Sabres Do Not Qualify Kahun

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

1.4 for tage but I agree with what you are saying. It is a puzzling thing and my only conclusion is Krueger really wanted Zemgus back and Adams obliged. 

My sense of what is going on is that mostly through the influence of Krueger the organization is attempting to alter the style of play from a finesse and east/west skating to a more north/south and harder style of play. He wants a grittier team that can win more battles. This is reflected in his seemingly reluctance to embrace Skinner who although is one of our best snipers may be considered a floater on the ice. And that style of play is anathema to Krueger. And it shouldn't be surprising that Krueger has a greater appreciation of Risto (as I do) than many others because of his rugged (although sometimes obtuse) style of play.  

[inkman]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

My sense of what is going on is that mostly through the influence of Krueger the organization is attempting to alter the style of play from a finesse and east/west skating to a more north/south and harder style of play. He wants a grittier team that can win more battles. This is reflected in his seemingly reluctance to embrace Skinner who although is one of our best snipers may be considered a floater on the ice. And that style of play is anathema to Krueger. And it shouldn't be surprising that Krueger has a greater appreciation of Risto (as I do) than many others because of his rugged (although sometimes obtuse) style of play.  

Risto is to rugged what the Hummer H3 is to rugged.  Looks the part and is overpriced but in reality it's just an inefficient tank.  

[jsb]

7 minutes ago, inkman said:

Risto is to rugged what the Hummer H3 is to rugged.  Looks the part and is overpriced but in reality it's just an inefficient tank.  

I don't agree but that sure is pretty dang funny. 😂🤣😂

[7+6=13]

13 minutes ago, inkman said:

Risto is to rugged what the Hummer H3 is to rugged.  Looks the part and is overpriced but in reality it's just an inefficient tank.  

We complain about the H3's MPG yet we took it cross country.  

[JohnC]

59 minutes ago, inkman said:

Risto is to rugged what the Hummer H3 is to rugged.  Looks the part and is overpriced but in reality it's just an inefficient tank.  

He's the most physical defenseman on the team. Deduct him and you have a mostly finesse unit. And that isn't adequate. You may not think highly of him but the coach does. That's why he get so much playing time, especially at the end of the game. 

[inkman]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

He's the most physical defenseman on the team. Deduct him and you have a mostly finesse unit. And that isn't adequate. You may not think highly of him but the coach does. That's why he get so much playing time, especially at the end of the game. 

Something something maybe that's a big reason the team sucks?  

[JohnC]

55 minutes ago, inkman said:

Something something maybe that's a big reason the team sucks?  

It called arithmetic. Something is better than less or none. 

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

My sense of what is going on is that mostly through the influence of Krueger the organization is attempting to alter the style of play from a finesse and east/west skating to a more north/south and harder style of play. He wants a grittier team that can win more battles. This is reflected in his seemingly reluctance to embrace Skinner who although is one of our best snipers may be considered a floater on the ice. And that style of play is anathema to Krueger. And it shouldn't be surprising that Krueger has a greater appreciation of Risto (as I do) than many others because of his rugged (although sometimes obtuse) style of play.  

Ok. 

So your theory is Krueger's valuations of worth, and the type of game he wants to play, can be determined by ice time. Ok - I'll buy your premise. 

How do you think he values Larsson, based on the ice time he garnered at C (the second most at C) and his reliance on Larsson in all the tough situations?

Edited October 10, 2020 by Thorny

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ok. 

So your theory is Krueger's valuations of worth, and the type of game he wants to play, can be determined by ice time. Ok - I'll buy your premise. 

How do you think he values Larsson, based on the ice time he garnered?

He did value Larsson. But the calculation was made that he could be replaced with a cheaper player who could offer more scoring. There were cost/benefit tradeoff calculations made. The organization sought to seek an alternative that was cheaper, more offensively capable and a faster skater. Don't dismiss the speed aspect in the calculation. 

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He did value Larsson. But the calculation was made that he could be replaced with a cheaper player who could offer more scoring. There were cost/benefit tradeoff calculations made. The organization sought to seek an alternative that was cheaper, more offensively capable and a faster skater. Don't dismiss the speed aspect in the calculation. 

Do you think swapping Larsson (24 points per 82 game pace, while on exclusively D-zone starts) with Lazar (a lesser, 22 points per 82 game pace), in an effort to address scoring, at the expense of sacrificing the best defensive skill set we have, is a good evaluation?

Edited October 10, 2020 by Thorny

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Do you think swapping Larsson (24 points per 82 game pace, while on exclusively D-zone starts) with Lazar (a lesser, 22 points per 82 game pace), in an effort to address scoring, at the expense of sacrificing the best defensive skill set we have, is a good evaluation?

Larsson was a fourth line player who had a defensive role. He was replaced by a player for almost half the price. The way teams are handling the cap is to pay the lower lines less in order to pay the premium price for the top two lines. It is unfair to compare Lazar offensive stats with Larry's stats because Lazar didn't come close to having the regular playing time. Playing intermittently is a challenge that skews when making comparisons. 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Larsson was a fourth line player who had a defensive role. He was replaced by a player for almost half the price. The way teams are handling the cap is to pay the lower lines less in order to pay the premium price for the top two lines. It is unfair to compare Lazar offensive stats with Larry's stats because Lazar didn't come close to having the regular playing time. Playing intermittently is a challenge that skews when making comparisons. 

You aren't saying anything here lol.

Your only argument is that he costs less. Yes, Lazar costs less. You've won that argument. Any sort of player evaluation analysis you've provided has been objectively wrong, sorry. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Thorny

[JohnC]

Just now, Thorny said:

You aren't saying anything here lol.

Your only argument is that he costs less. Yes, Lazar costs less. You've won that argument. 

That's exactly the point for a team that is not going to spend to the designated cap. You cut where you can at the lower level so that you can add to the higher lines. 

[dudacek]

You guys need to have a different argument.

Lazar was signed to be Lazar.

Cody Eakin was signed to replace Larsson.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Part of me can't help wondering why if Larsson is as elite defensively as is being argued why he ended up with 1.4 for 2 years in Arizona of all places.  I'd think that there would be lots of Cup contending teams that would like to pay that, over that term, for an elite defensive centerman.  Maybe that's just where Larry wanted to go I suppose but nobody any good came knocking on his door? Really?

Because there are very few teams that plan on using their 4th line the way the Sabres have used it all throughout the Eichel era.  And as many have noted here, Larsson has never demonstrated a scoring touch at the NHL level.  Points = $'s.

It was a good deal for AZ.  Hopefully it works out for Larry.

[Radar]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

That's exactly the point for a team that is not going to spend to the designated cap. You cut where you can at the lower level so that you can add to the higher lines. 

I'm waiting.

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Radar said:

I'm waiting.

And so am I. 

[Andrew Amerk]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

You guys need to have a different argument.

Lazar was signed to be Lazar.

Cody Eakin was signed to replace Larsson.

I don’t think this is true. I don’t think they signed Eakin with visions of him skating with Zemgus and Okposo, like Larry did. 
 

My guess is they envision him skating with Cozens and/or Tage. 

[DarthEbriate]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

My guess is they envision him skating with Cozens and/or Tage. 

I'm looking at this, too. I think Asplund/Lazar gets the Girgs-Okposo line to start. I just wonder where this leaves a Ruotsalainen to start the season. Or if he's just traded outright in any package that might include a top-6 or a goalie.

[LabattBlue]

Kahun would be better than anyone currently penciled in for the bottom 6...and its not even close.  This is very sad.

[tom webster]

11 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Kahun would be better than anyone currently penciled in for the bottom 6...and its not even close.  This is very sad.

Two teams gave up on him. Over 100 contracts have been signed since yesterday. He’s still standing and the chairs are filling up. Maybe he’s not as good as everyone thinks.

He might just have the Vinny Prospal disease. Not good enough fir the top 6, doesn’t bring to the table what teams want in the bottom six.

[LabattBlue]

Just now, tom webster said:

Two teams gave up on him. Over 100 contracts have been signed since yesterday. He’s still standing and the chairs are filling up. Maybe he’s not as good as everyone thinks.

He might just have the Vinny Prospal disease. Not good enough fir the top 6, doesn’t bring to the table what teams want in the bottom six.

So who out of Thompson, Mitts, KO, Girgs, Lazar, Eakins, etc... is Kahun not better than?

[Andrew Amerk]

4 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Two teams gave up on him. Over 100 contracts have been signed since yesterday. He’s still standing and the chairs are filling up. Maybe he’s not as good as everyone thinks.

He might just have the Vinny Prospal disease. Not good enough fir the top 6, doesn’t bring to the table what teams want in the bottom six.

I have a Vinny Prospal stick from when he was with the Hershey Bars. 
 

Cant hate on the dude. He spent like 16 seasons in the NHL, including a handful where he was a point per game player for TBL. 

[tom webster]

Just now, Andrew Amerk said:

I have a Vinny Prospal stick from when he was with the Hershey Bars. 
 

Cant hate on the dude. He spent like 16 seasons in the NHL, including a handful where he was a point per game player for TBL. 

He was great for a few years and excelled when he played with high end guys.

[Andrew Amerk]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

He was great for a few years and excelled when he played with high end guys.

Just looked him up. 765 points in 1108 games. If that’s Kahuna, sign him up! 
 

Thats 57 points a season. I’ll take it for $2-$3m 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Andrew Amerk