Sabres Do Not Qualify Kahun

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Do we know if it's true you can walk away from arb?

Supposedly only if it’s over 4.5mil I read.

 

Effectively if an arbitrator says he should make 4.2 mil we would be forced to pay

Edited October 7, 2020 by thewookie1

[LGR4GM]

Interesting that Kahun's agent rejected the last Sabres offer as not good enough. 

[Trettioåtta]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Do we know if it's true you can walk away from arb?

If it is over 4.1

[Thorner]

I think this is one of those things we can judge purely on result. If they sign him, good for them. They are taking their chances. If they lose him, it was a bonehead move. 

[thewookie1]

Just now, Thorny said:

I think this is one of those things we can judge purely on result. If they sign him, good for them. They are taking their chances. If they lose him, it was a bonehead move. 

I agree unless he’s wanting 3.75 + 

He’s a solid player but not quite worth that much.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

I agree unless he’s wanting 3.75 + 

He’s a solid player but not quite worth that much.

We have the potential cap to afford that. Read that as you will. 

[Trettioåtta]

How much should you pay a defensively sound 45 point player who can play all the forward positions?

[thewookie1]

This year perhaps but we need to get better and we can’t afford Kahun at 3.75, Olofsson over 5 and Reinhart at 7+.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

I agree unless he’s wanting 3.75 + 

He’s a solid player but not quite worth that much.

But if that's what he was asking for I feel they would have qualified him and worked this out.  I really didn't think he would be getting anything more than 3MM a year unless he is looking for term as well.  I could see that complicating the discussion if he's looking for something like 7 years at 5MM.

It's just a bit odd how this is going down.  I can't wait to see how it plays out  🍿 

[thewookie1]

Just now, Trettioåtta said:

How much should you pay a defensively sound 45 point player who can play all the forward positions?

2.8 to 3.4 or so based on the immediate situation 

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

2.8 to 3.4 or so based on the immediate situation 

Agreed, but only on a 1 or 2 year deal.  Anything longer is going to cost more.  Maybe he feels he shouldn't take less money than his last contract, and it's hard to disagree with him in a normal year.  But you know, flat cap...

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

So if I read this correctly, Adams is playing chicken.

He’s made him an offer which is below What he thinks Kahun might get in arbitration because he is not willing to pay him what he might get in arbitration.

Kahun either takes the offer (or a counter-offer) tomorrow, or he walks betting he will get more on the open market.

Its the old bird in the hand/two in the bush argument.

What happens depends on how fair the offer is, how much Kahun likes the situation in Buffalo, and Kahun’s reading on the market for his services under a flat cap.

Ballsy by Adams for sure, whether it’s stupid or not depends on the offers.

Edited October 7, 2020 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

Anthony Duclair (23g, 17a) was also not qualified by the Ottawa Senators sooooooo it's definitely and interesting world. 

[Thorner]

We can't really afford to lose Kahun unless we are bringing in a player of equal or better quality. That's the only caveat I see. To me, if we lose Kahun, it was a mistake from Adams, unless Kahun wanted something clearly over the top. 

Where do we think that level is?

[Trettioåtta]

I believe there are three UFA who put up better points per game than Kahun

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

We can't really afford to lose Kahun unless we are bringing in a player of equal or better quality. That's the only caveat I see. To me, if we lose Kahun, it was a mistake from Adams, unless Kahun wanted something clearly over the top. 

Where do we think that level is?

I’d say if they offered a 2 year deal about 3mil would be where I’d sit. Anything more is overvaluing him.

[pastajoe]

 

[dudacek]

54 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So we're hoping for poor evaluation instead of just abominable. 

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Say he’s got 12 million budgeted for RW and great deal on the table for Killorn.

Sam gets 6 and Killorn gets 4. You’ve got two left for Kahun. He wants 3. 

Do you rob 1 million from the Goalie budget, or do you sign Dominik Simon for 2 instead?

Edited October 7, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Say he’s got 12 million budgeted for RW and great deal on the table for Killorn.

Sam gets 6 and Killorn gets 4. You’ve got two left for Kahun. He wants 3. 

Do you rob 1 million from the Goalie budget, or do you sign Dominik Simon for 2 instead?

It's true, we'll have to see. 

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I’d say if they offered a 2 year deal about 3mil would be where I’d sit. Anything more is overvaluing him.

That much huh? I guess I’m greatly undervaluing him. I was thinking no more than 2 yr. / 2 mil. per. 

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

That much huh? I guess I’m greatly undervaluing him. I was thinking no more than 2 yr. / 2 mil. per. 

2x2 would be great

2x3mil is my max

[Trettioåtta]

He was on track for 45 points. Do people really not value that? Is he currently the third most productive UFA on the market 

[Thorner]

I suppose we couldn't shave a bit off of Thompson's deal?

[Trettioåtta]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Say he’s got 12 million budgeted for RW and great deal on the table for Killorn.

Sam gets 6 and Killorn gets 4. You’ve got two left for Kahun. He wants 3. 

Do you rob 1 million from the Goalie budget, or do you sign Dominik Simon for 2 instead?

This really only works if you already have Sam and Killeen.

At the moment we have Okposo playing alongside Jack. If we sign Sam, Okposo is playing next to Staal

[Marvin]

Is he a 3rd liner or a 2nd liner?  That's about where I think the disparity is.  Sadly.  We might see a lot of this going around the league for arbitration-eligible players who are middle-6: are they on the high end or low end?

Kahun's salary was $3.775M (174th).  Assuming 31 teams x 3 players per line and rounding off for simplicity, a low-end top-6 / high-end middle-6 player is about 135th in the league ($5M), an average middle-6 player is 180th in the league ($3.5M), and a high-end bottom-6 / low-end middle-6 player is 225th in the league ($3.0M).