2020-'21 Sabres Prospects

[steveoath]

Tommer spotted earlier today.

[Curt]

Thompson before and after pics.....

 

[Marvin]

People are on fire in this thread.  😆

[spndnchz]

On 12/14/2020 at 1:51 PM, LGR4GM said:

Well Cozens gets a lot of hype and rightfully so, Tage has apparently filled out that lanky giraffe frame. 

 

Months ago talk with Tage and he really did recover very well from injury.  I think the unknown is his skill level.

[dudacek]

Sabres with a pretty good showing in Pronman's best under-23 list with 7 players in the top 150, and the top-ranked overall.

1 Dahlin

18 Cozens

72 Jokiharju

81 Mittelstadt

97 Quinn

142 Johnson

145 Peterka

https://theathletic.com/2277771/2021/01/08/ranking-nhl-stars-under-23-rasmus-dahlin-elias-pettersson-alexis-lafreniere/

[tom webster]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sabres with a pretty good showing in Pronman's best under-23 list with 7 players in the top 150, and the top-ranked overall.

1 Dahlin

18 Cozens

72 Jokiharju

81 Mittelstadt

97 Quinn

142 Johnson

145 Peterka

https://theathletic.com/2277771/2021/01/08/ranking-nhl-stars-under-23-rasmus-dahlin-elias-pettersson-alexis-lafreniere/

He is one guy who refuses to give up on Casey.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

He is one guy who refuses to give up on Casey.

No he is not. @GASabresIUFAN is first in line extolling his virtue. I'm in the same refusing to give up on him line but a lot farther back in the line. I would be ecstatic if he did play beyond my expectation. 🙂

[tom webster]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No he is not. @GASabresIUFAN is first in line extolling his virtue. I'm in the same refusing to give up on him line but a lot farther back in the line. I would be ecstatic if he did play beyond my expectation. 🙂

Did not say he is “the” one guy, just one guy. Definitely one of few with a national stage. I wonder how much of it goes back to him listing him a can’t miss star. 

[rakish]

37 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Did not say he is “the” one guy, just one guy. Definitely one of few with a national stage. I wonder how much of it goes back to him listing him a can’t miss star. 

What's interesting to me is that Pronman wasn't a Mittlestadt guy at the time of the draft. His draft list would have selected Vilardi at 8 (probably the right answer), so his ownership of Mittlestadt began later. I like his 17 year old valuation, his 18 and 19, not so much.

[GASabresIUFAN]

My whole thing with Mitts is that it's far to early to give up on him.  He is a high skill fast forward who is a pretty big who hasn't been developed properly until last season.  We all know that he had strength issues when drafted.  We also know from the quotes of his AHL coaches, and confirmed by RK this camp, that Mitts made excellent strides late last year.

I look at this 22 year old player and understand that many very good to all-star caliber players often don't hit the NHL until years 4, 5 or more years after they were drafted.  Guys like 3rd overall pick JP Dumont didn't make the NHL full time until year 5.  For 1st rd pick Briere it was year 6.  Roy and Pominville both started year 5 in the minors before establishing themselves in the NHL.  Olofsson, now a top 6 player, made the NHL at 25 years old.

Thompson, who everyone is magically high on all of the sudden is a year older then Mitts, and assuming he stays healthy, this will be, in year 5, his first full season in the NHL.

I honestly don't understand all the shade thrown Mitts' way.  All the faux-scouts here keep saying he'll never make it.  However, the coaches and GM's are saying the opposite.  I'll go with the pros.

Edited January 8, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[jsb]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I honestly don't understand all the shade thrown Mitts' way.  All the faux-scouts here keep saying he'll never make it.  However, the coaches and GM's are saying the opposite.  I'll go with the pros.

It's the sports fans of every city in every sport including Buffalo that needs to have a fall guy/s as to why their team isn't winning. You don't develop as fast as they want, they're a bust, if you don't have the stats of a star player you're the reason we're losing, your forwards don't back check properly, it's the guy on defense who sucks. You unfortunately cannot change the narrative on a player by yourself. Hang in there, it'll all clear up eventually.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I just read the list and he lost me at Matt Boldy.  He said Boldy's compete level was "average."  Apparently he didn't watch the WJRs.  Coach Leaman said following the Gold Medal win that Boldy's compete level was off the charts.  His willingness to work in the dirty areas was a huge key to the teams' success.  

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/matt-boldy-has-been-a-do-everything-guy-for-the-united-states

Also last I looked, Mitts is not a below-average skater.  Every scouting report I've ever seen lists him as above average to dynamic and watching him for the Sabres skating is not his issue.  

Edited January 8, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[nfreeman]

Well, I don't think it's unreasonable to have watched Mitts look completely lost and ineffective last year and as a result to be pessimistic about his NHL future.  I agree though that he could still develop into a good player and that there is no reason to give up on him yet -- they should keep him until his contract/waiver situation requires them to make a decision on him, or until they trade for a good player and Mitts is needed as a piece in that deal.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

Did not say he is “the” one guy, just one guy. Definitely one of few with a national stage. I wonder how much of it goes back to him listing him a can’t miss star. 

Would say a ton of it falls on him saying he was at the top of the list of guys that weren't yet in the NHL.  HIS 5 points in the 6 games he was up that year didn't hurt either on keeping expectations high.

Still think he makes it and there's a better than even chance he's a 2C rather than a 3C/3W.  He never should've been forced into a 2C role 1 year after being drafted.  Especially w/ no top 6 talent next to him.  Too much, too quick.  Look at how long it took Connolly to recover from getting that kind of usage from the Aisles and actually learn to play the position.  For all the woes on D, had he not gotten Schaeffered, the Sabres probably still win the SC that year even with Campbell, Lyman, & AHLers on D.  And people were still willing to ship him out of town on a rail when the '05-'06 season started.

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

Did not say he is “the” one guy, just one guy. Definitely one of few with a national stage. I wonder how much of it goes back to him listing him a can’t miss star. 

Would say a ton of it falls on him saying he was at the top of the list of guys that weren't yet in the NHL.  HIS 5 points in the 6 games he was up that year didn't hurt either on keeping expectations high.

Still think he makes it and there's a better than even chance he's a 2C rather than a 3C/3W.  He never should've been forced into a 2C role 1 year after being drafted.  Especially w/ no top 6 talent next to him.  Too much, too quick.  Look at how long it took Connolly to recover from getting that kind of usage from the Aisles and actually learn to play the position.  For all the woes on D, had he not gotten Schaeffered, the Sabres probably still win the SC that year even with Campbell, Lyman, & AHLers on D.  And people were still willing to ship him out of town on a rail when the '05-'06 season started.

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would say a ton of it falls on him saying he was at the top of the list of guys that weren't yet in the NHL.  HIS 5 points in the 6 games he was up that year didn't hurt either on keeping expectations high.

Still think he makes it and there's a better than even chance he's a 2C rather than a 3C/3W.  He never should've been forced into a 2C role 1 year after being drafted.  Especially w/ no top 6 talent next to him.  Too much, too quick.  Look at how long it took Connolly to recover from getting that kind of usage from the Aisles and actually learn to play the position.  For all the woes on D, had he not gotten Schaeffered, the Sabres probably still win the SC that year even with Campbell, Lyman, & AHLers on D.  And people were still willing to ship him out of town on a rail when the '05-'06 season started.

Would say a ton of it falls on him saying he was at the top of the list of guys that weren't yet in the NHL.  HIS 5 points in the 6 games he was up that year didn't hurt either on keeping expectations high.

Still think he makes it and there's a better than even chance he's a 2C rather than a 3C/3W.  He never should've been forced into a 2C role 1 year after being drafted.  Especially w/ no top 6 talent next to him.  Too much, too quick.  Look at how long it took Connolly to recover from getting that kind of usage from the Aisles and actually learn to play the position.  For all the woes on D, had he not gotten Schaeffered, the Sabres probably still win the SC that year even with Campbell, Lyman, & AHLers on D.  And people were still willing to ship him out of town on a rail when the '05-'06 season started.

Most likely result is Mittelstadt fills the role of our 2nd most important forward position? That's bold. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Taro T]

Just now, Thorny said:

Most likely result is Mittelstadt is our second best C? That's bold. 

No.  Said, most likely result is he's A 2C.  Whether he plays as the 2C or as the 3C, expect his talent will peak as a low end 2C.

Would expect Cozens to peak as a 2C as well, but as a higher end 2C.  And he may very well find himself at 1RW when all is said & done though my guess would be he'll be the 2C.

Am expecting Asplund will top out at a 3C or 4C and have him LT lightly pencilled in at 4C.  Ruotsalainen is an interesting add to the mix as well.  Haven't seen near enough of him to guess where he tops out.  Could see anything from washout to 2C as really have seen very little of his game.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No.  Said, most likely result is he's A 2C.  Whether he plays as the 2C or as the 3C, expect his talent will peak as a low end 2C.

Would expect Cozens to peak as a 2C as well, but as a higher end 2C.  And he may very well find himself at 1RW when all is said & done though my guess would be he'll be the 2C.

Am expecting Asplund will top out at a 3C or 4C and have him LT lightly pencilled in at 4C.  Ruotsalainen is an interesting add to the mix as well.  Haven't seen near enough of him to guess where he tops out.  Could see anything from washout to 2C as really have seen very little of his game.

I knew you'd parse this that's why I edited haha

I did however take "he's a 2C" to mean "he's a 2C" rather than having the talent of a 2C. 

Regardless, it comes to the same thing, semantics aside - if he has the talent of a 2C, that would mean he has the ability to be that forward for a team that I said. It could happen, but for that to be the MOST LIKELY result at this point would I say is pretty optimistic. 

I'm not even sure if that was the MOST likely scenario at the time he was drafted. I think that was closer to his ceiling. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I knew you'd parse this that's why I edited. 

I did however take "he's a 2C" to mean "he's a 2C" rather than having the talent of a 2C. 

Regardless, it comes to the same thing, semantics aside - if he has the talent of a 2C, that would mean he has the ability to be that forward for a team that I said. It could happen, but for that to be the MOST LIKELY result at this point would I say is pretty optimistic. 

Perhaps it is overly optimistic.  Time will tell. 

But expect there's a far better chance of that than him washing out like most here seem to expect.

And, your statement above would imply you consider Malkin, even at his peak a few years back, to be a 2C because that's what he was for Pittsburgh; rather than the 1C that most everybody considered him to be.  If that's an accurate restatement, then your position is consistent.  If it isn't, then why would Malkin playing 2C not be held against him but should Cozens (or other) be the 2C though Mittelstadt could wind up at a Jordan Staal talent level that end up being held against him?

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Perhaps it is overly optimistic.  Time will tell. 

But expect there's a far better chance of that than him washing out like most here seem to expect.

And, your statement above would imply you consider Malkin, even at his peak a few years back, to be a 2C because that's what he was for Pittsburgh; rather than the 1C that most everybody considered him to be.  If that's an accurate restatement, then your position is consistent.  If it isn't, then why would Malkin playing 2C not be held against him but should Cozens (or other) be the 2C though Mittelstadt could wind up at a Jordan Staal talent level that end up being held against him?

It's more of a all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, thing. 

You have to have (should have) a certain minimum ability requirement to play the position, but 2Cs can of course exceed that level. 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It's more of a all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, thing. 

You have to have (should have) a certain minimum ability requirement to play the position, but 2Cs can of course exceed that level. 

And my expectation is it is more likely than not that when he's in his prime he meets or exceeds that minimum ability.  You don't share that opinion.  It's cool.  🍺

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And my expectation is it is more likely than not that when he's in his prime he meets or exceeds that minimum ability.  You don't share that opinion.  It's cool.  🍺

Yup. I'm more in the middle ground - as I've mentioned I see him ending up as ~3LW. Respectable. 

Lots have written him off. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I don't think it's unreasonable to have watched Mitts look completely lost and ineffective last year and as a result to be pessimistic about his NHL future.  I agree though that he could still develop into a good player and that there is no reason to give up on him yet -- they should keep him until his contract/waiver situation requires them to make a decision on him, or until they trade for a good player and Mitts is needed as a piece in that deal.

I never said the some pessimism isn't justified.  However when Chris Taylor said he worked hard and improved and then RK verified those facts and said he earned a recall to the Sabres, I think some of that pessimism is misplaced.  If he was 24 and not performing at the AHL like Baptiste and Bailey, that's one thing, but a 22 year who just got a legit vote of confidence from his coaches after performing well in the AHL is another. 

 

[I-90 W]

Why aren’t we really hearing anything about JJ Peterka? He had a strong showing on an otherwise weak German team in WJC. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, I-90 W said:

Why aren’t we really hearing anything about JJ Peterka? He had a strong showing on an otherwise weak German team in WJC. 

Peterka went back to play for his club team.  He wasn’t going to make the Sabres and he had somewhere else to be where he is playing actual games.

[Brawndo]