Drag0nDan Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: The misleading part in that d-1 number is where quinn played when he was like 16. The unconventional development path kinda makes it hard to evaluate with those conventional projection metrics. They're just about the same age, but quinn has about 2 years of like - serious junior hockey development. I probably would've taken Rossi too, but I'm not going to lose my mind here. I think the team has been soft has hell for years, and adding another player who likely isn't going to play with a lot of jam isn't going to help our cause here. Is the goal to get to the playoffs this year? Or to get there and actually do something?
North Buffalo Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Could be Quinn does well and can understand effort guys... Rossi reminds me of a Marchand type irritator playing with angst... Quinn is bigger... shooter... Perfetti too affable. Sabres need fire which is why I liked Rossi... We will see about Quinn...
Drag0nDan Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Curt said: Perfetti I question his commitment to all areas of the game. Skating needs work and he mostly avoids physical play, defense is meh. He has skills, likes goals and everything else seems like an afterthought for him. I don't know any of these kids. I did think it was nice to hear that in the 6 month layoff this kid focused on strength, endurance, and skating.
JohnC Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Huckleberry said: I mean he was the 11th ranked prospect and we got him at 8. I thought sanderson was more of a reach than our pick. I think he has a chance to become this. If you look at Quinn two years ago and then consider the leap he made last year and project from there how can anyone consider this an unreasonable pick? As you point out he was selected closely to the range where he was projected at. If Quinn develops anywhere near the players you compared him to then this is a superb pick. I understand why because of analytics people prefer other players but when dealing with players who are so young and have different growth rates then analytics should be a factor but not so dominating a factor that it overshadows a longer time frame in projecting one's play. I would like your opinion and other opinions (@LGR4GM/Brawndo /others) on comparing Detroit's pick of Lucas Raymond and our pick of Quinn. Is there much of a difference between the two?
OhMyDahlin Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 8 hours ago, pi2000 said: NHL comparables... Jason Pominville, Casey MIttlestadt, TJ Oshie, Alex Nylander, Brock Boeser. I saw Kyle Palmieri and Jake Guentzel.
Curt Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said: The misleading part in that d-1 number is where quinn played when he was like 16. The unconventional development path kinda makes it hard to evaluate with those conventional projection metrics. They're just about the same age, but quinn has about 2 years of like - serious junior hockey development. I probably would've taken Rossi too, but I'm not going to lose my mind here. I think the team has been soft has hell for years, and adding another player who likely isn't going to play with a lot of jam isn't going to help our cause here. Is the goal to get to the playoffs this year? Or to get there and actually do something? Quinn isn’t soft at all. Not especially physical, average-ish, but plays a committed 200ft game, he goes to the dirty areas. Watch him play, he isn’t soft. He isn’t a perimeter guy. 1
dudacek Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Just now, Curt said: Quinn isn’t soft at all. Not especially physical, average-ish, but plays a committed 200ft game, he goes to the dirty areas. Watch him play, he isn’t soft. He isn’t a perimeter guy. Yes, watch him play.
Curt Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, JohnC said: I would like your opinion and other opinions (@LGR4GM/Brawndo /others) on comparing Detroit's pick of Lucas Raymond and our pick of Quinn. Is there much of a difference between the two? Oh goodness yes. Raymond at least equals Quinn’s two way play. Raymond is far and away a better skater. Raymond is far and away a better passer/playmaker. Quinn is probably a little better goal scorer. Size isn’t too different, Quinn slightly larger.
That Aud Smell Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Fwiw, maybe just for a laugh. (Maybe?) 4
SDS Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Curt said: Patrick Kane, Nikita Kucherov, Mitch Marner, David Pastrnak, Mark Stone........... He said one. Fail. 1
Peter Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Last night on NBCSN, they showed metrics (e.g., shooting percentage etc.) that included a comparison between Quinn and Rossi and others. Does anyone have that? As I recall, Quinn's metrics were very good.
JohnC Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Curt said: Oh goodness yes. Raymond at least equals Quinn’s two way play. Raymond is far and away a better skater. Raymond is far and away a better passer/playmaker. Quinn is probably a little better goal scorer. Size isn’t too different, Quinn slightly larger. Thanks for that evaluation. It seems that you are saying that Raymond has a more well-rounded game. But even that with advantage if Quinn is the better goal scorer that is an asset that has to be given a lot of weight. I'm not using that scoring talent to offset the advantages that you describe Raymond has but in emphasizing Quinn's goal scoring talent is a good argument to make justifying the pick. Edited October 7, 2020 by JohnC
wsam4031 Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 Shocking Sabres F up another draft pick. U had Rossi fall to you! WTF Not a good way to start for Adams. Hopefully he knows something we didnt
dudacek Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Curt said: Oh goodness yes. Raymond at least equals Quinn’s two way play. Raymond is far and away a better skater. Raymond is far and away a better passer/playmaker. Quinn is probably a little better goal scorer. Size isn’t too different, Quinn slightly larger. I don't quite agree with you on this. Raymond at least equals Quinn’s two way play. Raymond might be a better skater. Raymond is far and away a better passer/playmaker. Quinn is far and away a better goal scorer. Size isn’t too different, Quinn slightly larger. I realize it's a tougher league but Raymond scored 4 goals last year in 33 games with Frolunda. Against his peers he scored 8 in 31. Quinn scored 52 in 62. And Quinn is a better puckhandler than some on here seem to realize. Elite Prospects: "He's always manipulating opposing defencemen as a puck-carrier, baiting a response, and then threading the puck through the opening this sequence created. Quinn can get a ten-bell shot off on either foot, and he deploys a wide array of release points to ensure that the puck gets through any manner of situations. This really stood out for me when I watched the tape. 3
LabattBlue Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said: Ha - Wow - the Allen comparisons are spot on, insofar as the Pegulas’ thinking goes. I guess there is plenty of room at the table for the two owners, after they gutted the hockey ops department over the summer. 😂 1 1
LGR4GM Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I just finished reading Pronman's notes on Quinn, Rossi and Perfetti and I think I have a better understanding on why the Sabres took Quinn over Rossi and Perfetti. I don't agree with the decision, but I can understand why. As to Rossi, Pronman's description makes me think of a smaller version of Reinhart. Aka a nice player, but no real star potential. Perfetti, the complaint seems that he lacks high end skating according to Pronman. Thus is Rossi if smaller Reinhart and Perfetti lacks good wheels, I can understand why they went for the guy with an elite skill at a position of need. I find myself often disagreeing with Pronman's takes. 1
Cal Naughton Jr Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, wsam4031 said: Shocking Sabres F up another draft pick. U had Rossi fall to you! WTF Not a good way to start for Adams. Hopefully he knows something we didnt Well I’m sure that you know way more than Adams about hockey 2
dudacek Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 I remember last year when a lot of people were pulling for Cole Caufield to be the pick at 7. Like Caufield, Jack Quinn is an elite goal scorer. Quinn is also a better prospect: bigger, better defensively, better forechecker, better puck carrier, better playmaker and a better line driver. He's a very good prospect. 2 1
etiennep99 Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Curt said: Patrick Kane, Nikita Kucherov, Mitch Marner, David Pastrnak, Mark Stone........... Touche'. Kane is HHOF, no doubt. Kucherov, Marner, & Pastrnak have had great starts. But do they really compare to Howe, Jagr, Kurri, Bossy, Mogilny, LaFleur, Hull, Garner, Selanne, Neely, ... even Gare, and Vaive ? I know that it's hard to compare eras, but RW had more prominence then. All things being equal, the centre wins. And Rossi's stats were better than Quinn's. I thought that we already had Reinhart, Tage, Cozens, (and Kahun, Olofsson, & Skinner) who can play RW.
LGR4GM Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Posted October 7, 2020 All 52 of Jack Quinn's goals, in order. Kris Baker tweeted it out.
Taro T Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 9 hours ago, dudacek said: I waited a few hours looking forward to this thread and it didn’t disappoint. It was far more restrained than I thought it would be. Kudos to LGR for some great, informed posting. This Brawndo post captures exactly what the pick should have felt like to informed fans. This is the type of misinformation and Ill-informed rage I expected to see much more of. This is entirely fair in the first paragraph and entirely wrong in the second. I suspect Taro’s views will change when he gets a better grasp of the raw stats and the circumstances. I am not clear about how this spits in the face of what they said they were doing. It is clearly the product of what they were doing. Occam’s razor suggests you didn’t understand what they were doing. (And how many of you have insight into the analytics the Sabres applied here.) As others have pointed out, calling Quinn a one-dimensional goal scorer shows a complete lack of knowledge of the player. I always thought it was weird that Quinn would get handwaved as being old and playing on a good team but we never heard those things about Rossi, who plays on the same team and is almost exactly the same age. I also thought it was weird that people would talk about his goals being padded by the PP when he was the best even-strength goal scorer in the draft. But what really intrigued me was that he was potentially the best goal scorer In the draft but was also a top PKer And a good forechecker and a defensively responsible matchup guy. And he was a hard working character kid who could skate and his size was fine. The best goal scorers usually have multiple red flags we are asked to overlook because of their scoring. I pulled the Mark Stone card myself on this board. This was delightful to me because Quinn was my crush for the draft, the guy I thought deserved to be picked higher than where the charts were slotting him. I talked myself into being fine with Holtz or Lundell or Sanderson because they seemed to be worthy of the pick, but Quinn was the guy I really liked out of the guys I thought we might be picking from. But there were two guys I also really liked In this draft that I didn’t think were going to be available. And then the draft fell and Perfetti and Rossi were both there for the taking. My reading of the Sabres pre-draft was that Rossi was their guy; I was so convinced that when Adams said Ottawa my head nod started then vanished into a “wait, what?” So I got a player I really liked and wanted who I think will be a similar, but better Sabre than Jason Pominville. And I missed out on the most competitive (Rossi) and the most intelligent (Perfetti) skilled players in the draft. It’s possible Quinn’s mix of skill and compete will elevate him above the other two, but that’s not how I saw it. The Sabres “informed dreaming” process thought otherwise. Like every other draft, we will find out in five years. Did not realize he got a ton of PK time at the time of the post you referenced. So, perhaps the McCargo comparison is unfair. Still stand by wanting Rossi or Perfetti (or even the wanting but non-wanting of Askarov) more than Quinn. Hoping Adams got this right; but not all that hopeful. And that sentiment might be unfair as there is a lot of poor drafting the past 3 years that help color that decision of which the current GM had no input whatsoever.
Cal Naughton Jr Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, etiennep99 said: Touche'. Kane is HHOF, no doubt. Kucherov, Marner, & Pastrnak have had great starts. But do they really compare to Howe, Jagr, Kurri, Bossy, Mogilny, LaFleur, Hull, Garner, Selanne, Neely, ... even Gare, and Vaive ? I know that it's hard to compare eras, but RW had more prominence then. All things being equal, the centre wins. And Rossi's stats were better than Quinn's. I thought that we already had Reinhart, Tage, Cozens, (and Kahun, Olofsson, & Skinner) who can play RW. I think the key word there is “can”. I believe Cozens was drafted to be a center. Reinhart can also play center but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he gets traded at some point. Quinn is a pure RW that loves to shoot the puck. But I’m also in the minority of actually liking this pick
bunomatic Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: All 52 of Jack Quinn's goals, in order. Kris Baker tweeted it out. Wow. Whats not to like ? Kind of reminds me of christmas morning when I wanted GI Joe but got Big Jim instead. Despite Joe’s attributes I quickly warmed up to Jim’s bionic arm. 3
Eleven Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, SwampD said: Five people in the room. Two of them Pegulas. Kevyn,... I really hope that you are a hockey genius. Don't worry. The work was put in well before yesterday's dog-and-pony show, not just by the Sabres, but by at least all of the top-ten teams (which is how Ottawa was able to pre-record the announcement of its third overall and then just sit there and make us wait for five minutes for Alex Trebek to announce it).
etiennep99 Posted October 7, 2020 Report Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Eleven said: Don't worry. The work was put in well before yesterday's dog-and-pony show, not just by the Sabres, but by at least all of the top-ten teams (which is how Ottawa was able to pre-record the announcement of its third overall and then just sit there and make us wait for five minutes for Alex Trebek to announce it). Remember how the NYR ping-pong ball got man-handled before the lottery? No nothing-burgers here; the fix was in.
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