Free Agent Frenzy! Oct 9, 2020

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

We still have two young superstars, three or four other high end talents and a coach I believe in. This team is a goaltender and a top 6 forward away. And believe it or not, they are out there and the Sabre’s could be the last team standing with the ability to acquire.

Still a lot of shoes to drop.

Hall, Pietrangelo, Granlund, Toffoli, Vatanen, Hoffman, Greene, Galchenyuk, Dadonov, Kulikov, Namestnikov, Hamonic, Grabner, Athanisiou, Haula, Wilson, Forbert, Thornton, Lewis, Chara, Duclair, Clifford, Kahun, Leivo, Caggiula, Hutton, Mueller, Rutta, Gustafson, Bowey, Boyle, Sheahan, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Wallmark...

And if we miss out on the good ones, there are still cap dumps to come.

We aren’t a destination, so we need to be patient.

Edited October 11, 2020 by dudacek

[Billznut]

1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

10 years of shart hockey and a skate in the crease can do that to some people. 

Exactly. This team and ownership deserve EVERY derisive comment and then some that it gets here. 

[steveoath]

Bogosian is a  Leaf now.

[SABRES 0311]

Busy with work but seems like KA is taking it slow. I really thought Kahun would’ve been signed.

[Radar]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

Still a lot of shoes to drop.

Hall, Pietrangelo, Granlund, Toffoli, Vatanen, Hoffman, Greene, Galchenyuk, Dadonov, Kulikov, Namestnikov, Hamonic, Grabner, Athanisiou, Haula, Wilson, Forbert, Thornton, Lewis, Chara, Duclair, Clifford, Kahun, Leivo, Caggiula, Hutton, Mueller, Rutta, Gustafson, Bowey, Boyle, Sheahan, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Wallmark...

And if we miss out on the good ones, there are still cap dumps to come.

We aren’t a destination, so we need to be patient.

I agree logistically. I'm pessimistic over this because of what I've seen in the past. The best GM Pegula has had he inherited. The best coach he's had he inherited. The best team he's had he inherited. Every hire he's made for this team....failed. He hires a totally inexperienced GM to right a sinking ship. Could Adams work out? Sure it's possible. All I know is his previous ones didn't. Now this is to say nothing about the Lafontaine debauchery. Where party's were paid not to talk. Added together that makes me very uncomfortable with Pegulas operations.

[Cal Naughton Jr]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

Still a lot of shoes to drop.

Hall, Pietrangelo, Granlund, Toffoli, Vatanen, Hoffman, Greene, Galchenyuk, Dadonov, Kulikov, Namestnikov, Hamonic, Grabner, Athanisiou, Haula, Wilson, Forbert, Thornton, Lewis, Chara, Duclair, Clifford, Kahun, Leivo, Caggiula, Hutton, Mueller, Rutta, Gustafson, Bowey, Boyle, Sheahan, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Wallmark...

And if we miss out on the good ones, there are still cap dumps to come.

We aren’t a destination, so we need to be patient.

So you’re staying we still have plenty more time to be disappointed?

[LTS]

8 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It’s a form of entertainment, an escape, a release. Most of us work jobs all day that we may or may not like. Come home to families and bills and other stressors. 
 

We want the team we love and have been backing for 2, or 5, or 50 years to give us some sort of positive distraction from our lives. Some entertainment. To continually keep witnessing a sh!t show is very disheartening. 

You underscore my thinking.  You want the team to be a positive distraction but at what point do you realize that perhaps this team isn't going to be that and hasn't been that for you? They are on a 9 year drought from the playoffs and have been pretty much a miserable wreck.  

So, the thing you hope to be that positive distraction is anything but, so now it just adds to the rest of the supposed misery and is not a release. Instead it's amplifying the other issues.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

Still a lot of shoes to drop.

Hall, Pietrangelo, Granlund, Toffoli, Vatanen, Hoffman, Greene, Galchenyuk, Dadonov, Kulikov, Namestnikov, Hamonic, Grabner, Athanisiou, Haula, Wilson, Forbert, Thornton, Lewis, Chara, Duclair, Clifford, Kahun, Leivo, Caggiula, Hutton, Mueller, Rutta, Gustafson, Bowey, Boyle, Sheahan, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Wallmark...

And if we miss out on the good ones, there are still cap dumps to come.

We aren’t a destination, so we need to be patient.

So you mean more scraps that fall off the table to add to our bottom feeding roster.  Unless some D are traded, they probably aren't going to spend anymore.  We are at 72 Million with the RFA contract to come for Ullmark, Reinhart and VO.  I'd love a further upgrade at forward but I don't see that coming at this point.

[Scottysabres]

3 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Busy with work but seems like KA is taking it slow. I really thought Kahun would’ve been signed.

Given the comments in the past that the Pegulas want players that "want to be here", I have come to the conclusion that Kahun expressed a desire to test the market and they honored that.

That's really the only conclusion I have come to at this time. But who knows.

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you mean more scraps that fall off the table to add to our bottom feeding roster.  Unless some D are traded, they probably aren't going to spend anymore.  We are at 72 Million with the RFA contract to come for Ullmark, Reinhart and VO.  I'd love a further upgrade at forward but I don't see that coming at this point.

How do you get to 72 million?

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Toffoli and Hoffman are waiting for Hall to make His Decision per David Pagnotta. Those teams that miss out will be first in line 

If we're smart we should undercut them now and go hard after Toffoli. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

41 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you mean more scraps that fall off the table to add to our bottom feeding roster.  Unless some D are traded, they probably aren't going to spend anymore.  We are at 72 Million with the RFA contract to come for Ullmark, Reinhart and VO.  I'd love a further upgrade at forward but I don't see that coming at this point.

If by scraps you mean players like Andreas Johnsson and Ryan Murray, (or Killorn or Raantta or Schmaltz or Fleury) sure.

The Hawks are probably our only competition for Fleury. They have $8 million in space and still have to sign Strome.

The Hurricanes (with an outside interest in Fleury), Canucks, Flyers, Avalanche and Bruins each have maybe $5 million to spend in UFA, assuming they are going to the cap. The Panthers the Kings and maybe the Rangers have a little more. 

The Predators, Devils Senators, Red Wings and us are the only teams with significant cap space. Everybody else is pretty much done, or needing to offload contracts in order to make a significant signing.

At the other end, you have St. Louis, Arizona, Anaheim, Washington Tampa, St. Louis and probably the Islanders who have to dump contracts. There may be more depending on internal caps.

Basically if the Sabres have a firm $70-72 million cap, you are right. If they don’t, well good things come to those who wait.

Edited October 11, 2020 by dudacek

[French Collection]

I will take Toffoli at this point but I hope it isn’t a deal that is too long. His numbers are similar to KOs and would hate to see more than 5 years to get TT signed. 
 

I know KO has had health issues but those contracts seem long for guys approaching 30.

If they get Toffoli, can Zemgus be the veteran/defensive conscience on a 3rd line with Cozens and Thompson?

Trade a RD for a LD and get some kind of goalie upgrade and they are close.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

18 hours ago, Thorny said:

To be fair I haven't see a player of Girgs abilities sign for what he did, aside from him. 

I agree.  Pre COVID the deal he got would be the market value, or there abouts.  The Sabres did reward him for his loyalty and they like his game better than Larry's, but if Zemgus left they probably would have offered a similar deal to Larry.

18 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

You think Girgs would have received that salary and term if he signed elsewhere?   I’d bet the house that it never happens. 

No.  Not this FA period.  Last year (pre COVID) ... probably.

[jahnyc]

I know it is still early in the free agency period, but it is hard to not feel discouraged.  Seems that not only have we not signed a player that would be a significant upgrade at a position of need, we have re-signed or signed players at above what should be their current market value.  This is a bad combination and does not bode well for the upcoming season.

 

[Radar]

3 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

I know it is still early in the free agency period, but it is hard to not feel discouraged.  Seems that not only have we not signed a player that would be a significant upgrade at a position of need, we have re-signed or signed players at above what should be their current market value.  This is a bad combination and does not bode well for the upcoming season.

 

I fear this as well.

[Cal Naughton Jr]

10 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

I know it is still early in the free agency period, but it is hard to not feel discouraged.  Seems that not only have we not signed a player that would be a significant upgrade at a position of need, we have re-signed or signed players at above what should be their current market value.  This is a bad combination and does not bode well for the upcoming season.

 

I need to know that we are at least trying to sign a marquee player. I get that we are not a desirable destination but the fan base needs to now that they are putting in an effort to improve the team

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

Still a lot of shoes to drop.

Hall, Pietrangelo, Granlund, Toffoli, Vatanen, Hoffman, Greene, Galchenyuk, Dadonov, Kulikov, Namestnikov, Hamonic, Grabner, Athanisiou, Haula, Wilson, Forbert, Thornton, Lewis, Chara, Duclair, Clifford, Kahun, Leivo, Caggiula, Hutton, Mueller, Rutta, Gustafson, Bowey, Boyle, Sheahan, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Wallmark...

And if we miss out on the good ones, there are still cap dumps to come.

We aren’t a destination, so we need to be patient.

It takes courage to be patient. As you point out there will be some good value picks that will become available that could make our roster better. It shouldn't be surprising that sometimes the cheaper and lesser talent is a better value acquisition than the more expensive talent. It allows you more flexibility to address other needs than if a more expensive player was acquired that would limit your options to address other needs. 

The normal contract expectation for the mid-tier players (good players) is different than what it was prior to the virus era. It's like musical chairs for this large group of players. They are risking being left out of the money grab if they wait too long for the future better deals that don't materialize. Organizations that know how to be patient and selective will be able to adjust to this turbulent and unsettling environment.

Just because fans panic to the moment  shouldn't mean that smart front offices should get caught up in the frenzy. 

[Trettioåtta]

One thing people are forgetting is roster space - we have signed five guys to NHL contracts. The that's 3-5 roster places gone. Even if Wennberg, Fast etc. were available. We wouldn't be signing them. The fact is, our roster is pretty much full now - its just rather than chose to fill the gaps with top players, or under-the-radar players, we have filled it with bargain discount players.

Olof - Eichel - Reino

Skinner - Staal - Cozens

Thompson - Eakins - Okposo

Girgensons - Lazar - Reider

We may see one more signing - dependent on Casey and the management's assessment of him. Otherwise I can't see us doing too much more in FA. We have 8D too.

Pretty much all the goalies are off the market too. Possible trade obviously, but someone did post saying management had said they didnt view upgrading goalie as high priority

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

One thing people are forgetting is roster space - we have signed five guys to NHL contracts. The that's 3-5 roster places gone. Even if Wennberg, Fast etc. were available. We wouldn't be signing them. The fact is, our roster is pretty much full now - its just rather than chose to fill the gaps with top players, or under-the-radar players, we have filled it with bargain discount players.

Olof - Eichel - Reino

Skinner - Staal - Cozens

Thompson - Eakins - Okposo

Girgensons - Lazar - Reider

We may see one more signing - dependent on Casey and the management's assessment of him. Otherwise I can't see us doing too much more in FA. We have 8D too.

Pretty much all the goalies are off the market too. Possible trade obviously, but someone did post saying management had said they didnt view upgrading goalie as high priority

Not sure what 5 you are talking about, but Reider, Irwin and Davidson are minimum wagers who don't have to take up a roster spot any more than John Gilmore or JS Dea did. Eakin replaces Larsson.

Now, I think Reider gets the spot vacated by Frolik, but we still have yet to fill the spots vacated by Vesey, Kahun, and Simmonds. It might be Thompson, Cozens, Mittelstadt and Asplund, but the latter three can all still get sent down, and I doubt they'd be too worried about waiving Lazar as well.

As for the bolded, I certainly have never heard that, let alone directly from the Sabres management.

Edited October 11, 2020 by dudacek

[Scottysabres]

21 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

One thing people are forgetting is roster space - we have signed five guys to NHL contracts. The that's 3-5 roster places gone. Even if Wennberg, Fast etc. were available. We wouldn't be signing them. The fact is, our roster is pretty much full now - its just rather than chose to fill the gaps with top players, or under-the-radar players, we have filled it with bargain discount players.

Olof - Eichel - Reino

Skinner - Staal - Cozens

Thompson - Eakins - Okposo

Girgensons - Lazar - Reider

We may see one more signing - dependent on Casey and the management's assessment of him. Otherwise I can't see us doing too much more in FA. We have 8D too.

Pretty much all the goalies are off the market too. Possible trade obviously, but someone did post saying management had said they didnt view upgrading goalie as high priority

Why is Cousins in that line up?

There's been no confirmed statement from the organization he will definitely be in Buffalo for the up coming season.

[JohnC]

20 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

One thing people are forgetting is roster space - we have signed five guys to NHL contracts. The that's 3-5 roster places gone. Even if Wennberg, Fast etc. were available. We wouldn't be signing them. The fact is, our roster is pretty much full now - its just rather than chose to fill the gaps with top players, or under-the-radar players, we have filled it with bargain discount players.

Olof - Eichel - Reino

Skinner - Staal - Cozens

Thompson - Eakins - Okposo

Girgensons - Lazar - Reider

We may see one more signing - dependent on Casey and the management's assessment of him. Otherwise I can't see us doing too much more in FA. We have 8D too.

Pretty much all the goalies are off the market too. Possible trade obviously, but someone did post saying management had said they didnt view upgrading goalie as high priority

Marty Biron who is frequently on WGR has stated on numerous occasions that he didn't believe that addressing the goalie situation should be a priority. His repeated lamentation was that the organization needed to bring in players and develop players within the system who can score. I'm sure the organization would not be adverse to upgrade the backup goalie but if they couldn't it do for a reasonable price they probably wouldn't do it. 

Others have brought up the possibility of bringing in Fleury with the hope that Vegas would pay some of the contract and take Hutton. If the Sabres then dealt a player such as Montour or Miller for picks, saving on a contract, that a Fleury deal was not an outlandish thought. Upgrading the goalie position would make a big difference.   

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

How do you get to 72 million?

10 forwards - Eichel, Skinner, KO, Staal, Eakin, Thompson, Girgensons, Lazar, Rieder and Cozens - 36.5 mill

7 Defense - Montour, Ristolainen, Miller, McCabe, Dahlin, Jokiharju and Davidson - 18.525

Goalies - Hutton - 2.75

RfAS to sign - Reinhart (6.5), VO (4) and Ullmark (3) - 13.5

CoHo buyout - 800K

Total - 72.075 million.

[Brawndo]

 

[freester]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

10 forwards - Eichel, Skinner, KO, Staal, Eakin, Thompson, Girgensons, Lazar, Rieder and Cozens - 36.5 mill

7 Defense - Montour, Ristolainen, Miller, McCabe, Dahlin, Jokiharju and Davidson - 18.525

Goalies - Hutton - 2.75

RfAS to sign - Reinhart (6.5), VO (4) and Ullmark (3) - 13.5

CoHo buyout - 800K

Total - 72.075 million.

What about the over the cap penalty?