Sabres Acquire Center Eric Staal from Wild for Marcus Johansson

[Broken Ankles]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Well yes, but his linemates and his Off% starts and such has already been shared. I hadn't seen anything yet if other teams planned around his line. Like if ROR jumped onto the ice when the Staal line goes over the boards, that would color my view of Staal's 5-on-5 numbers from last season (which are good).

From Hockey Viz.  Staal seems to have more minutes with the top 3, and defended less (than league average) by the top three of the opposing team.  And then on Defenders, pretty much league average, and less than the bottom pairing, which you might expect if Staal is playing with Zuccs, Parise, and Fiala

Edited September 17, 2020 by Broken Ankles
duplicate

[DarthEbriate]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We should make more trades with Minnesota... this is a bizarre statement to make.

Yeah....   I don't fault the trade from Minn's point-of-view. I just wouldn't use mixing things up as a reason to make it. Unless "mixing things up" is a shorthand code for rebuild, which is kind of where I see the Wild heading.

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

From Hockey Viz.  Staal seems to have more minutes with the top 3, and defended less (than league average) by the top three of the opposing team.  And then on Defenders, pretty much league average, and less than the bottom pairing, which you might expect if Staal is playing with Zuccs, Parise, and Fiala

Much obliged, thank you. So over the course of the season no one truly schemed against him as MInn's 1C, just handled more-or-less as average. Which is good in my mind, because Eichel will draw the opposition's primary attention.

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

With all due respect you are flat out wrong about the bolded.  Hasek had been the best goalie in the 3rd best league in the world 5 consecutive seasons prior to coming to NA.

His style was too chaotic for dinosaurs like Muckler to believe what they were watching him do, but he absolutely was the Dominator.  Don't confuse Muckler's stubbornness with a lack of skill by Dom.  Had Muckler not been a schmuck, he could've gotten something useful, rather than redundant, for Puppa, Andreychuk, & a 1st.  How much would that have helped get past a Habs team that barely got past them when LaFontaine was broken?

I rise, feably and shakily, in defense of my friend from Nova Scotia. OK, imma sit back down.

Was Dom marginal in 1992? As an NHL player, clearly. As a goaltender, no. But was he The Dominator? No. He wasn't The Dominator until 93-94. As in dominating statistically. He had 7 shutouts in 93-94 after having just one shutout in about as many games to that point in his NHL career. Dom was a sub .900 save%, plus 3.00 GAA, .500 record goalie in 92-93.

It should be recalled the Sabres buttoned down their style with LaFontaine out in 93-94, and it was the advent of the dead puck era.

Edited September 17, 2020 by PASabreFan

[LGR4GM]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

I rise, feably and shakily, in defense of my friend from Nova Scotia. OK, imma sit back down.

Was Dom marginal in 1992? As an NHL player, clearly. As a goaltender, no. But was he The Dominator? No. He wasn't The Dominator until 93-94. As in dominating statistically. He had 7 shutouts in 93-94 after having just one shutout in about as many games to that point in his NHL career. Dom was a sub .900, plus 3.00 GAA, .500 goalie in 92-93.

It should be recalled the Sabres buttoned down their style with LaFontaine out in 93-94, and it was the advent of the dead puck era.

Idk what you are arguing exactly but Hasek was dominant for his era. His save percentage is in most years, significantly better than his peers. 

[Stoner]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Idk what you are arguing exactly but Hasek was dominant for his era. His save percentage is in most years, significantly better than his peers. 

I am aware. The question is when he started to Dominate.

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I rise, feably and shakily, in defense of my friend from Nova Scotia. OK, imma sit back down.

Was Dom marginal in 1992? As an NHL player, clearly. As a goaltender, no. But was he The Dominator? No. He wasn't The Dominator until 93-94. As in dominating statistically. He had 7 shutouts in 93-94 after having just one shutout in about as many games to that point in his NHL career. Dom was a sub .900, plus 3.00 GAA, .500 goalie in 92-93.

It should be recalled the Sabres buttoned down their style with LaFontaine out in 93-94, and it was the advent of the dead puck era.

It should also be remembered that exactly 2 goalies in the entire league had sub-3.00 GAA's and Hasek was 6th while getting jerked around by Muckler the year the Sabres picked up Fuhr.  His GAA was nearly a full 1/3 of a goal better than Fuhr's in the regular season and his S% was barely below 0.900 when only 2 teams in the league hit that threshold.  His S% & GAA in the playoffs were far and away the best that year.

He WAS the Dominator back then.  Muckler was too headstrong to realize it.

And prior to Dom doing it, NOBODY expected ANYONE to EVER have a sub-2.00 GAA in a full NHL season 3ver again.  Which happened that very next year after the one you say he was a "marginal" NHLer.

14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I am aware. The question is when he started to Dominate.

The answer is: back when he was in Czechoslovakia. 😉

[JohnC]

50 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Johansson was/is a good hockey player, but he's been injury prone recently, and as you mentioned his play dropped off greatly in the middle of the season after the injury.

This is a good trade.  It gives the Sabres a 2C while opening up a hole on the 3rd line. And because none of the recognized tradable pieces went out in this deal & the cap hit went down, they still have the ability to fill holes in the lineup (possibly even bringing in another younger 2C to really have C depth which we haven't had since Black Sunday).

As you noted making this deal without giving up assets that could be used on other transactions makes this deal even more applealing. As many others have already stated this deal not only addresses (for the short term) a critical need at the 2C spot but it gives us more financial flexibility to use on our less than complimentary assets to better balance out the roster. This team doesn't need a major overhaul as much as it needs a reshaping. And without question the GM's first transaction is a good first step in that endeavor. 

[IKnowPhysics]

18 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

From Hockey Viz.  Staal seems to have more minutes with the top 3, and defended less (than league average) by the top three of the opposing team.  And then on Defenders, pretty much league average, and less than the bottom pairing, which you might expect if Staal is playing with Zuccs, Parise, and Fiala

Yeah.

We may be treating him like a 2C or even 3C, but make no mistake, he was being used as a clear-cut 1C in Minnesota.  He was among the top thre forwards in goals, assists, points, EVG, EVP, PPG, PPP, GWG, and TOI/GP.  He had the highest OZ Start %.

It's weird.  This trade makes a huge amount of sense for us: I like Johansson, but he's not reaching his potential jammed at 2C, whereas Staal is a near-perfect veteran 2C for the next year or two; definitely an improvement for us, let alone better cap numbers.  But this trade makes almost zero sense for MN: They suddenly have a gaping hole at center with big questions regarding who will step up.

[steveoath]

Would a line of 

Skinner-Staal-Cozens

be viable?

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, steveoath said:

Would a line of 

Skinner-Staal-Cozens

be viable?

Absolutely. Barring other moves, it might even be likely.

***

Some good stuff on the trade from Lebrun in the Athletic:

There was always that veiled, hinted threat with Staal that if the Wild moved him at any trade deadline, without his consent, that if he didn’t like his destination, he might just call it quits. He’s made lots of money in his career — he doesn’t need to chase it if he’s unhappy with his new surroundings.

I don’t know how real that threat ever was, but it was a smart and effective perception to have out there if you’re his agent to ensure he stayed in Minnesota.

But now he has indeed been dealt. Against his will.

The reason I don’t think retirement even crossed Staal’s mind after the shocking trade is because it’s his old teammate, Kevyn Adams, on the other side dealing for him.

He’s also going from one great hockey market to another. There’s a chance to do some good in Buffalo, to help a franchise in dire need. It’s has a chance to be a nice story, actually.

But make no mistake, for Staal, staying put in Minnesota would have been option No. 1.

[miles]

Maybe the Sabres can trade a 5th round for dumba since guerin seems to not care if traded are good for his team

Edited September 17, 2020 by miles

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

Much obliged, thank you. So over the course of the season no one truly schemed against him as MInn's 1C, just handled more-or-less as average. Which is good in my mind, because Eichel will draw the opposition's primary attention.

Right - we desperately lacked a cohesive 2nd scoring line.  There wasn't even a 2nd center capable of taking offensive zone draws at a decent clip, let alone also providing some scoring.  Teams could use a shutdown line on eichel, and then almost every team was able to deploy whomever they wanted against our 2nd and 3rd lines.  

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It's funny, but the initial reaction on NHL Tonight was all about Minn GM's working to get younger and faster and getting MoJo to help.  They didn't say a single word about Buffalo getting Staal.

TSN's ticker had WILD ACQUIRE MARCUS JOHANSSON FROM SABRES in big writing with a small "Sabres receive Staal in deal" footnote haha

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

It's what you always worry about. What does the other GM know you don't know? Staal was overheard saying he wants to backpack through Europe. Marcus hated Fargo.

The key to the trade: what is Staal's character. I imagine it was a key part of the Sabres research. For now I'll assume he has gas left in the tank, wants to burn the needle below E, likes the idea of playing in Buffalo, accepts the challenge of digging us out of hopelessness, etc. (I assume because I don't see how the Sabres make the trade without confirming those things.)

I honestly enjoy your posts so much haha

Another thing with Staal is, they probably told/tell him - look, let's put together an unexpected, special run - if it doesn't work out, we'll deal you to a playoff contender for your last hurrah. Sabres are either good or a conduit for him to get somewhere good. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I am aware. The question is when he started to Dominate.

I have what must be an invented memory of him making a massive pad save in Royal at the post and fans in the crowd holding up the sign "The Dominator". When I was younger, I remembered it as having witnessed the advent of the nickname. Of course that couldn't have been the case, but it was a cool, what I imagine to be half-invented, memory. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Thorny
there isn't really much point to this post but ya

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

It should also be remembered that exactly 2 goalies in the entire league had sub-3.00 GAA's and Hasek was 6th while getting jerked around by Muckler the year the Sabres picked up Fuhr.  His GAA was nearly a full 1/3 of a goal better than Fuhr's in the regular season and his S% was barely below 0.900 when only 2 teams in the league hit that threshold.  His S% & GAA in the playoffs were far and away the best that year.

He WAS the Dominator back then.  Muckler was too headstrong to realize it.

And prior to Dom doing it, NOBODY expected ANYONE to EVER have a sub-2.00 GAA in a full NHL season 3ver again.  Which happened that very next year after the one you say he was a "marginal" NHLer.

The answer is: back when he was in Czechoslovakia. 😉

He was a marginal player because that's how hockey people in Chicago and Buffalo treated him. I suppose you described him as a dominating presence in goal in 1992 and openly predicted his entrance into the Hall of Fame.

This is dumb. Everyone knows when Dom became The Dominator.

[Taro T]

47 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

He was a marginal player because that's how hockey people in Chicago and Buffalo treated him. I suppose you described him as a dominating presence in goal in 1992 and openly predicted his entrance into the Hall of Fame.

This is dumb. Everyone knows when Dom became The Dominator.

Did not predict HoF at the time of the trade to Buffalo.  Absolutely predicted AS status back then.  Couldn't believe we got him effectively for Ruuttu & a draft pick.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Taro T

[JohnC]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Didn't not predict HoF at the time of the trade to Buffalo.  Absolutely predicted AS status back then.  Couldn't believe we got him effectively for Ruuttu & a draft pick.

Please do not use double negatives to make a point. It drives me crazy and makes me more confused than I already am. 🤡 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Please do not use double negatives to make a point. It drives me crazy and makes me more confused than I already am. 🤡 

That wasn't intentional.  Friggin' autocorrect makes some very interesting decisions.  Fixed the post.  Thanks.

[JohnC]

Just now, Taro T said:

That wasn't intentional.  Friggin' autocorrect makes some very interesting decisions.  Fixed the post.  Thanks.

I feel less befuddled now. 🤡

[In The Buff]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I have what must be an invented memory of him making a massive pad save in Royal at the post and fans in the crowd holding up the sign "The Dominator". When I was younger, I remembered it as having witnessed the advent of the nickname. Of course that couldn't have been the case, but it was a cool, what I imagine to be half-invented, memory. 

I could see that in the 1993-1994 season, when he wore the Blue & Gold & was on his way to his 1st Vezina.

[bob_sauve28]

Will this move get Skinner back to 30 goals? 

[Zamboni]

8 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Will this move get Skinner back to 30 goals? 

The odds have increased. It’s up to Skinner. If he’s with one of Jack or Eric, I could see it happening barring injury or a loooong slump.

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Will this move get Skinner back to 30 goals? 

Whether or not this gets Skinner into that ballpark is one of the biggest barometers for judging the success of this move

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Thorny