Sabres Do Not Qualify Kahun

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

He was on track for 45 points. Do people really not value that? Is he currently the third most productive UFA on the market 

There’s a few additional factors you are not mentioning.

Past performance is heavily valued in contract negotiations.

The flat cap will suppress any non-star player.

 

His career numbers are 37 pts in 82 games and then 31 pts In 56 games. He’s a 2/3 line tweener who hasn’t hit 20 goals yet.

His literal category is going to be heavily squeezed due to the flat cap since 1st liners are paid and 4th liners tend to be a combo of cheap and cap dumps. The remaining money is dispersed and you can’t afford Kahun if he were awarded 4mil without further weakening the rest of the roster

Edited October 7, 2020 by thewookie1

[Trettioåtta]

6 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

There’s a few additional factors you are not mentioning.

Past performance is heavily valued in contract negotiations.

The flat cap will suppress any non-star player.

That’s not really relevant. As we need to pay someone to replace him.

What UFA will play for $3 million and put up 45 or more points?

[Cascade Youth]

#internalcap

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

This really only works if you already have Sam and Killeen.

At the moment we have Okposo playing alongside Jack. If we sign Sam, Okposo is playing next to Staal

No, in my scenario you’ve agreed to the Killorn deal and told Tampa you just have to get your budget in order.

You want Killorn and Kahun, but you might have to make a value judgement between one or the other.

Im not suggesting this is what is happening, just that Adams is juggling a number of balls and probably has them prioritized.

We should be worried that Kahun isn’t priority, but let’s see where it goes.

[Trettioåtta]

Don’t get me wrong. I hope you are right and he tries the market and sees no shift and comes back for a 3/4 year contract around the $10 million mark.

but you only need one team to offer him a one year deal (he is good friends with Drai in Edmonton) and we have to find a 2RW and 3RW on the market

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

That’s not really relevant. As we need to pay someone to replace him.

What UFA will play for $3 million and put up 45 or more points?

With this cap situation I’d harbor a guess a few will have too or end up retiring 

Edited October 7, 2020 by thewookie1

[Trettioåtta]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

No, in my scenario you’ve agreed to the Killorn deal and told Tampa you just have to get your budget in order.

You want Killorn and Kahun, but you might have to make a value judgement between one or the other.

Im not suggesting this is what is happening, just that Adams is juggling a number of balls and probably has them prioritized.

We should be worried that Kahun isn’t priority, but let’s see where it goes.

The Sabres front office don’t get the benefit of the doubt on their moves anymore. At least not from me.

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

With this cap situation I’d harbor a guess a few will have too or end up retiring 

There are only a couple of them out there though

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Trettioåtta said:

Don’t get me wrong. I hope you are right and he tries the market and sees no shift and comes back for a 3/4 year contract around the $10 million mark.

but you only need one team to offer him a one year deal (he is good friends with Drai in Edmonton) and we have to find a 2RW and 3RW on the market

Thing is we can’t fall into that trap; if the Oilers wish to pay him 4.5 mil for 1 year then let him.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

The Sabres front office don’t get the benefit of the doubt on their moves anymore. At least not from me.

Four months and a half-dozen moves was all the grace period Adams deserved.

[Brawndo]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Say he’s got 12 million budgeted for RW and great deal on the table for Killorn.

Sam gets 6 and Killorn gets 4. You’ve got two left for Kahun. He wants 3. 

Do you rob 1 million from the Goalie budget, or do you sign Dominik Simon for 2 instead?

Then do not qualify Montour, that’s over Four Million right there. 

You still have Jokiharju, Risto and Miller in the Top Six. 

[bob_sauve28]

37 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Anthony Duclair (23g, 17a) was also not qualified by the Ottawa Senators sooooooo it's definitely and interesting world. 

Wow 

[Thorner]

Good stuff from Wawrow today to get the story out. It's pretty worrying. Still have to judge based on whether he re-signs I think, unless there's a big addition coming like dudacek alluded to. 

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

That’s not really relevant. As we need to pay someone to replace him.

What UFA will play for $3 million and put up 45 or more points?

That's the point. The player who will replace him supposedly would get less money than he wanted to get. There are analytics for evaluating players and there are also salary analytics for positions. The money you intend to dedicate for a first line player is going to be more than the money you dedicate for a second, and a second liner is going to be more than a third liner. If the GM believes that Kahun is a third line winger then there is a third line range for him. If he wants more than the designated range and he believes he can get it in the market then he will enter the market as a free agent.  

I like Kahun a lot. He's a versatile player and a heady player. I consider him to be a solid to good third line player. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he can play on the second line but in my assessment that would be a stretch. 

Kahun surely realizes that the Sabres are a good situation for him. Is the situation worth taking less than what he can get elsewhere? It depends on what the disparity is between the Sabre offer and the market offer.

I'm hoping that a deal can be worked out. If not then so be it. It will be a reflection of the harsher economics of the NHL that every team has to contend with. 

[IKnowPhysics]

1 hour ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Everything pointed towards keeping Kahun.  Still gotta believe there's a deal there.  Adams gonna get it in the post-draft presser.  Sick 'em @john wawrow.

Post-draft presser with KA, Paul Hamilton goes right out of the gate swinging.

 

[DarthEbriate]

14 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Wow 

What? Duclair and Kahun are valuable parts of any team in this league and they're getting the absolute squeeze with the flat cap. There's no middle class in the NHL the next 3 years.

[Thorner]

Botterill - bet on players to replicate the best they have shown, in the past

Adams - bets on future projecitons

There you go. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Thorny

[WildCard]

10 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Post-draft presser with KA, Paul Hamilton goes right out of the gate swinging.

 

huh?

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Botterill - bet on players to replicate the best they have shown, in the past

Adams - bets on future projecitons

There you go. 

and huh?

[LGR4GM]

Adams has been asked a lot about Kahun. 

Listening to Adams, I think he believes that the salary ask from Kahun is higher than the open market will allow for because of the cap. 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

huh?

and huh?

Someone referenced Thompson deal in reference to Kahun and my biggest take away was that Adams focused on the potential he sees in Tage. My take is he doesn't think Kahun has much "more" to give in his analysis. 

Coincides with dudacek's thoughts on Quinn v Rossi 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Thorny

[Cal Naughton Jr]

Holy *****. So many knee jerk reactions. It’s not like we let Eichel walk here. I’ve also read that they are still in negotiations. Let’s not get the pitch forks out yet

Edited October 8, 2020 by Cal Naughton Jr

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Someone referenced Thompson deal in reference to Kahun and my biggest take away was that Adams focused on the potential he sees in Tage. My take is he doesn't think Kahun has much "more" to give in his analysis. 

It is a very different process for how to view players. 

Just now, Cal Naughton Jr said:

Holy *****. So many knee jerk reactions 

You going into every thread and saying "rabble rabble" and doing this contributes nothing to a board who's entire purpose if for Sabres fans to share their "reactions" to things the Sabres do. 

[Cal Naughton Jr]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It is a very different process for how to view players. 

You going into every thread and saying "rabble rabble" and doing this contributes nothing to a board who's entire purpose if for Sabres fans to share their "reactions" to things the Sabres do. 

I did that twice. But thanks for paying attention to me. I think there is also an “ignore” feature here

Edited October 8, 2020 by Cal Naughton Jr

[IKnowPhysics]

4 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

Holy *****. So many knee jerk reactions 

I think it's reasonable to be wary of Adams's choice to risk losing what is currently our 2nd best RW to UFA in an intentional salary negotiation tactic to avoid arbitration.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It is a very different process for how to view players. 

You going into every thread and saying "rabble rabble" and doing this contributes nothing to a board who's entire purpose if for Sabres fans to share their "reactions" to things the Sabres do. 

It's definitely different. He's going to have to be a great judge of talent. 

[Drag0nDan]

It sounds like KA didn't want to play the arbitration game. The open market contract he gets will probably be less than a possible arbitration award too. He never would've signed the QA, but Kahun might be playing with fire here.

On the plus side if they lose him- They literally used 0 assets to acquire him.