Sabres Do Not Qualify Kahun

[tom webster]

3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

So who out of Thompson, Mitts, KO, Girgs, Lazar, Eakins, etc... is Kahun not better than?

It’s not as simple as that. This isn’t fantasy hockey. It’s about building a team not getting the twelve most offensively talented guys. I’m not a Mitts fan and Lazar is someone you need in the 13th forward position. I believe the others bring things to the table that Kahun does not. At this point I wouldn’t mind Kahun coming back but only on a $1.75M deal.

[Andrew Amerk]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

It’s not as simple as that. This isn’t fantasy hockey. It’s about building a team not getting the twelve most offensively talented guys. I’m not a Mitts fan and Lazar is someone you need in the 13th forward position. I believe the others bring things to the table that Kahun does not. At this point I wouldn’t mind Kahun coming back but only on a $1.75M deal.

I find it hard to believe he’s worth less than what we gave to Zemgus and Freakin Eakin. 

[tom webster]

7 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Just looked him up. 765 points in 1108 games. If that’s Kahuna, sign him up! 
 

Thats 57 points a season. I’ll take it for $2-$3m 

He’s like Prospal but not as talented. He’s not good enough for my top six so I don’t want to pay him that much.

3 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I find it hard to believe he’s worth less than what we gave to Zemgus and Freakin Eakin. 

Again, they bring different things but I’m on board with believing they overpaid for Zemgus.

[Andrew Amerk]

4 minutes ago, tom webster said:

He’s like Prospal but not as talented. He’s not good enough for my top six so I don’t want to pay him that much.

Again, they bring different things but I’m on board with believing they overpaid for Zemgus.

Well if Kahun is like Prospal, and can put up 60+ points on a line with Skinner and Staal, then certainly sign up up for $2-$3m instead of chasing Toffoli or Hall for $6m+ 
 

Fits well with the TP Covid cap crunch criteria. 

[SwampD]

Jeebus! He played 6 games for the Sabres. One in which the coach forgot he was there.

People are acting like we need to have a video tribute for him the next time he plays in Buff for another team.

[Andrew Amerk]

44 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Jeebus! He played 6 games for the Sabres. One in which the coach forgot he was there.

People are acting like we need to have a video tribute for him the next time he plays in Buff for another team.

Yeah but he had like 5 points in those 6 games. 
 

You have to remember we had to watch Leino skate for like 170 games without a goal or a point. Those 5 points in 6 games are the equivalent to crack for a Sabres fan. 

[dudacek]

56 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Jeebus! He played 6 games for the Sabres. One in which the coach forgot he was there.

People are acting like we need to have a video tribute for him the next time he plays in Buff for another team.

He is fast approaching “concept of” status, isn’t he?

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I don’t think this is true. I don’t think they signed Eakin with visions of him skating with Zemgus and Okposo, like Larry did. 
 

My guess is they envision him skating with Cozens and/or Tage. 

I think so too, but the net talent in/net talent out equation at C, this year vs last has Larsson / Eakin as a swap right now, even though their usage would presumably be different. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Thorny

[Trettioåtta]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

He is fast approaching “concept of” status, isn’t he?

For me, the appeal is that we are back to a budget team. Therefore we won’t get the big names at FA (look at the last three FAs top).

as a result, the only way we can compete is by signing players who are slightly under the radar and will put up good amount of points.

in other words we sign the 45/50 point player for $3 million, rather than the 60 point player for $6 million.

So far we have spent about $7 million on bottom line players. I would rather we have paid that to two decent players - eg Kahun and Fast

[Spun]

41 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

For me, the appeal is that we are back to a budget team. Therefore we won’t get the big names at FA (look at the last three FAs top).

as a result, the only way we can compete is by signing players who are slightly under the radar and will put up good amount of points.

in other words we sign the 45/50 point player for $3 million, rather than the 60 point player for $6 million.

So far we have spent about $7 million on bottom line players. I would rather we have paid that to two decent players - eg Kahun and Fast

I agree with everything you said.  I would add that every team is a budget team these days -for an undefined future.  The numbers must be stressy right about now.  One or more teams at various levels may fold.  A franchise can only bleed so long until they chop it.  The bubbles have worked at the top but those conditions will not be available for all or most.  Economics may push management to lean towards bettering draft performance as opposed to paying a lot for FA hope.  The Sabres have struggled with both.

I would like to see some of the Sabres surge upwards a level or more.  And a youth movement would help the cause.

The first two draft picks are supposed to be offensive.  

Skinner?  Step it up.

Olofsson, more of the same.

Cozens.  ???  Don’t ruin his development.

End the frustration.

[Weave]

8 hours ago, SwampD said:

Jeebus! He played 6 games for the Sabres. One in which the coach forgot he was there.

People are acting like we need to have a video tribute for him the next time he plays in Buff for another team.

Seeing what is happening with Kahun, and where Larsson went and what he signed for, has me thinking that this fanbase is so used to watching non NHL players on the roster that we were all fooled into thinking that Larry and Kahun were more than what the rest of the league thinks they are.  Both of the these guys had the entire league to shop their services to.  The demand just isn't that high for these guys.

[GASabresIUFAN]

47 minutes ago, Weave said:

Seeing what is happening with Kahun, and where Larsson went and what he signed for, has me thinking that this fanbase is so used to watching non NHL players on the roster that we were all fooled into thinking that Larry and Kahun were more than what the rest of the league thinks they are.  Both of the these guys had the entire league to shop their services to.  The demand just isn't that high for these guys.

Larsson goes to AZ for 1.4 per year for 2 years.  I agree many here were over valuing Larsson.  The bottom line is that everyone in the NHL thinks that 4th line guys are basically interchangeable and have little value except the Sabres.  How else do you explain 2.25 for Girgensons.  

The problem here is Kahun.  Obviously KA isn't sold on him, but based on KA's decisions this off-season, his judgement is suspect at best.  This team is starving for offense and he has given us Eakin (5g 10a last season), Rieder (4g 6a) and Staal (19g 28a) while subtracting Kahun (12g 19a), Larsson (6g 12a) and Johansson (9g 21a).  At best this is a wash, but honestly this also made the team older.  Kahun at least had upside, do any of the new guys?

So far the moves really make little sense

Staal > MoJo.  We got older but now have a real No 2 center.

Cozens vs Kahun? No idea who would actually be a better 2 RW next season, LGR can talk about Cozens NHLe all he wants but Kahun is a proven offensive player in the NHL. I also hate this decision to start Cozens at the 2 RW.  The kid is supposed to be our 2C sooner then later (Staal only has a 1 year contract).  He needs to be playing center in the NHL.

Eakin > Larsson.  This is mostly a wash IMHO although Eakin at his best is a better offensive player, but are we getting Eakin on a rebound or the continued slide?  I'm worried it's the later

Vesey > Thompson.  If Thompson is going to play his off wing as the 3 LW, this will make it even harder for him to produce and playing him as a 4th line energy guy also seems like a waste.  

Larsson > Lazar.  If this is the plan, I like Lazar and think he has more upside, but for 1.4 we'd have been better off keeping Larsson.

Honestly this lineup is a mess and doesn't make much sense.  

  

[LTS]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

He is fast approaching “concept of” status, isn’t he?

The concept of "concept of" around here is strong.  

 

[Scottysabres]

24 minutes ago, LTS said:

The concept of "concept of" around here is strong.  

 

But, if applying the concept of the "concept of" theory, are we not allowing ourselves the concept of "concept of" to become a concept of our views on "concept of"?

Asking for the concept of a friend....

Thanks. I'll hang up now as Schopp and Bulldogs heads mimic a concept of exploding......

[Radar]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Seeing what is happening with Kahun, and where Larsson went and what he signed for, has me thinking that this fanbase is so used to watching non NHL players on the roster that we were all fooled into thinking that Larry and Kahun were more than what the rest of the league thinks they are.  Both of the these guys had the entire league to shop their services to.  The demand just isn't that high for these guys.

Correct. But that doesn't say much for what we kept. Not sure but I think we've gone backwards at this point. 

[Weave]

51 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Larsson goes to AZ for 1.4 per year for 2 years.  I agree many here were over valuing Larsson.  The bottom line is that everyone in the NHL thinks that 4th line guys are basically interchangeable and have little value except the Sabres.  How else do you explain 2.25 for Girgensons.  

The problem here is Kahun.  Obviously KA isn't sold on him, but based on KA's decisions this off-season, his judgement is suspect at best.  This team is starving for offense and he has given us Eakin (5g 10a last season), Rieder (4g 6a) and Staal (19g 28a) while subtracting Kahun (12g 19a), Larsson (6g 12a) and Johansson (9g 21a).  At best this is a wash, but honestly this also made the team older.  Kahun at least had upside, do any of the new guys?

So far the moves really make little sense

Staal > MoJo.  We got older but now have a real No 2 center.

Cozens vs Kahun? No idea who would actually be a better 2 RW next season, LGR can talk about Cozens NHLe all he wants but Kahun is a proven offensive player in the NHL. I also hate this decision to start Cozens at the 2 RW.  The kid is supposed to be our 2C sooner then later (Staal only has a 1 year contract).  He needs to be playing center in the NHL.

Eakin > Larsson.  This is mostly a wash IMHO although Eakin at his best is a better offensive player, but are we getting Eakin on a rebound or the continued slide?  I'm worried it's the later

Vesey > Thompson.  If Thompson is going to play his off wing as the 3 LW, this will make it even harder for him to produce and playing him as a 4th line energy guy also seems like a waste.  

Larsson > Lazar.  If this is the plan, I like Lazar and think he has more upside, but for 1.4 we'd have been better off keeping Larsson.

Honestly this lineup is a mess and doesn't make much sense.  

  

The lineup certainly does appear messy right now.  Does Kahun really move the needle much though?  Given that 30 other teams have not beaten his door down, Kahun (and Larsson) to me, is not evidence that Adams is out of his league.  There are other decisions that point in this direction, but the rest of the league is showing that he's likely making the right choices with Kahun and Larsson. 

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

The lineup certainly does appear messy right now.  Does Kahun really move the needle much though?  Given that 30 other teams have not beaten his door down, Kahun (and Larsson) to me, is not evidence that Adams is out of his league.  There are other decisions that point in this direction, but the rest of the league is showing that he's likely making the right choices with Kahun and Larsson. 

Wait, I don't get to do this often... 

There's no place on the Sabres for a 35pt player!

lol

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Wait, I don't get to do this often... 

There's no place on the Sabres for a 35pt player!

lol

Yeah, I get it.  And if it were shown that he’s got value around the league I’d be pretty disappointed in the decision ion to let him go to FA.  
 

I don’t have faith that Adams would make the right decision, but seeing 30 other GMs around the league put him on the back burner too tells me that this fanbase is expending too much emotional capital on this decision.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Weave said:

Yeah, I get it.  And if it were shown that he’s got value around the league I’d be pretty disappointed in the decision ion to let him go to FA.  
 

I don’t have faith that Adams would make the right decision, but seeing 30 other GMs around the league put him on the back burner too tells me that this fanbase is expending too much emotional capital on this decision.

for sure

[Radar]

24 minutes ago, Weave said:

Yeah, I get it.  And if it were shown that he’s got value around the league I’d be pretty disappointed in the decision ion to let him go to FA.  
 

I don’t have faith that Adams would make the right decision, but seeing 30 other GMs around the league put him on the back burner too tells me that this fanbase is expending too much emotional capital on this decision.

I'm not sure how emotional . I think the team was nervous about him going to arbitration. Can't blame them for that.

[Huckleberry]

Did we lose him , or still talking ?

[Shootica]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Did we lose him , or still talking ?

Haven't heard anything on him yet.

[dudacek]

So I guess this move makes a heckuvalot more sense now, doesn’t it?

We understand what Adams meant about keeping his flexibility. 

Kudos to @tom webster on this one.

[SDS]

Never mind. 

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Never mind. 

Yup. This answers the question of whether Sheevyn can replace Kahun with a better player instead. It makes letting him walk quite palatable.