Seattle Expansion Thread

[Hoss]

6 minutes ago, Ross Rhea said:

I believe the Black Knights is from Army and that is why it couldn't be used. Something about the US military/gov't being the only ones to use Black Knights. Somebody better knowing can explain.

Correct. Had nothing to do with the Blackhawks. Foley also didn’t really want to go full Army despite his connections to it but he wanted to be close.

[LGR4GM]

The good news is that Laskonnen and Samuelsson will both be in either the SHL or NCAA again next year so they won't be anywhere near the NHL in time to need expansion protection but... post expansion they should be on the team or in year 2 of their NHL careers. Now obviously this could not work and they could never play but at least there are defensive options stewing. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

The good news is that Laskonnen and Samuelsson will both be in either the SHL or NCAA again next year so they won't be anywhere near the NHL in time to need expansion protection but... post expansion they should be on the team or in year 2 of their NHL careers. Now obviously this could not work and they could never play but at least there are defensive options stewing. 

Even if they both signed contracts this off-season and play for Rochester next year, they would both still be exempt as they would be 2nd year pros.  Pekar and UPL who are both signed, are also going to be exempt because their contracts slide as they haven’t played (and won’t) in the AHL/NHL this season.  Davidsson is also exempt.

I wonder if any other franchise was hurt as much by the delay as we were?  Dahlin, Mitts, Asplund, Pilut, Borgen and Guhle would have all been exempt but for the delay.  That’s a lot of talent to have to make a decision on.  It will be interesting to follow this saga as some of these guys take off, while others don’t.  I think the McCabe vs Pilut decision for Jbot could be a very difficult one.  I’m also wondering if in a couple of years whether Risto could end up on the trading block for cap and PT issues as Dahlin eats into his PP time. 

 

 

[Taro T]

56 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Even if they both signed contracts this off-season and play for Rochester next year, they would both still be exempt as they would be 2nd year pros.  Pekar and UPL who are both signed, are also going to be exempt because their contracts slide as they haven’t played (and won’t) in the AHL/NHL this season.  Davidsson is also exempt.

I wonder if any other franchise was hurt as much by the delay as we were?  Dahlin, Mitts, Asplund, Pilut, Borgen and Guhle would have all been exempt but for the delay.  That’s a lot of talent to have to make a decision on.  It will be interesting to follow this saga as some of these guys take off, while others don’t.  I think the McCabe vs Pilut decision for Jbot could be a very difficult one.  I’m also wondering if in a couple of years whether Risto could end up on the trading block for cap and PT issues as Dahlin eats into his PP time. 

 

 

Haven't scoured other teams 50 man rosters to be certain, but nobody immediately stands out as having been shafted as bad by the delay.

Of course, nobody else has been as bad as the Sabres have been through the last 5 years, so nobody else should've been accumulating 18-21 year old talent like the Sabres have.

And add at least Olofsson to your list.

[Taro T]

One other thing I'd like to see Botterill do over the next couple of years is structure new contracts of guys they want to be keeping LT though might have to expose (such as McCabe, Sheary, Olofsson, etc.) in such a way & to as much of an extent as may be possible under the cap such that those guys get their largest cash payout during the duration of the contract in '21-'22 with the bulk of that money coming as a large signing bonus on July 1, 2021.  Continue to have that max outlay on the 1st day of the next couple of seasons as well & then have the contract drop back to the lower rate later to get everything to fit under the cap.

I.e., make these guy as unappealing as possible to Seattle by giving them a relatively huge payment (& way more that their worth for the remaining portion of the contract because their prior cap hit will have far exceeded the cash they receive) on the 1st day of their 1st season in the NHL.  You want McCabe, sure take him, but do you really want to give him ~$6MM on day 1 of each of the next 2 seasons and ~$5MM on day one of the following to eventually get down to a $3MM outlayin the final 3 seasons?  (That would've been a $3, $3, $6, $6, $5, $3, $3, $3 w/ an AAV of $4MM and was strictly as an example.  Not saying that is what he actually will get.  Also realize that doesn't quite comport with the CBA's variability rule, but it is close.)  But Pegulas have shown a willingness to spend to try to make improvements, maybe this would be something they'd be on board with knowing they'd have big 1 time checks to write to him should he stay a Sabre.

Don't know that would work, but hope and expect Botterill is "thinking outside the box" on this.

[I Remember Imlach]

On 12/3/2018 at 9:23 PM, Randall Flagg said:

They should go back to a 1-8 playoff seeding too, so Toronto isn't stuck playing the 3rd best team in the entire league, the Buffalo Sabres, in the 1st round.

There's one problem that's already been fixed.

[Doohicksie]

17 hours ago, I Remember Imlach said:

There's one problem that's already been fixed.

You make Sabretooth cry.  ?

[I Remember Imlach]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

You make Sabretooth cry.  ?

Me too.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The expansion draft will be in two more seasons (after the 20-21 season) and I think this just may get Risto traded this off-season or next.

Exempt: Davidsson, UPL (He'll have played only 2 pro seasons by then), Pekar, Laaksonen, Bryson, Fitzgerald, Samuelsson, Anyone drafted in 2019 and probably Ruotsalainen.

Forwards: Jack, Sam, Skinner and Mitts for sure:  Guys fighting for last 3 slots - Thompson, Nylander, Olofsson, Asplund and possibly the guys we sign or acquire this off-season.

Defense: Dahlin, Montour, Risto (unless traded) - Pilut, Borgen and McCabe currently exposed.  Not the end of the world to lose one, with prospects like Samuelsson, Johnson, Laaksonen, Bryson and Fitzgerald lurking, but in 2 years all three could be important pieces of a good team.

Goalies:  Ullmark or someone else we sign. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[PerreaultForever]

lol, we're not good enough to be worried about anybody we might lose. 

[Zamboni]

This team will look a lot different when the list needs to be submitted. Hopefully JB exposes the least “vital” pieces and we only lose a 3rd/4th liner like we lost Carrier. I bet almost half  the “at risk” players today in June on the list won’t be on the list when the time arrives.

[Taro T]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The expansion draft will be in two more seasons (after the 20-21 season) and I think this just may be Risto traded this off-season or next.

Exempt: Davidsson, UPL (He'll have played only 2 pro seasons by then), Pekar, Laaksonen, Bryson, Fitzgerald, Samuelsson, Anyone drafted in 2019 and probably Ruotsalainen.

Forwards: Jack, Sam, Skinner and Mitts for sure:  Guys fighting for last 3 slots - Thompson, Nylander, Olofsson, Asplund and possibly the guys we sign or acquire this off-season.

Defense: Dahlin, Montour, Risto (unless traded) - Pilut, Borgen and McCabe currently exposed.  Not the end of the world to lose one, with prospects like Samuelsson, Johnson, Laaksonen, Bryson and Fitzgerald lurking, but in 2 years all three could be important pieces of a good team.

Goalies:  Ullmark or someone else we sign. 

Fully expecting, barring Botterill making a deal with Seattle, for the Sabres to lose a D-man in that draft.  The forward ranks aren't 8 quality deep (and likely still won't be 2 years from now) but there are useful D-men starting at #4. 

The top exposed D will be a McCabe quality player.  The top F will be more of a Rodrigues. 

Would also expect Hutton re-signed to a 1 year deal or some other stiff brought in to keep from exposing Ullmark.

[sabresparaavida]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Fully expecting, barring Botterill making a deal with Seattle, for the Sabres to lose a D-man in that draft.  The forward ranks aren't 8 quality deep (and likely still won't be 2 years from now) but there are useful D-men starting at #4. 

The top exposed D will be a McCabe quality player.  The top F will be more of a Rodrigues. 

Would also expect Hutton re-signed to a 1 year deal or some other stiff brought in to keep from exposing Ullmark.

I'm hoping UPL will make it to the NHL by then. You can protect one goalie, and UPL is exempt. No need to bring in one just to lose it.

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

I'm hoping UPL will make it to the NHL by then. You can protect one goalie, and UPL is exempt. No need to bring in one just to lose it.

That is incorrect.  Though each team is allowed to protect up to 1 goalie, they are also required to have 1 exposed to the expansion draft.  If the Sabres don't have 1 other available to expose, then Ullmark would be exposed.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Who are our protected players right now?

Forwards:  Jack, Sam, Mitts, Skinner, and whom?  Asplund, Olofsson?  I'm not sure if anyone else isn't replaceable

Defense: Dahlin, Montour and maybe - Pilut, Miller or McCabe? Another reason to trade Risto now.  Voql mentioned that if we wait until next off-season there are a significant number of RHD coming to market. 

It kind of shows the state of the team that I really can't come up with 5 forwards or really more then 2 D I feel need to be protected.

[dudacek]

I think Botterill has deliberate set himself up to have the depth to compensate for losing a defenceman in the expansion draft two years from  now.

Miller 28

Montour 27 

McCabe 27

Ristolainen 26

Pilut 25

Borgen 24

Fitzgerald 24

Bryson 23

Jokiharju 22

Laaksonen 22

Dahlin 21

Samuelsson 21

Johnson 20

They should be able to withstand losing the 4th “best” player from that group, even if they do trade Risto. Johnson and Samuelsson will be exempt. I suspect it will be Dahlin and Montour and the best of the rest who get protected, leaving a Miller/McCabe level guy exposed.

Edited July 13, 2019 by dudacek

[Taro T]

43 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Who are our protected players right now?

Forwards:  Jack, Sam, Mitts, Skinner, and whom?  Asplund, Olofsson?  I'm not sure if anyone else isn't replaceable

Defense: Dahlin, Montour and maybe - Pilut, Miller or McCabe? Another reason to trade Risto now.  Voql mentioned that if we wait until next off-season there are a significant number of RHD coming to market. 

It kind of shows the state of the team that I really can't come up with 5 forwards or really more then 2 D I feel need to be protected.

F: Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Thompson (if not protected, it'll be because he's entering bust category & he'll simply be punted), Asplund.  Could very likely replace Asplund & Thompson with the player coming back from the Ristolainen traded & Rodrigues

Defense: Dahlin, Montour, & the best of McCabe, Miller, Jokiharju, or Miller.

G: Ullmark

 

?

(no clue where that emoji came from, but it won't go away.)

Edited July 13, 2019 by Taro T

[PalmTreeMafia]

We'll very likely need to protect Jokiharju, which is yet another reason why Ristolainen is as good as gone.

7 Forwards: Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Thompson, new guy from Ristolainen trade

3 Defenders: Dahlin, Montour, Jokiharju

1 Goalie: Ullmark

Exposed: Asplund, McCabe, Miller, Borgen, Pilut

Maybe Asplund eventually replaces Thompson. Or maybe Pilut's development will force the Sabres to choose the "protect any 9 players" option instead of the "7 F + 3D + 1G" option. But at the moment, the 2021 expansion draft isn't a concern.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Marchand'sNose said:

We'll very likely need to protect Jokiharju, which is yet another reason why Ristolainen is as good as gone.

7 Forwards: Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Thompson, new guy from Ristolainen trade

3 Defenders: Dahlin, Montour, Jokiharju

1 Goalie: Ullmark

Exposed: Asplund, McCabe, Miller, Borgen, Pilut

Maybe Asplund eventually replaces Thompson. Or maybe Pilut's development will force the Sabres to choose the "protect any 9 players" option instead of the "7 F + 3D + 1G" option. But at the moment, the 2021 expansion draft isn't a concern.

Can you imagine if Miller got claimed again? 

I agree on the D, but it's good to know that we'll lose on one player and probably a D

As to the forwards - Olofsson, Thompson, or Asplund or the new guy is going to be an interesting "battle" for the final couple of protected spots.    

[Brawndo]

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Can you imagine if Miller got claimed again? 

I agree on the D, but it's good to know that we'll lose on one player and probably a D

As to the forwards - Olofsson, Thompson, or Asplund or the new guy is going to be an interesting "battle" for the final couple of protected spots.    

With Alex Mandracky being hired by Seattle, Miller being the pick is a strong possibility. 

[Thorner]

18 hours ago, Marchand'sNose said:

We'll very likely need to protect Jokiharju, which is yet another reason why Ristolainen is as good as gone.

7 Forwards: Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Thompson, new guy from Ristolainen trade

3 Defenders: Dahlin, Montour, Jokiharju

1 Goalie: Ullmark

Exposed: Asplund, McCabe, Miller, Borgen, Pilut

Maybe Asplund eventually replaces Thompson. Or maybe Pilut's development will force the Sabres to choose the "protect any 9 players" option instead of the "7 F + 3D + 1G" option. But at the moment, the 2021 expansion draft isn't a concern.

If Jokiharju and Pilut explode here, or one does and Miller settles in as Dahlin's premier partner, I think there's a chance we are looking at the 4-4-1 option, indeed. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Thorny

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If Jokiharju and Pilut explode here, or one does and Miller settles in as Dahlin's premier partner, I think there's a chance we are looking at the 4-4-1 option, indeed. 

A chance, yes.  A reasonable one, not really.

To keep Miller (who you got for a 2nd and a 5th, btw) or whomever Botterill considers 4 you are either giving up Mittelstadt or the guy the Sabres get in the Ristolainen deal.  (That assumes that they aren't somehow foolish enough to still have Okposo with him placing Seattle on his no move list.  Should that happen, Seattle gets their choice of Mitts/ new guy in a 4-4-1 scenario.)

Edited July 14, 2019 by Taro T

[pi2000]

I won't invest any time in this discussion for two reasons...

It's 2 years away, the roster could completely turn over by then.

The team is bad, losing one guy to expansion is the least of our worries.

Lockout.

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

A chance, yes.  A reasonable one, not really.

To keep Miller (who you got for a 2nd and a 5th, btw) or whomever Botterill considers 4 you are either giving up Mittelstadt or the guy the Sabres get in the Ristolainen deal.  (That assumes that they aren't somehow foolish enough to still have Okposo with him placing Seattle on his no move list.  Should that happen, Seattle gets their choice of Mitts/ new guy in a 4-4-1 scenario.)

That's right, Okposo must necessarily be protected because of his clause, must he not? Or does he actually have to place Seattle on his list to trigger that?

Edited July 14, 2019 by Thorny

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

That's right, Okposo must necessarily be protected because of his clause, must he not? Or does he actually have to place Seattle on his list to trigger that?

Not sure.  Expect that he'd have to place them on his list, but not positive of that.

And, would hope that they wouldn't have to wait until July 1 for the compliance buyout anyway.  But, don't know how that'll be set up either.