Report Sabres Considering Internal Salary Cap

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

Two years after.  Not that quickly.

They were in win now mode during those years.

So they couldn't win with a ROOKIE Jack Eichel and a sophomore JE who missed 25% of the season, (and even STILL set a higher points mark than we've seen since) so they cut bait? On the GM and our desire to "win now"? 

Joke. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So they couldn't win with a ROOKIE Jack Eichel and a sophomore JE who missed 25% of the season, (and even STILL set a higher points mark than we've seen since) so they cut bait? 

Joke. 

Yeah man, it’s been bad.

I challenge anyone to disagree!  Lol

[dudacek]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You should have added the Kahun deal to your list. 

Nope. He’s played two weeks of hockey. Jury is still out.

39 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Why would the odds be 50/50? Look at the things I listed he bet on. The odds vary based on the likelihood of the desired scenario taking place

If the odds were 50/50, and we lost the amount of bets we made as a franchise purely by luck, Botterill should still be here. 

I’m saying the average GM should be 50/50 on his moves.

We’re trying to make the same point. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

58 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about The Botterill era was how infrequently things did bounce our way.

Dahlin lottery, first year Skinner, Olofsson, Jokiharju... can you think of other off-season hopes that were fully realized?

 

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Nope. He’s played two weeks of hockey. Jury is still out.

I’m saying the average GM should be 50/50 on his moves.

We’re trying to make the same point. 

Right, you mean remarkable, not in us randomly missing out, against the odds, but rather because of how actively wrong Botts must have been to buck the mathematical pull. Then yes we agree.

- - - 

I'd add Dahlin rookie year. It was special for an 18 year old statistically. And he garnered a Calder nomination. My expectations, personally, were not higher than that. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

Right, you mean remarkable, not in us randomly missing out, against the odds, but rather because of how actively wrong Botts must have been to buck the mathematical pull. Then yes we agree.

- - - 

I'd add Dahlin rookie year. It was special for an 18 year old statistically. And he garnered a Calder nomination.

Exactly to point one.

While I do think Dahlin’s first year was special in the sense you’re saying, I also thought it was more or less expected based on the pedigree. It was like trading for Skinner and getting 30 goals, not 40 or 14.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Exactly to point one.

While I do think Dahlin’s first year was special in the sense you’re saying, I also thought it was more or less expected based on the pedigree. It was like trading for Skinner and getting 30 goals, not 40 or 14.

I'm getting a bit lost. You said these "bounce our way" things are supposed to be about 50/50. So I took "bounce our way" to mean, work out the way we hope. It worked with, say, Jokiharju. If you mean things working out better than expected, ya, I guess the rookie season wouldn't apply. 

[Weave]

20 hours ago, dudacek said:

I've been saying it all along, I think people are being myopic on this one. It's way bigger than Buffalo. We are underestimating how hard virtually all teams are going to be hit, especially the ones that aren't huge brands. If there's no revenue, how are teams going to fund a $70 million payroll, let alone $81 million?

Pierre McGuire on TSN1200.

“I’m going to caution everybody including Mark Borowiecki’s agent, these are way different times in the National Hockey League, and you’re just starting to see just a little ripple in the water. This is going to be a very different time financially for the league, and for a lot of member clubs in the league. I’m just telling you. The stories haven’t broken yet, but this is going to be a way different time for free agents, be a way different time for established players. You’re going to see some major cost-cutting around the National Hockey League, major, major cost-cutting. There are people writing stories now about this team laying off these people. You’re going to see a lot more. It’s going to trickle down to player’s salaries. This is a very different time in this league. It’s not getting enough exposure right now. I completely understand because of the playoffs. No one really wants to talk about it.

Other industries compensated through mass layoffs, which are impossible in the NHL on the ice. What is possible is declining qualifying offers, buyouts, and refusing to engage in anything other than take-it-or-leave offers to free agents.

How much can each individual owner afford to piss away?

The rest of the league may very well be in the same boat, but if the internal cap means we can't make the scope of changes that this team needs to make we're still a bottom half of the league team.  We NEED to spend to the cap just to get this team right again.  An internal cap is another handcuff on this team regardless of whether the rest of the league has an internal cap or not.

[SwampD]

Here’s what I think the odds are of an internal cap affecting the outcome of our season, given the moves available in these trying times.

 

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, Weave said:

The rest of the league may very well be in the same boat, but if the internal cap means we can't make the scope of changes that this team needs to make we're still a bottom half of the league team.  We NEED to spend to the cap just to get this team right again.  An internal cap is another handcuff on this team regardless of whether the rest of the league has an internal cap or not.

I’ll argue that a 2020-21 Sabres playoff team could be iced with a cap hit in the low 70’s.  It certainly does make it more difficult though.  It’s a handcuff rather than an assurance of failure.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Yes, Eichel will probably get fed up at some point if things don't improve, and yes, he might ask to be traded.  That doesn't mean the Sabres will grant his request -- especially in light of the debacle that ensued when it happened with ROR -- and it sure doesn't mean the team will relocate.

not sure how you prevent granting it (if it happens). This past season he seemed to step it up and played with what looked like his all (if he has still more it's a scary thought) and that was the first year I'd say that about him for a full season (or full cut off season to be specific). If he truly wants out he'll quit on them and float, I'm sure of it, and then you're stuck and the trade value drops as well.

In all likelihood if he truly wants out it'll be behind closed doors and we'll only hear about it with a rumour and denial and only if it fails to happen will he come out publicly with a demand/request.  Heck, it may have already happened. No way to know. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Three months in, we have no indication of what Adams intends to do with this roster

What makes you think he has a clue?

[Eleven]

3 hours ago, spndnchz said:

“word of the day” toilet paper?

MOD FIGHT!!!!!

[dudacek]

18 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

What makes you think he has a clue?

Everybody starts with a blank slate.

[Curt]

24 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

What makes you think he has a clue?

 

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Everybody starts with a blank slate.

Seems like he was clever enough to politic his way into the GM role.  Maybe he is clever enough to be a savvy GM.  Cream (or oil! Lol) rises to the top.  Here’s hoping!

Edited September 16, 2020 by Curt

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

 Cream (or oil! Lol) rises to the top.

So does blood, every time I pound a steak.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

So does blood, every time I pound a steak.

How about when beating a dead horse?  Seems to be more relevant around these parts.  😁

Edited September 16, 2020 by Curt

[Eleven]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

How about when beating a dead horse?  Seems to be more relevant around these parts.  😁

 

[Brawndo]

I realize that the Pegulas have lost money on the Sabres in the past few seasons and there is and will be cost cutting across the NHL, but the franchise that is amongst the first to mentioned when relocation is brought up has more front office  personnel than the Sabres with three weeks to go until the draft. 
 

 

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I realize that the Pegulas have lost money on the Sabres in the past few seasons and there is and will be cost cutting across the NHL, but the franchise that is amongst the first to mentioned when relocation is brought up has more front office  personnel than the Sabres with three weeks to go until the draft. 
 

 

Very interesting to me that Zito brought in two veteran former GMs almost immediately there as advisors, while Kevyn has basically dodged the question.

[Brawndo]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Very interesting to me that Zito brought in two veteran former GMs almost immediately there as advisors, while Kevyn has basically dodged the question.

I understand that Duds doesn’t play well in the sandbox at times, but he wanted to be with the Sabres in a similar role. 
 

Adams is going into the draft and free agency with a very inexperienced staff, having Dudley, Gillis or even Hextall in an advisory role would have been beneficial.

[bunomatic]

16 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I understand that Duds doesn’t play well in the sandbox at times, but he wanted to be with the Sabres in a similar role. 
 

Adams is going into the draft and free agency with a very inexperienced staff, having Dudley, Gillis or even Hextall in an advisory role would have been beneficial.

Adams has Kimmy to bounce ideas off of. Perhaps he’s much like her and the old man. They feel they’re above seeking help. They’ve bumbled their way through ownership of this franchise to this point, why go outside their circle now ?

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

It all amounts to another season where we head into it needing a LOT of things to bounce our way. We continually rely on best-case-scenarios to pave our road to success rather than building a functionally competent roster by conservative projection.

Every offseason under Botts was exactly the same and until Adams proves otherwise (yes, the onus is quite assuredly on him) this feels like groundhog day.

Well, until we see the moves that are made, we can assume it but won't know it.

My only point in this thread is that IF the internal cap is ~$75MM, that isn't terribly constricting as teams TRY to leave $2-3MM available for moves later in the season if they are available and that would only be taking ~$3MM more off that knowing that Dahlin alone will account for almost all of that $3MM (which will be more desperately needed next off-season when Dahlin goes from ELC to Eichel territory & the cap will still be facing Lockdown effects).

If they're looking at ~$72 like AZ is rumored, yeah, they're screwed.  But until we know it's $72-ish, won't expect that.  And it really comes down to: can Adams get the moves done that need to happen?  Hope he can, but no reason to believe it at present.  When we start to see moves, we'll find out where we're at.  (No Schlitz, Sherlock. Thanks for that blinding wisdom.  😉 )

Considering he's been rumored to be close to a deal w/ the Pens but hasn't been the buyer of their trash yet, maybe he can get it done.

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

I realize that the Pegulas have lost money on the Sabres in the past few seasons and there is and will be cost cutting across the NHL, but the franchise that is amongst the first to mentioned when relocation is brought up has more front office  personnel than the Sabres with three weeks to go until the draft. 
 

 

Nobody told me that Florida has Stiles Burr!

We are all screwed now!

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Very interesting to me that Zito brought in two veteran former GMs almost immediately there as advisors, while Kevyn has basically dodged the question.

It's getting worrying already lol

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Curt said:

 

Seems like he was clever enough to politic his way into the GM role.  Maybe he is clever enough to be a savvy GM.  Cream (or oil! Lol) rises to the top.  Here’s hoping!

Maybe. but maybe he was just Andy Bernard on the Office. A yes man who agreed to work for cheap and do whatever the owners wanted. This seems the more likely possibility but you never know, he might surprise. Wait for some evidence of that I guess.