Weave Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 3:49 PM, LGR4GM said: Didn't ruffle them. You flat out lied. They are on the same level. Expand Not in the eyes of most of the rest of the league that doesn't have your bias or emotional attachment. AM is a superstar in most eyes and Jack is a tier below is most views outside of Sabres fandom. 2
Thorner Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) On 3/12/2021 at 5:07 PM, Weave said: Not in the eyes of most of the rest of the league that doesn't have your bias or emotional attachment. AM is a superstar in most eyes and Jack is a tier below is most views outside of Sabres fandom. Expand This wasn't the view at large last season. Jack finished higher than AM in MVP voting Last year was Jack's coming out party. Now he's gone back in lol Additionally, lists like the NHL Network Top centres list had Jack 6th https://www.diebytheblade.com/2020/7/22/21326611/nhl-network-ranks-jack-eichel-as-the-sixth-best-center-in-the-nhl-buffalo-sabres in the league. AM was 5th. Bergeron was 7th. Edited March 12, 2021 by Thorny
LGR4GM Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) On 3/12/2021 at 5:07 PM, Weave said: Not in the eyes of most of the rest of the league that doesn't have your bias or emotional attachment. AM is a superstar in most eyes and Jack is a tier below is most views outside of Sabres fandom. Expand Not sure how much more emotionally unattached one can get with the Sabres but they literally have the exact same stats. Their PPG going into this season is identical. It's quite obvious that you are emotional as your comment relies on "feeling" more than any rational analysis. Is Matthews having a better 2021, absolutely. Has Eichel been playing the season injured, seems to be what we have learned. Has there been a statistical difference in either of the last 2 seasons, nope. But sure, Eichel isn't considered on the same level in the league... that makes sense. Idk who outside of leafs fandom look down on Eichel. Considering the national media all talk about Eichel as a first line center seems like he's thought of pretty well around the league. Edited March 12, 2021 by LGR4GM
LGR4GM Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 5:08 PM, Thorny said: This wasn't the view at large last season. Jack finished higher than AM in MVP voting Last year was Jack's coming out party. Now he's gone back in lol Additionally, lists like the NHL Network Top centres list had Jack 6th https://www.diebytheblade.com/2020/7/22/21326611/nhl-network-ranks-jack-eichel-as-the-sixth-best-center-in-the-nhl-buffalo-sabres in the league. AM was 5th. Bergeron was 7th. Expand Weave is experiencing recency bias in which he attributes Eichel playing the year injured and in a bad system to Eichel being thought of as not a superstar player. It defies logic as I have pointed out considering most in the league would note Eichel's worse team, greater responsibility, and equal point production and conclude at a minimum that Eichel is in the same tier of talent as Matthews... which he is. Really the point production alone puts them in the same place. For the past 2 years they have scored at identical numbers. We are talking 2 years ago in a full 82 game season 1 point difference and last year none.
Sabre fan Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 yikes I did not mean to start a big debate about who's better! I do think however that maybe what I meant to say is it seems both McDavid and Mathews are more driven then Jack. Jack seems to do well when it comes either easily or naturally (like last year). But he certainly does not seem driven as are those other two guys. And throwing temper tantrums is no way to lead a team I think...just my opinion
LGR4GM Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 5:52 PM, Sabre fan said: yikes I did not mean to start a big debate about who's better! I do think however that maybe what I meant to say is it seems both McDavid and Mathews are more driven then Jack. Jack seems to do well when it comes either easily or naturally (like last year). But he certainly does not seem driven as are those other two guys. And throwing temper tantrums is no way to lead a team I think...just my opinion Expand Please show us Eichel throwing a temper tantrum and again Matthews isn't the captain of his team. Also Eichel isn't driven? Please show proof or give examples at the minimum for how he is not.
Weave Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 5:36 PM, LGR4GM said: Weave is experiencing recency bias in which he attributes Eichel playing the year injured and in a bad system to Eichel being thought of as not a superstar player. It defies logic as I have pointed out considering most in the league would note Eichel's worse team, greater responsibility, and equal point production and conclude at a minimum that Eichel is in the same tier of talent as Matthews... which he is. Really the point production alone puts them in the same place. For the past 2 years they have scored at identical numbers. We are talking 2 years ago in a full 82 game season 1 point difference and last year none. Expand No, I am recalling all of the national US and CA sportswriters and "experts" that consistently have Matthews ahead of Jack in their rankings and ratings. the members of this forum piss and moan about those articles with extreme regularity. You know, the folks with actual bias. To be honest, I don't have ***** for first hand knowledge of AM's game because the Sabres have made watching other NHL teams disinteresting to me. I watched because I was deeply interested in how we match up across the league. I lost that interest almost 10 years ago now. No hard to figure out why. So, no, no reccency bias here, just the intake of information provided by people without a rooting interest.
LGR4GM Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 6:42 PM, Weave said: No, I am recalling all of the national US and CA sportswriters and "experts" that consistently have Matthews ahead of Jack in their rankings and ratings. the members of this forum piss and moan about those articles with extreme regularity. You know, the folks with actual bias. To be honest, I don't have ***** for first hand knowledge of AM's game because the Sabres have made watching other NHL teams disinteresting to me. I watched because I was deeply interested in how we match up across the league. I lost that interest almost 10 years ago now. No hard to figure out why. So, no, no reccency bias here, just the intake of information provided by people without a rooting interest. Expand So you are talking about rankings not talent level? Those are 2 different things with different outcomes.
Weave Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 7:27 PM, LGR4GM said: So you are talking about rankings not talent level? Those are 2 different things with different outcomes. Expand I never used the word talent. Jack oozes with talent. I'm not sure why he doesn't look like a superstar on the ice more often. Or why the people that are paid to watch and report hockey think he doesn't bring it like AM does.
LGR4GM Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) On 3/12/2021 at 7:54 PM, Weave said: I never used the word talent. Jack oozes with talent. I'm not sure why he doesn't look like a superstar on the ice more often. Or why the people that are paid to watch and report hockey think he doesn't bring it like AM does. Expand What level then are we talking about? Level of recognition by Toronto reporters? You said they are not on the same level, so what "level" are you using to measure Jack Eichel and Auston Matthews? What people don't think Eichel brings it? Why didn't this get debated last year when they had the EXACT same numbers? Edited March 12, 2021 by LGR4GM
Weave Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 8:14 PM, LGR4GM said: What level then are we talking about? Level of recognition by Toronto reporters? You said they are not on the same level, so what "level" are you using to measure Jack Eichel and Auston Matthews? What people don't think Eichel brings it? Why didn't this get debated last year when they had the EXACT same numbers? Expand It's more than Toronto reporting. I know that you want to write it off a such, but assuming that is assuming that all their writing is agenda driven. I don't buy it. It's too convenient. And I've already told you I have no first hand knowledge of AM, so I don't know what you are expecting for an answer here. My point was a simple one. Around the league, people that get paid to discuss these things almost universally put AM higher than Jack. Read into it whatever you want. And BS this didn't get debated last year. AM vs. Jack was a frequent discussion point in last season's around the NHL thread. And I don't have the give a ***** level to back that up.
Norcal Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 Hey Kevyn...trades are happening all around you
IKnowPhysics Posted March 12, 2021 Report Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 8:53 PM, Norcal said: Hey Kevyn...trades are happening all around you Expand This is a good thing. Open the trade deadline floodgates early. 1
Claude Balls Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 8:53 PM, Norcal said: Hey Kevyn...trades are happening all around you Expand Vehvilainen is prolly better than any goalie on the Sabres currently.
Andrew Amerk Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 12:28 AM, Claude Balls said: Vehvilainen is prolly better than any goalie on the Sabres currently. Expand Who?
Claude Balls Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) On 3/13/2021 at 3:10 AM, Andrew Amerk said: Who? Expand Well, his name starts with a V, so I'm just going by that alone. Vasilevsky, Varlomov.....both better than anything in the Sabres organization. Edited March 13, 2021 by Claude Balls 1
Andrew Amerk Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 3:16 AM, Claude Balls said: Well, his name starts with a V, so I'm just going by that alone. Vasilevsky, Varlomov.....both better than anything in the Sabres organization. Expand I mean, this logic sounds more sound than anything Sabres management is doing. 1
Norcal Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 Watched Minnesota Arizona tonight, 2015 5th round rookie Kirill the Thrill Kaprizov with the hat trick. Talbot shut out Arizona stealing several saves early. Watching competent goaltending is depressing.
SwampD Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) On 3/13/2021 at 4:06 AM, Norcal said: Watched Minnesota Arizona tonight, 2015 5th round rookie Kirill the Thrill Kaprizov with the hat trick. Talbot shut out Arizona stealing several saves early. Watching competent goaltending is depressing. Expand Watching competent goaltending that we had is even tougher. Cal Peterson. Because Goaltenders take so long to develop, until we are personally good, drafting one from the NCAA is dumb. Edited March 13, 2021 by SwampD
#freejame Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 4:14 AM, SwampD said: Watching competent goaltending that we had is even tougher. Cal Peterson. Because Goaltenders take so long to develop, until we are personally good, drafting one from the NCAA is dumb. Expand Or at least from schools not as academically sound as Notre Dame. Petersen saw what was coming from a mile away. Too bad SEC hockey is limited to Huntsville.
Thorner Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) On 3/12/2021 at 7:27 PM, LGR4GM said: So you are talking about rankings not talent level? Those are 2 different things with different outcomes. Expand The rankings last year generally had Eichel on the same tier as AM. Always within a couple spots of each other Jack was on that level last year and considered to be so league wide, it wasn’t a Sabres-fan-wishful-thinking thing. Edited March 13, 2021 by Thorny
PerreaultForever Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 4:14 AM, SwampD said: Watching competent goaltending that we had is even tougher. Cal Peterson. Because Goaltenders take so long to develop, until we are personally good, drafting one from the NCAA is dumb. Expand I've said this before and will keep saying it. You should draft a goalie every single year. They are the key to any successful franchise and you simply cannot end up with too many good ones. If you do, you trade them like CBJ just did. Always in demand. and because of the long development you can hit big with late picks on goalies too. We have a dumbass organization. 4
#freejame Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 7:58 AM, PerreaultForever said: I've said this before and will keep saying it. You should draft a goalie every single year. They are the key to any successful franchise and you simply cannot end up with too many good ones. If you do, you trade them like CBJ just did. Always in demand. and because of the long development you can hit big with late picks on goalies too. We have a dumbass organization. Expand There is so much “hockey 101” that we don’t abided by. Makes no sense to me. 1
LGR4GM Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 8:22 PM, Weave said: It's more than Toronto reporting. I know that you want to write it off a such, but assuming that is assuming that all their writing is agenda driven. I don't buy it. It's too convenient. And I've already told you I have no first hand knowledge of AM, so I don't know what you are expecting for an answer here. My point was a simple one. Around the league, people that get paid to discuss these things almost universally put AM higher than Jack. Read into it whatever you want. And BS this didn't get debated last year. AM vs. Jack was a frequent discussion point in last season's around the NHL thread. And I don't have the give a ***** level to back that up. Expand This is a great Ralph Krueger style non-answer.
Curt Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 7:58 AM, PerreaultForever said: I've said this before and will keep saying it. You should draft a goalie every single year. They are the key to any successful franchise and you simply cannot end up with too many good ones. If you do, you trade them like CBJ just did. Always in demand. and because of the long development you can hit big with late picks on goalies too. We have a dumbass organization. Expand On 3/13/2021 at 12:21 PM, #freejame said: There is so much “hockey 101” that we don’t abided by. Makes no sense to me. Expand Yes, teams should draft a goalie almost every year, or at least 3/4 years. I agree with this, but the Sabres have drafted quite a lot of goalies. That’s why there is Ullmark, Cal Peterson (who they lost), Johansson, UPL, and Portillo. If they hadn’t lost Peterson, the goalie situation would look like excellent. 1
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