Report Sabres Considering Internal Salary Cap

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, freester said:

Does that mean they have an internal cap like the Sabres or that they will spend to the max?

Spend to the max 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Thorny

[Broken Ankles]

7 hours ago, freester said:

Botteril was the worst GM In NHL history. Lehner will soon win the Conn Smythe and Botteril will look even more incompetent than he already does. 

It’s close, but TM was worse, no he won’t, and his incompetence could only lessen if any of his draft picks find success.  Interesting that both you and @PerreaultForever called for a Conn Smythe for Lehner.  He is losing 3-1 to a team that is one of the lowest scoring teams in the league.  He has faced considerably fewer shots against than MAF in game one and given up more goals.  If the Golden Knights are fortunate enough to get past Dallas, he would get lit up like a Christmas tree against TB.  I only hope that KA can extract something from Vegas when they decide to overpay Robin in the off-season.  

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

It’s close, but TM was worse, no he won’t, and his incompetence could only lessen if any of his draft picks find success.  Interesting that both you and @PerreaultForever called for a Conn Smythe for Lehner.  He is losing 3-1 to a team that is one of the lowest scoring teams in the league.  He has faced considerably fewer shots against than MAF in game one and given up more goals.  If the Golden Knights are fortunate enough to get past Dallas, he would get lit up like a Christmas tree against TB.  I only hope that KA can extract something from Vegas when they decide to overpay Robin in the off-season.  

Yup. I was basing the comment on what he did against Vancouver but you are right, he has not been as good this series. Decent, but not great. Certainly not as good as Khudobin. Myself, I was wondering if he was getting tired and wearing down with this many games mostly every other day. He's been in rotational situations last couple years and this might simply be too much for him. He's still not giving up a ton though so I'm not sure he'd be lit up by Tampa like you say, but at this rate we will never know. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

14 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I actually would have to agree; while I'd imagine the Pegulas are trying to lessen their losses I don't expect Terry to turn down the opportunity to make the team better. If anything Pegula could have very well told Adams to go after big fish but not spend recklessly.

 

Botts was so damn stupid its not even funny.

I'd love to understand how

Thompson, Sobotka, Berglund and a 2019 1st, and a 2021 2nd, and $7.5 M.

equated to or came close to

(2018) 3rd Overall, Danault and Poehling

in his mind.

 

Montreal's 2nd Danault and Poehling should of been countered with either Danault, Poehling and a lottery safe 1st in 2019 and their 3rd in 2018

Ugh just ugh

Fify

[Thorner]

 

 

[sabremike]

On 9/12/2020 at 10:11 AM, nfreeman said:

Out of the employees that have left PSE, how many do you think have been fired vs left voluntarily?

Separately:  for those unhappy about the possibility of an internal cap:  how much money do you think the team will lose next year at a $72MM payroll?  And how much do you think it's reasonable to expect TP to lose?  $10MM?  $20MM?  More?

 

Of the several I've talked to (and were my reps) they all quit. They are really really ***** to work for.

 

[OhMyDahlin]

We might as well start preparing for that Eichel trade request sometime next spring.

This team is going nowhere anytime soon.


(Sorry for the doom-and-gloom, I'm just so upset with this team right now.)

Edited September 14, 2020 by OhMyDahlin

[Marvin]

On 9/13/2020 at 3:26 AM, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Fify

If Botterill had traded O'Reilly at the draft, Montreal would have had to pay the $7.5 M.

[Taro T]

On 9/12/2020 at 1:03 PM, Curt said:

I’m actually not too worried about these reports of a possible internal cap.  There are also reports that they will be in on Pietrangelo and McCann, so...............

Yeah, until we see this "internal cap" in action, it very well might not be that bad.  Dahlin will earn his ~$2.7MM worth of bonuses again and Cozens will likely earn some.  Not sure if Jokiharju, Olofsson, &/or Kahun are still eligible for bonuses but if any are the Sabres are easily looking at $3.5MM in ELC bonuses & maybe even $5MM.  By having an internal cap of ~$75MM & adhering to it, they'll be able to 0ay those bonuses out of this year's cap & be clean (except for Hodgson) cap wise in '21-'22.

Now, if they end up ~$72MM, well that will stink.  But not expecting it until we actually see it.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Taro T

[Rasmus_]

This team is crap.  That's all.

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, OhMyDahlin said:

We might as well start preparing for that Eichel trade request sometime next spring.

This team is going nowhere anytime soon.


(Sorry for the doom-and-gloom, I'm just so upset with this team right now.)

It's not doom and gloom, it's simply accurate. Sad to say. 

I read a thing that said Boston was considering a major overhaul (figuring the veteran core had their shots and it's over for them I guess) so maybe they already have their eyes on him since they know that's where he dreams of being. I dunno, moving a big name top guy isn't easy no matter the destination but I'm sure we can screw it up and trade him for a bag of peanuts. 

When's the next "generational" player due in the draft? Maybe we have plans to tank for him. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by PerreaultForever

[Curt]

53 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yeah, until we see this "internal cap" in action, it very well might not be that bad.  Dahlin will earn his ~$2.7MM worth of bonuses again and Cozens will likely earn some.  Not sure if Jokiharju, Olofsson, &/or Kahun are still eligible for bonuses but if any are the Sabres are easily looking at $3.5MM in ELC bonuses & maybe even $5MM.  By having an internal cap of ~$75MM & adhering to it, they'll be able to 0ay those bonuses out of this year's cap & be clean (except for Hodgson) cap wise in '21-'22.

Now, if they end up ~$72MM, well that will stink.  But not expecting it until we actually see it.

Right.  An “Internal Cap” could just be (1) keep enough cap room to pay all of the possible bonuses and (2) keep a couple Mil open for a possible deadline acquisition.

A directive to be able to pay all bonuses out of this years cap makes total sense too.  I wouldn’t want to roll over extra deductions into next year when Dahlin and Jokiharju will both be due for possibly very big extensions.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

15 minutes ago, Curt said:

Right.  An “Internal Cap” could just be (1) keep enough cap room to pay all of the possible bonuses and (2) keep a couple Mil open for a possible deadline acquisition.

A directive to be able to pay all bonuses out of this years cap makes total sense too.  I wouldn’t want to roll over extra deductions into next year when Dahlin and Jokiharju will both be due for possibly very big extensions.

If they don't make some necessary moves they won't need to save money for a deadline acquisition.

[Curt]

38 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

If they don't make some necessary moves they won't need to save money for a deadline acquisition.

I agree.  I think everyone does.

[Cascade Youth]

I’m considering an internal cap on the amount of Sabres hockey I watch.

[dudacek]

37 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think people are underestimating how hard it would be to not only improve to the extent we want, but do it while slashing 6 million in budget from an already struggling team. Is this the pathway to revised expectations or are we actually thinking we can field a good-shot-at-the-playoffs roster for 75 mil?

What does that 6 mil cost us? Prevent us from adding? Prevent us from locking up in terms of years on a now hypothetical Reinhart contract?

I have to admit to being a little surprised by the overall reaction, speaking only for myself. It's shouldn't be close to doom and gloom, it's definitely something that I think can be made to work, but it's not as easy as the clever and arguably feasible roster re-work scenarios we draw up here - it's about upping the degree of difficulty for an enterprise that's already been struggling. I can only see it making things more difficult for Adams. 

It almost seems like we need to fall back on a, well, it didn't work when they WERE spending to the cap, might as well try without! type deal.

I've been saying it all along, I think people are being myopic on this one. It's way bigger than Buffalo. We are underestimating how hard virtually all teams are going to be hit, especially the ones that aren't huge brands. If there's no revenue, how are teams going to fund a $70 million payroll, let alone $81 million?

Pierre McGuire on TSN1200.

“I’m going to caution everybody including Mark Borowiecki’s agent, these are way different times in the National Hockey League, and you’re just starting to see just a little ripple in the water. This is going to be a very different time financially for the league, and for a lot of member clubs in the league. I’m just telling you. The stories haven’t broken yet, but this is going to be a way different time for free agents, be a way different time for established players. You’re going to see some major cost-cutting around the National Hockey League, major, major cost-cutting. There are people writing stories now about this team laying off these people. You’re going to see a lot more. It’s going to trickle down to player’s salaries. This is a very different time in this league. It’s not getting enough exposure right now. I completely understand because of the playoffs. No one really wants to talk about it.

Other industries compensated through mass layoffs, which are impossible in the NHL on the ice. What is possible is declining qualifying offers, buyouts, and refusing to engage in anything other than take-it-or-leave offers to free agents.

How much can each individual owner afford to piss away?

Edited September 15, 2020 by dudacek

[Broken Ankles]

59 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I've been saying it all along, I think people are being myopic on this one. It's way bigger than Buffalo. We are underestimating how hard virtually all teams are going to be hit, especially the ones that aren't huge brands. If there's no revenue, how are teams going to fund a $70 million payroll, let alone $81 million?

Pierre McGuire on TSN1200.

“I’m going to caution everybody including Mark Borowiecki’s agent, these are way different times in the National Hockey League, and you’re just starting to see just a little ripple in the water. This is going to be a very different time financially for the league, and for a lot of member clubs in the league. I’m just telling you. The stories haven’t broken yet, but this is going to be a way different time for free agents, be a way different time for established players. You’re going to see some major cost-cutting around the National Hockey League, major, major cost-cutting. There are people writing stories now about this team laying off these people. You’re going to see a lot more. It’s going to trickle down to player’s salaries. This is a very different time in this league. It’s not getting enough exposure right now. I completely understand because of the playoffs. No one really wants to talk about it.

Other industries compensated through mass layoffs, which are impossible in the NHL on the ice. What is possible is declining qualifying offers, buyouts, and refusing to engage in anything other than take-it-or-leave offers to free agents.

How much can each individual owner afford to piss away?

Well the players signed up for 20% escrow so there’s that.  It takes an internal salary cap of $75m to $60m in real money.  I’m not suggesting this year will not be incredibly different than most, however with the National and Regional TV contracts, some teams will be above their actual salary before any other HRR.  Plus each owner gets a nice fat check of $20m for Seattle?   Let’s not feel too bad for T-Pegs and his Billionaire cronies.   I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some kind of pivot to online sports betting to boost revenue if fans cannot fill these arena in 2021.  

[PerreaultForever]

It might be a year where a lot of FAs who would normally be seeking long term for security will end up taking 1 yr. deals hoping for a normalization the following season. 

[sabremike]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not doom and gloom, it's simply accurate. Sad to say. 

I read a thing that said Boston was considering a major overhaul (figuring the veteran core had their shots and it's over for them I guess) so maybe they already have their eyes on him since they know that's where he dreams of being. I dunno, moving a big name top guy isn't easy no matter the destination but I'm sure we can screw it up and trade him for a bag of peanuts. 

When's the next "generational" player due in the draft? Maybe we have plans to tank for him. 

Fans in Kansas City, Houston or some other city will be concerned with this because that's where the Sabres will be shortly thereafter.

[LTS]

38 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Fans in Kansas City, Houston or some other city will be concerned with this because that's where the Sabres will be shortly thereafter.

If you are convinced of this, will you still be a fan? 

If not, why are you still here?

If so, why would you not include yourself in the concerned group?  Or is it just the fans in those cities that will be upset but not the fans of the team that live elsewhere?  Why wouldn't all fans be concerned?

 

 

[freester]

I think there will be very few teams that spend up to to the cap.   Toronto. Rangers, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, Vegas, Tampa  Those are the ones off the top of my head.  I expect most teams to drastically cut overhead like the Pegulas have done and have an internal cap.  I think most trades will be contract dollars in for contract dollars out trades.  UFA and RFA are not going to find the pot of gold they were hoping for.

[sabremike]

12 minutes ago, LTS said:

If you are convinced of this, will you still be a fan? 

If not, why are you still here?

If so, why would you not include yourself in the concerned group?  Or is it just the fans in those cities that will be upset but not the fans of the team that live elsewhere?  Why wouldn't all fans be concerned?

 

 

Since you failed to comprehend what I said:

If the Sabres end up trading Eichel the team relocates shortly thereafter and are as dead as my Whalers.

[Curt]

14 minutes ago, freester said:

I think there will be very few teams that spend up to to the cap.   Toronto. Rangers, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, Vegas, Tampa  Those are the ones off the top of my head.  I expect most teams to drastically cut overhead like the Pegulas have done and have an internal cap.  I think most trades will be contract dollars in for contract dollars out trades.  UFA and RFA are not going to find the pot of gold they were hoping for.

Montreal hasn't spent to the cap for the past several seasons.  I doubt they will start now.

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

I've been saying it all along, I think people are being myopic on this one. It's way bigger than Buffalo. We are underestimating how hard virtually all teams are going to be hit, especially the ones that aren't huge brands. If there's no revenue, how are teams going to fund a $70 million payroll, let alone $81 million?

Pierre McGuire on TSN1200.

“I’m going to caution everybody including Mark Borowiecki’s agent, these are way different times in the National Hockey League, and you’re just starting to see just a little ripple in the water. This is going to be a very different time financially for the league, and for a lot of member clubs in the league. I’m just telling you. The stories haven’t broken yet, but this is going to be a way different time for free agents, be a way different time for established players. You’re going to see some major cost-cutting around the National Hockey League, major, major cost-cutting. There are people writing stories now about this team laying off these people. You’re going to see a lot more. It’s going to trickle down to player’s salaries. This is a very different time in this league. It’s not getting enough exposure right now. I completely understand because of the playoffs. No one really wants to talk about it.

Other industries compensated through mass layoffs, which are impossible in the NHL on the ice. What is possible is declining qualifying offers, buyouts, and refusing to engage in anything other than take-it-or-leave offers to free agents.

How much can each individual owner afford to piss away?

Most people agree with the reality that all teams except a few franchises will have major challenges adjusting to the the stringent economics of the next couple of years.  A minority of teams such as Toronto and NY Rangers will have little difficulty in absorbing the revenue loss for the short term because of their more prosperous TV and radio revenue streams. 

What is most aggravating for a team like the Sabres is that under their prior GM the strategy was to put itself in a good position to bring in talent because other teams were not in a favorable cap position to retain a segment of their roster. That's where we were until the Covid issue came into play. Now the concern relates more to financial survivability than on ice optimization. 

I still believe that if our front office acts with creativity it can upgrade this team by moving some players and contracts out to bring in some players and contracts in to better balance this roster. What is frustrating is that the opportunities that we thought we were going to have entering the offseason will still be there only to a lot lesser extent. The moral of the story is to be more concerned about winning in the present than putting to much emphasis on building for the unpredictable future. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

20 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Since you failed to comprehend what I said:

If the Sabres end up trading Eichel the team relocates shortly thereafter and are as dead as my Whalers.

Why not just relocate with Eichel?:

What city would want an Eichel-less Sabres team? They're not that good with him. He would be the only selling point in a relocation bid except Dahlin.