Sabres Do Not Qualify Kahun

[DarthEbriate]

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

How else do SabreSpacers get married?

Win a big race, save your love's planet from invasion, be estranged for 10 years, upon reunion get all clingy and creepy, murder some natives, and lose an arm... voila: wedding bells!

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

Long list of players not qualified with names still rolling in.

Kahun definitely one of the more interesting names, but here are some more:

Remi Elie, Matthew Spencer, Brandon Hickey

Vinnie Hinostroza

Brett Ritchie

Mark Jankowski

Slater Koekkoek, Malcolm Subban

Devin Shore,

Madison Bowey, Brendan Perlini

Andreas Athanasiou, Matthew Benning,

Mirco Mueller

Anthony Duclair, Jayce Hawryluk

Dominik Simon,

Jake Dotchin, Derrick Pouliot

Carter Verhaeghe

Jeremy Bracco, Frederik Gauthier, Evan Rodrigues,

Troy Stecher

Nick Cousins

Of the players on the list you cited which players do you consider the most appealing? Duclair?????

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Will this be the biggest blunder since DR failed to send the fax in on time? (Trades exempted).

How is this any worse than not qualifying Robin Lehner?

People give Botterill a pass there because of the mental health issues, but it was clearly the wrong decision; an off-season of rehab, he was was back on top of his game immediately. 

How is his situation any different than if he had finished 2018 playing poorly due to a chronic shoulder injury?

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

Yeh but why not qualify, the can always walk away from arbitration unless both sides were so far apart Sabres decided to call his bluff because they felt it better negotiation wise to let Kahun see others sign for much less...  wonder if it was term or amount or both.

No, you can only walk away if the decision comes in over a threshold value.  When the ladt CBA was signed, the threshold was $3.5MM.  It is now apparently ~$4.1MM.  And you can only walk away from 1 of every 2 awards (hello Montour or Olofsson).

So, if the Sabres believe a fair offer is $2.5MM/yr and they can live with $3MM/yr but the arbitrator could come back w/ $3.9MM and now they have to live with it or buy him out.

Not at all happy they've gone this way; but there was a real possibility he could get a deal more than they've slotted him in for and would then have that working into all their negotiations.

Nobody knows fully what the landscape will be like next season.  Caution actually isn't a bad thing at present.  As annoying as it may be.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

How is this any worse than not qualifying Robin Lehner?

People give Botterill a pass there because of the mental health issues, but it was clearly the wrong decision; an off-season of rehab, he was was back on top of his game immediately. 

How is his situation any different than if he had finished 2018 playing poorly due to a chronic shoulder injury?

The Lehner deal was right for that moment in time.  They'd've had to lock in a big money deal & could've very realistically still had the PTSD version of Lehner with none of the demons under control.   Imagine how fun it would've been to have no ROR AND been locked into post eye disorder Hutton for 2 full years.  (Not sure if a 2 year deal was available to Lehner, but for sake of argument.)

And just because he got past them in a new city w/ a fresh start, there's no guarantee it would've worked out that way where the nightmares happened.

[Broken Ankles]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

How is this any worse than not qualifying Robin Lehner?

People give Botterill a pass there because of the mental health issues, but it was clearly the wrong decision; an off-season of rehab, he was was back on top of his game immediately. 

How is his situation any different than if he had finished 2018 playing poorly due to a chronic shoulder injury?

Not sure this is true.  He was motivated in a one year prove it deal with the NYI and played well, or shall I say the team in front of him played better than the Sabres had in the previous three years.   The fact that the best opportunity in front of him yielded a $1.5M AAV, far less than his QO in Buffalo would have been indicates what ALL GM's thought of his value at the time.   The fact JB may have been privy to more  of his outside hockey problems only confirms the right decision was made.   Other factors to consider - he was seen rightly or wrongly, tied to a horrible trade losing a valuable first round pick in 2015, and Linus was progressing in his own right and probably was deserved of his own opportunity.   JB's decisions were mostly indefensible.  Not this one. 

[PerreaultForever]

17 hours ago, WildCard said:

Adams can suck my balls 

is he qualified for that? 

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

is he qualified for that? 

The standards are pretty low

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

How is this any worse than not qualifying Robin Lehner?

People give Botterill a pass there because of the mental health issues, but it was clearly the wrong decision; an off-season of rehab, he was was back on top of his game immediately. 

How is his situation any different than if he had finished 2018 playing poorly due to a chronic shoulder injury?

Complete apples to oranges. Kahun is healthy.  No one had any idea whether Lehner would ever comeback and if he did would he be effective.  He also had a brutal health history including concussions.  

[dudacek]

What do we think Kahun will be offered if he hits the open market?

[Ogelthorpe]

Anyone have thoughts on Subban? Is that someone Sabres should be interested in ?

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Anyone have thoughts on Subban? Is that someone Sabres should be interested in ?

For an AHL 3rd goalie maybe?

[LabattBlue]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Of the players on the list you cited which players do you consider the most appealing? Duclair?????

Kahun. 😉

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Kahun. 😉

I also like Kahun. At what price are you willing to go? 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

What do we think Kahun will be offered if he hits the open market?

3.5 m

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

What do we think Kahun will be offered if he hits the open market?

 

6 minutes ago, SwampD said:

3.5 m

Given the hockeynomics right now, I think he won't get more the $3 mill per yea for 3 seasons.  That said, he could take a short deal and bet on himself, say 2.5 for a season and see if the landscape improves  for 2022.  I haven't looked at his analytics in our zone, but his career shows 54% O zone starts and PT reduced to 12 minutes a night during his short stint here.  If he is thought of as lacking in 2 way play, I can see that reducing his market price as well.

Edited October 8, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[bob_sauve28]

52 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Anyone have thoughts on Subban? Is that someone Sabres should be interested in ?

If they did I wouldn't criticize the move. If we had him in Rochester last year ready for a call up last season might have been just that little better enough to squeak into playoffs. 

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I also like Kahun. At what price are you willing to go? 

Not sure. I’m just disappointed that on a team crying for top 6 talent, appears to have let a top 6(worst case top 9) talent walk away.  How much of that is on Kahun and his agent is yet TBD.  

Edited October 8, 2020 by LabattBlue

[Broken Ankles]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

is he qualified for that? 

He works for one Terrance Pegula, so of course he is.  The only one NOT Qualified is Kahun.  

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Not sure. I’m just disappointed that on a team crying for top 6 talent, appears to have let a top 6(worst case top 9) talent walk away.  How much of that is on Kahun and his agent is yet TBD.  

I consider Kahun more of a good third line player who at times can move up to the second line. I'm still hoping that a deal can get done. But the harsh reality is that for the next couple of years the economics of the game is going to be depressed. Almost every team in the league is going to make a lot of tough decisions that result in players being let go more because of financial reasons than performance reasons. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Not sure. I’m just disappointed that on a team crying for top 6 talent, appears to have let a top 6(worst case top 9) talent walk away.  How much of that is on Kahun and his agent is yet TBD.  

I think really top 9 but at this point he's definitely more talented than Tage. 

[Trettioåtta]

50 points is a first line player I believe (is top 30 for their position.) Kahun was on track for 45.

[JohnC]

50 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think really top 9 but at this point he's definitely more talented than Tage. 

I agree with you that right now he, the more experienced player,  probably is better than Tage. But the contract given to Tage is a three year deal at $1.4 AAV. So even if it is acknowledged that he is currently better that still doesn't make him a $4 M AAV player if that is the money range that is in discussion. 

There is another factor that has to be considered. It is widely assumed that the market is going to be flooded with players let go due to the harsh economics of the game. If that is the case then it is smart to be in a position to procure similar talent at a lesser cost with a shorter term. 

I like what I saw from Kahun last year. He can skate and he is a heady player. But his value is as a good third line player in a market soon flooded by many equally talented players. We shall soon see what the market dictates. 

[DarthEbriate]

I hope Kahun signs with us. It was a limited sample size but I liked what he brought. If he can do a modest 3-year/2.75 or 3x3 that gives stability during flat cap years that's better than a 1-year arbitration winning that nets him $4M. But likewise, if Toffoli were to sign here and it's in effect Kahun or Toffoli, I'm fine with that trade off.

I don't want to have to pencil Tage into the 2RW to start the season. That seems inappropriate for the needs of the team.

[Brawndo]