Sabres, 8th overall pick: Jack Quinn

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

^

Several of the recent posts go to my point - stated here or elsewhere - that a crucial piece of getting a really good player is getting a guy who has that ability to really push and really grow his game. I'm not sure it's something that can be learned or taught. It probably can be. But, for some, I think it's actually beyond their capabilities. That is: They think they're doing it, but they're not. This kid sounds like someone who gets it.  

I think this is key.  

It not who was the best player this past season.  It’s who will be the best NHL player 2, 3, 4, 5 years from now.

You need to have the drive to improve as much as possible, yes, but I think it goes beyond even that.  Some players have the physical ability to improve more than others.  There are guys who are near maxed out in terms of adding strength/muscle, and there are guys, like Quinn, who seem like they have a lot of potential growth left physically.  Maybe both guys have a equal drive to improve, but one of them will be able to make a lot more progress than the other.

And this one thing I think I’m seeing a lot with Adams is putting a fair amount of stock in such projection.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Curt

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think this is key.  

It not who was the best player this past season.  It’s who will be the best NHL player 2, 3, 4, 5 years from now.

You need to have the drive to improve as much as possible, yes, but I think it goes beyond even that.  Some players have the physical ability to improve more than others.  There are guys who are near maxed out in terms of adding strength/muscle, and there are guys, like Quinn, who seem like they have a lot of potential growth left physically.  Maybe both guys have a equal drive to improve, but one of them will be able to make a lot more progress than the other.

And this one thing I think I’m seeing a lot with Adams is putting a fair amount of stock in such projection.

When drafting 18 yr old prospects who not only are not fully physically developed but in some cases emotionally developed projecting has to be an essential component when making evaluations. What is apparent about Quinn is that he is a very mature kid who has plenty of room to grow. 

[LGR4GM]

47 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When drafting 18 yr old prospects who not only are not fully physically developed but in some cases emotionally developed projecting has to be an essential component when making evaluations. What is apparent about Quinn is that he is a very mature kid who has plenty of room to grow. 

Quinn is 19 already. I mention this because it is important. Quinn is only 1.5 years older younger than Dahlin. 

I think he has room to grow his game for sure and we will have to see what he looks like if he gets to start in the OHL. Hopefully he worked out hard in the last 7 months and added strength and speed. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by LGR4GM

[steveoath]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Quinn is 19 already. I mention this because it is important. Quinn is only 1.5 years older than Dahlin. 

I think he has room to grow his game for sure and we will have to see what he looks like if he gets to start in the OHL. Hopefully he worked out hard in the last 7 months and added strength and speed. 

Younger? 

Speaking of the OHL, are they actually going to have proper hockey this season?

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/ohl-needs-to-remove-body-checking-play-2020-2021-season/1mnkjm40t3tf11g1cgg3bp0m3h 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, steveoath said:

Younger? 

Speaking of the OHL, are they actually going to have proper hockey this season?

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/ohl-needs-to-remove-body-checking-play-2020-2021-season/1mnkjm40t3tf11g1cgg3bp0m3h 

yes younger, sorry

[North Buffalo]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Quinn is 19 already. I mention this because it is important. Quinn is only 1.5 years older younger than Dahlin. 

I think he has room to grow his game for sure and we will have to see what he looks like if he gets to start in the OHL. Hopefully he worked out hard in the last 7 months and added strength and speed. 

His Dad is taller and I could see him still growing a bit... Heck I put on 4 inches after high school it can happen

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Quinn is 19 already. I mention this because it is important. Quinn is only 1.5 years older than Dahlin. 

I think he has room to grow his game for sure and we will have to see what he looks like if he gets to start in the OHL. Hopefully he worked out hard in the last 7 months and added strength and speed. 

I'm not so much worried how old he is as I am about his ability to grow physically and his game. From what has been described about him he does. 

With respect to him working out I have to say I'm impressed with the dedication to the rigorous physical training involved to prepare for the draft by all the top tier players. The competition is so intense that if you are not working out at a maximum level you are falling behind regardless of your natural talents. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I think this is key.  

It not who was the best player this past season.  It’s who will be the best NHL player 2, 3, 4, 5 years from now.

You need to have the drive to improve as much as possible, yes, but I think it goes beyond even that.  Some players have the physical ability to improve more than others.  There are guys who are near maxed out in terms of adding strength/muscle, and there are guys, like Quinn, who seem like they have a lot of potential growth left physically.  Maybe both guys have a equal drive to improve, but one of them will be able to make a lot more progress than the other.

And this one thing I think I’m seeing a lot with Adams is putting a fair amount of stock in such projection.

I had meant to add: It for reasons like these that I just shook my head when I heard Schopp talking about Adams' evaluation process, and how he (Schopp) would have NO interest at all in the assessment of the person's character, personality, etc. - that he would exclusively want to know nothing more than "are you an excellent 2-way center?" The implication seemed to be that all necessary information can be divined from watching tape and digging into metrics, and that a meeting, discussion with the prospect was useless, at best, and fool's gold, at worst. Schopp can be a tool, I know, but that particular take seemed so, so myopic to me. Adams said he was impressed with how "self aware" Quinn is, as a person. I liked hearing that - it was encouraging to me. According to Schopp, though, such stuff is irrelevant. 🙄

[North Buffalo]

Look at how because he was a tool the Canadians gave up on uber talented Jonathan Drouin... where is he now thought Tampa had him but he didnt play

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I'm not so much worried how old he is as I am about his ability to grow physically and his game. From what has been described about him he does. 

With respect to him working out I have to say I'm impressed with the dedication to the rigorous physical training involved to prepare for the draft by all the top tier players. The competition is so intense that if you are not working out at a maximum level you are falling behind regardless of your natural talents. 

If growth means height, he's 6'1" so that doesn't really have to be a thing that changes. If you mean weight, all prospects do as they get man strength and develop their bodies. I don't worry about that with Quinn. 

Growing his game is where I want to see the most things grow. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, steveoath said:

Younger? 

Speaking of the OHL, are they actually going to have proper hockey this season?

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/ohl-needs-to-remove-body-checking-play-2020-2021-season/1mnkjm40t3tf11g1cgg3bp0m3h 

I think they will have a season.  QMJHL is already a week into their season.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

I had meant to add: It for reasons like these that I just shook my head when I heard Schopp talking about Adams' evaluation process, and how he (Schopp) would have NO interest at all in the assessment of the person's character, personality, etc. - that he would exclusively want to know nothing more than "are you an excellent 2-way center?" The implication seemed to be that all necessary information can be divined from watching tape and digging into metrics, and that a meeting, discussion with the prospect was useless, at best, and fool's gold, at worst. Schopp can be a tool, I know, but that particular take seemed so, so myopic to me. Adams said he was impressed with how "self aware" Quinn is, as a person. I liked hearing that - it was encouraging to me. According to Schopp, though, such stuff is irrelevant. 🙄

Absolutely.  You aren’t drafting only hockey skills.  You are drafting a coworker.  The person matters.

[JohnC]

35 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think they will have a season.  QMJHL is already a week into their season.

Does the QMJHL allow people in the arena? 

[LabattBlue]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Does the QMJHL allow people in the arena? 

Depending on the area, either no fans or very limited fans.  On a related note...

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/qmjhl-coronavirus-blaineville-boisbriand-armada-18-tests-1.5753671

😞
 

OHL and WHL delaying start of season until “at least” December. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by LabattBlue

[SDS]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Absolutely.  You aren’t drafting only hockey skills.  You are drafting a coworker.  The person matters.

I think the issue arises when you fall in love with intangibles that aren’t also supported by talent.  It’s just as bad as falling in love with elite talent that doesn’t work hard. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

I think the issue arises when you fall in love with intangibles that aren’t also supported by talent.  It’s just as bad as falling in love with elite talent that doesn’t work hard. 

More than fair.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

I think the issue arises when you fall in love with intangibles that aren’t also supported by talent.  It’s just as bad as falling in love with elite talent that doesn’t work hard. 

Yup, totally agree.  Hockey skills also very important for hockey players.  

[Brawndo]

Something interesting came out of the Predators Draft War Room Video. The Sabres called them and offered 8th OA for 11th and 37th OA. Perhaps they figured a range where they could safely move down and still draft Quinn. I would still have taken Rossi at 8th especially since Krueger knows Him as Ralph coached Rossi’s Dad. 
 

 

[SDS]

9 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Something interesting came out of the Predators Draft War Room Video. The Sabres called them and offered 8th OA for 11th and 37th OA. Perhaps they figured a range where they could safely move down and still draft Quinn. I would still have taken Rossi at 8th especially since Krueger knows Him as Ralph coached Rossi’s Dad. 
 

 

This would take some pitchforks out of some hands.

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Something interesting came out of the Predators Draft War Room Video. The Sabres called them and offered 8th OA for 11th and 37th OA. Perhaps they figured a range where they could safely move down and still draft Quinn. I would still have taken Rossi at 8th especially since Krueger knows Him as Ralph coached Rossi’s Dad. 
 

 

So Adams actually agreed with the people on here who said he should have moved down if he wanted Quinn?

Hmm...what do they think of that?

[nfreeman]

16 hours ago, Thorny said:

Yeaaaaaaaa he pretty clearly highlighted current roster and position as big considerations when drafting. It is what it is I think. 

I mean you certainly couldn't listen to that and say need isn't a concern at all when drafting. There's no way you can say the picks were strictly BPA - or what people mean when they say BPA (no regards to position, purely talent based). He's clearly including "position" as part of that trajectory - it has a lot to do with where they'll "end up". 

He contradicts himself a bit - I'd buy the argument that "best" would be his biggest determining factor but coming away thinking he's strictly "bpa" with no consideration for need is not a stance I see as having any reasonable footing, from all he has said. 

If someone says they look at position, current roster, and taking the best player and thinking about where they'll end up, all in the same answer, I think it's safe to say they were/are all factors. You can't just accept the one line you bolded and dismiss the rest - the only way it really makes sense is to put stock into his use of the word "really" before "really focused" - which here to me implies it's what he would call his biggest priority - I'd imagine talent is always the priority though, for everyone. 

 

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

I respect that you see it differently, but I just can't read the way he concluded his answer any other way.

Not the first or last time two people come to two different conclusions from hearing the same thing.

So, I've now listened to both KA interviews (last night's presser plus this AM with Howard Simon) as well as RK today with the Instigators.  I strongly disagree with @Thorny's interpretation.  There is simply no way to reconcile KA's and RK's statements with the theory that they didn't view Quinn as a better player than Rossi or Perfetti, regardless of position.

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

So, I've now listened to both KA interviews (last night's presser plus this AM with Howard Simon) as well as RK today with the Instigators.  I strongly disagree with @Thorny's interpretation.  There is simply no way to reconcile KA's and RK's statements with the theory that they didn't view Quinn as a better player than Rossi or Perfetti, regardless of position.

😄I'm shocked.

You can disagree with their application to Quinn all you want (validly), but my central point wasn't theory or interpretation - Kevin Adams explicitly stated that position and roster are a concern when drafting. 

That they play an admitted factor at all is enough for me to disagree with his drafting strategy (among other stated factors). 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Thorny

[JohnC]

37 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So Adams actually agreed with the people on here who said he should have moved down if he wanted Quinn?

Hmm...what do they think of that?

Wanting to move down to hopefully get the player/s you targeted does not mean that you can move down and still get the player/s you targeted. The team/s below you that you want to deal with is essentially saying why give up an asset when I keep my draft spot and come away with a player that I wanted? If what is reported is true I give the Sabres credit for their attempt at gaining the most value for their draft spot. When all is said and done I'm happy that they got the player they got. 

[Thorner]

53 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Something interesting came out of the Predators Draft War Room Video. The Sabres called them and offered 8th OA for 11th and 37th OA. Perhaps they figured a range where they could safely move down and still draft Quinn. I would still have taken Rossi at 8th especially since Krueger knows Him as Ralph coached Rossi’s Dad. 
 

 

See this makes me happy. 

[Curt]

What’s everyone’s thought of Adams comment that Quinn has some “center tendencies” and that he wouldn’t be surprised if Quinn played some C next season?  I thought it was interesting, but could this actually happen?