if someone layed a beatdown on Mitchell, not only would the bullying victim be a happier healthier person, but Mitchell would be, too.

[Andrew Amerk]

12 minutes ago, BagBoy said:

If I put myself in Mitch Miller's position, and then imagine someone kicking the ***** out of me for what I did, I think I might have learned my lesson and stopped being quite so much of a dick.  I know this sounds like somewhat of a Neanderthal attitude, but in WWII, we didn't take Japan and Germany to court when they acted up, we (The Allies) kicked their *****, and they have been behaving very well ever since.  I know the kid Mitchell was bullying was not capable of defending himself, but I also know there were plenty of people who knew what was going on, didn't like it, and did nothing to stop it.  Maybe if someone layed a beatdown on Mitchell, not only would the bullying victim be a happier healthier person, but Mitchell would be, too.

So, the idea to stop bullying, is to be a bigger bully to the bully?

[BagBoy]

No.  Just a measured response.

[Curt]

This whole saga is such a embarrassing disaster from the Coyotes perspective.

Everyone knew about his history.  All teams knew, it was publicly reported.  I had read about it.  If you are going to make the decision to draft this player and give him a chance, you better be ready.  You better have justification for why you believe in him and why he deserves that 2nd chance to prove himself as a human being.

To make the purposeful decision to take him into your organization, only to then drop him when the 4 year old story gets back into the news, just makes the Coyotes look totally directionless and spineless.  If you believe in this guy then defend him!  If you don’t believe in this guy then why did you draft him in the first place?   It just looks really haphazard.

This coming on the heels of being penalized for scouting violations and losing their 2020 2nd and 2021 1st round picks just makes it that much worse.  They look a mess.

And they haven’t had a winning season since 2011.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Curt

[North Buffalo]

4 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

So, the idea to stop bullying, is to be a bigger bully to the bully?

No but someone should have protected the kid.  My oldest has done it a couple of times.  Once because he was one of biggest kids in his class in elementary school older boys were picking on his small friend clocked a kid two years older and recently now that he is huge he had a stern convo with kids bullying a developmentally disabled kid. We talked about how to handle those kids and told him not to pick a fight but make sure they knew their actions would not be tolerated.  I am truly proud of him.

Edited October 30, 2020 by North Buffalo

[I-90 W]

He was really young but his statement/apology didn’t really strike me as remorseful. Seemed like it was interwoven with excuses (he was young etc). Not sure how much his heart has actually changed but that’s just the feel I had reading his statement personally. 

[matter2003]

Tough times to have something like this come up...I guess I would say his actions were deplorable but also I would say how many people would be ashamed and embarrassed about stuff they did as 8th graders if it came out now?

I find it hard to punish someone for actions that happened many years ago as a kid IF he has since changed his ways and become a better person. If he is really the same douchebag that he was and just wrote an apology letter because he had to or his agent told him to,  then he fully deserves this.

Edited October 30, 2020 by matter2003

[Brawndo]

 

 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

The incident in question was part of a long pattern of bullying. I don't have to assume. 

And speaking as a person that was bullied as a kid I don't give a rats ass whether he gets to play hockey as an adult or not.

I can picture the kid who escalated his persistent bullying of me to a full on assault  on my last day of 8th grade right now. I can tell you his name. I can draw a picture of him for you. I can tell you what time of day it was. I can tell you what teachers room I was in. I can tell you about the phone call I had to make to my own parents and about the shame I felt about getting my ass kicked in front of my peers for doing nothing. I can describe how it felt to have nobody help me. I can tell you which administrator drove me home and what kind of car he drove. It was almost 30 years ago. Piss on him and piss on Mitch Miller.

I experienced incidents that were very similar.  I am with you.

[Zamboni]

He’s a massive jerk for doing that a few years ago, obviously. And he’s paying for it now. Good.

Is there, at some point, ever, while he can play a game competitively, try to make a career out of it? Or is he banned for the rest of his “younger years” from pursuing his passion as far as his talent can take him, to make a living playing a game?

Edited October 30, 2020 by Zamboni

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

If you want to hire him go ahead. I don't want to hire him and I won't support your business if you do. Do whatever you want.

If he wants forgiveness he should talk to the deity of his choice. That's not my department. 

Also, maybe I'll consider it when the kid he tortured can eat an ice cream without thinking about Mitch Miller's urine. That seems fair.

So, from your perspective, no?  He should never be able to have a career playing pro hockey.

I just worry about going down this road of trial by mob.  I can’t align myself with the idea that if someone (in the public eye) makes mistakes, they should be punished, not only by judge, jury, and the law, but also by taking away from them the thing which they love the most, or thing they are best at.  Forever.

That kind of mentality does not leave much room for the very human concepts of enlightenment and redemption.

[I-90 W]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

So, from your perspective, no?  He should never be able to have a career playing pro hockey.

I just worry about going down this road of trial by mob.  I can’t align myself with the idea that if someone (in the public eye) makes mistakes, they should be punished, not only by judge, jury, and the law, but also by taking away from them the thing which they love the most, or thing they are best at.  Forever.

That kind of mentality does not leave much room for the very human concepts of enlightenment and redemption.

I understand your concern about cancel culture, as it is a valid one. However I don’t think a team releasing their draft pick is a due process issue. To the best of my knowledge the kid wasn’t even signed yet. 

[Thorner]

I read that, according the person in question's mother, the bullying from Mitchell continued until Mitchell was 16. He's what, 18? There may come a time for the second chance, it's such a fundamentally necessary aspect of society, but I find it hard to believe he could be close to being able to grasp the severity of the atrocity he partook in, right now. Up to and including even if he thinks he can, right now. More time. 

[inkman]

As someone who has ***** up so many times in life I’ve lost track, I want to feel empathy for the kid.  The details in the story make it extremely difficult.  He’s paying the piper.  I wish people were a little less cavalier about his future but I guess that’s human nature.  
 

His parents on the other hand, are almost certainly the root cause of his lack of compassion and extreme callousness toward a person who did nothing to deserve that kind of treatment.  I’d be real curious to hear stories of his upbringing and what led him to be so void of compassion.  
 

I have a hard time believing he came from two well adjusted, empathetic people.  There are probably some ghosts in their closet and demons that are finally seeing the light of day.