Sabres sign Tage Thompson to 3 year 1.4 AAV Extension

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Tage Thompson, age 24, 1C - .64 points per game

Derek Roy, age 23, 3C - .84 points per game

Long way to go. 

He does not have Vanek and Afinogenov as wingers and is not getting 3rd line match-ups.  That matters too.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

He does not have Vanek and Afinogenov as wingers and is not getting 3rd line match-ups.  That matters too.

And he's getting more PP time and ice time than he would be if he was in the 3-spot. Roy was equal to those players, Tage is not, at least at this time, at that level. 

I think people are getting distracted by the fact we had 3 "close" centres in 06-07 and are forgetting the key variable is that it was 3 Cs who were close to being point a game or better. To reach 06-07, we need Tage to get significantly better, and then have 2 centres pass him not insubstantially. Tage isn't a poor man's 1C, he's a poor man's 2C. 

We didn't run 4 second lines that year, Briere was a top 10 league scorer. 

[Thorner]

Just as an illustration of how much improvement/development/replacement we'll need to see from our top 3 Cs, this season so far, our top 3 (Thompson, Cozens, Eakin) are cumulatively pacing for 119 points over 82 games. The 06-07 crew paced for 238 points over 82 games. Or, exactly double that total. 

Cozens is still coming into the game, Casey, Krebs are too (who, for example could replace Eakin). Obviously it's not a fair comparison. But that's kind of my point - we aren't really at a point where 06-07 comparisons make sense to draw, imo. It's not a matter of finding a couple guys to match Tage. We need the entire group cumulatively to excel, if that kind of team is the goal. 

It's a long ways away. Maybe a C lineup like that of Nashville or Minnesota or maybe the old Vegas, who had serviceable units that did nothing to take away from the true strengths of their team, would be a good initial goal - before drawing designs on what was an ELITE level C unit. 

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Using the term "top 6" C only muddies things as he's not close to 1C quality. 2C on a good team? Perhaps. I think if it's playoff level he'd be in the 3-hole, though.

You’ve been pretty steady with this position. What would he have to do for you to consider him a legitimate 2C?

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

You’ve been pretty steady with this position. What would he have to do for you to consider him a legitimate 2C?

He's having a legitimate 2C season this year. It's nearer to below-average 2C numbers based on a per-game breakdown IMO but, he's an NHL 2C right now. 

NHL 2C, that's the key. But look at our record (People endlessly questioned Jack's ability to lead this team as a 1C by pointing to the "but how has the team done?" argument, I'm not going to, now, with a guy pacing for 50 points?). Obviously that's a bit tongue-in-cheek - we need to afford Tage the same caveats I gave Jack. If the team was better overall around him, could Tage hold down, instead of a below average 2C baseline, an average 2C baseline? With development, a *good* (playoff team) 2C baseline? It's plausible. 

For the purposes of discussion though, if 06-07 is the template here, it's wildly easy for me to cast him off to the 3C spot. It's an entirely different conversation. There's building an adequate NHL team, there's building a good team, and there's building a team that was the best team in the world. 

[dudacek]

Tampa won the cup last year with Gorde (54 points, prorated) and Cirelli (33) in their 2/3 holes.

The Blues had Schenn (54) and Bozak (38)

Can Tage be a Schenn or a Gorde?

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Tampa won the cup last year with Gorde (54 points, prorated) and Cirelli (33) in their 2/3 holes.

The Blues had Schenn (54) and Bozak (38)

Can Tage be a Schenn or a Gorde?

If he's good enough stylistically that he's bumping an all-star C in Stamkos to the W, sure 

And if he's playing behind one of the best players in the world in Point. This is *my* point. We don't need a couple more Tages, we need him to be substantially improved upon. If there's one guy doing it to an EXTREME degree, and the rest of the roster is dynamite, yes, Tage can be a successful 2C - that's what I have been saying 

STL falls in line more less with the Nashville comparison - a team that was built more-so with a complete 2-way game in mind - the D was a key strength in that team. If Dahlin and Power are lights out, that's a potential successful mold 

The Blues model also obviously doesn't appear to be as sustainable 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorner]

I think there's a mathematical possibility that Tage *could* be pretty much anything at this point, but it's rather interesting there's so much fuss over what is so far merely a *20 point* season in 31 games, that the burden of proof falls to me to show why he may not be good enough to be the number 2 centreman on a STANLEY CUP WINNING roster lol. We have 5 wins in the last 2 months haha. Slow down. 

[dudacek]

So much fuss?

I don’t think we are even ready yet to acknowledge that his current 2C level of play is sustainable. 

Players getting dramatically better is not something history has taught us how to deal with. 😀

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the issue with Tage and the rest of the center crew IMHO, we have no idea who they are yet and whether or not they’ll lift this moribund franchise out of the hell it’s existing in.  Cozens, Mitts, Thompson and now Krebs are all question marks.  

Thompson has built on his late surge last season and looks better at center then wing, but just went 10 games without a goal.  Mitts emerged last season, but has been injured all year.  Cozens, 20, is improved but remains consistently inconsistent.  His 40 pts pace is encouraging.  Krebs, also 20, has exactly 1 pt in 15 NHL games, while being very effective in the AHL.  The bottom line is all 4 guys could be top line centers someday but we really have almost nothing to go on.  They are all inconsistent and honestly look to me more like 2nd or 3rd line guys.  

One or two then will likely end up back on the wing.  

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the issue with Tage and the rest of the center crew IMHO, we have no idea who they are yet and whether or not they’ll lift this moribund franchise out of the hell it’s existing in.  Cozens, Mitts, Thompson and now Krebs are all question marks.  

Thompson has built on his late surge last season and looks better at center then wing, but just went 10 games without a goal.  Mitts emerged last season, but has been injured all year.  Cozens, 20, is improved but remains consistently inconsistent.  His 40 pts pace is encouraging.  Krebs, also 20, has exactly 1 pt in 15 NHL games, while being very effective in the AHL.  The bottom line is all 4 guys could be top line centers someday but we really have almost nothing to go on.  They are all inconsistent and honestly look to me more like 2nd or 3rd line guys.  

One or two then will likely end up back on the wing.  

Feel like you should be focusing elsewhere today, 6.5 hours until the Bennett isn't good enough show starts

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Feel like you should be focusing elsewhere today, 6.5 hours until the Bennett isn't good enough show starts

I’m distracting myself.

[dudacek]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:24 AM, dudacek said:

Tage is currently tied for 36th among NHL centres for points, 29th for ES points and 13th for goals.

His stats right now are as good or better than Erikson-Ek, Trochek, Schiefele, Horvat, O’Reilly, Jenner, Suzuki, Carter, Couturier, Barzal and Hischier among other top-6 centres. I think most of us watching think his points have been earned.

For those who think his numbers are artificially elevated by usage, he’s 59th in ice time.

How long does this have to continue before we decide he is a legitimate top-6 centre?

Update.

Since this post, Tage has put up 2 goals and 10 assists in 10 games. 
He’s 38th among NHL centres.

His points per game rate (centres with at least 15 games) is 46th, tied with Matt Barzal.

[French Collection]

Krebs has 5 points in his last 10 games. He looks like a Doug Gilmour type to me, way more assists than goals, dogged persistence and a strong two way effort.

Give him time.

[sabresparaavida]

46 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Update.

Since this post, Tage has put up 2 goals and 10 assists in 10 games. 
He’s 38th among NHL centres.

His points per game rate (centres with at least 15 games) is 46th, tied with Matt Barzal.

So, average numbers for a 2C, but he’s playing in a first line role with 2nd line calibre players. Tuch looking like a first liner, but one winger for like 12 games probably evens out when considering he played a lot with Asplund who’s more of a third liner. More ice time, but harder matchups than typical 2Cs, which makes it hard to say for sure If he would produce as well as a 2C.

[DarthEbriate]

This current contract is looking pretty good.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Krebs has 5 points in his last 10 games. He looks like a Doug Gilmour type to me, way more assists than goals, dogged persistence and a strong two way effort.

Give him time.

Minus the nasty, that's the guy that he does remind of.

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Minus the nasty, that's the guy that he does remind of.

Yeah, I can see that; definitely has some feisty but no real nasty to his game lol

[Doohicksie]

10 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

but no real nasty to his game

Small sample size.  Wait until he gets comfortable in the league.

[LGR4GM]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:37 PM, Thorny said:

Particularly considering, last I checked, his shooting percentage is higher than average, and he's not exactly putting up well-rounded point totals. Using the term "top 6" C only muddies things as he's not close to 1C quality. 2C on a good team? Perhaps. I think if it's playoff level he'd be in the 3-hole, though.

He's in 60th place for Centres in points per game

I hope this doesn't feel like I'm calling you out because that's not my intention, where does Tage rank now?

Edited March 24, 2022 by LGR4GM

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I hope this doesn't feel like I'm calling you out because that's not my intention, where does he rank now?

NHL.com doesn't even list him as a center....but it does show he is getting 0.8 points per game.  That puts him about 75 among ALL forwards, in the top 30s for centers probably.

As far as goals per 60 even strength, the more pure stat on just scoring...he has 1.33 goals per 60 minutes.  That is tied for 12 in the league among ALL forwards...and 5th in the league in terms of who is ahead of him that is listed as a center.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

NHL.com doesn't even list him as a center....but it does show he is getting 0.8 points per game.  That puts him about 75 among ALL forwards, in the top 30s for centers probably.

As far as goals per 60 even strength, the more pure stat on just scoring...he has 1.33 goals per 60 minutes.  That is tied for 12 in the league among ALL forwards...and 5th in the league in terms of who is ahead of him that is listed as a center.

[Brawndo]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I hope this doesn't feel like I'm calling you out because that's not my intention, where does Tage rank now?

He’s tied for 22nd in Total Points for Centers 

[woods-racer]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:42 PM, Thorny said:

Tage Thompson, age 24, 1C - .64 points per game

Derek Roy, age 23, 3C - .84 points per game

Long way to go. 

He's a bum!

Send the guy to Rochester!

[triumph_communes]

Tages line is the only scoring threat and he’s scoring.  Team just needs depth behind him.