Report Sabres Considering Internal Salary Cap

[nfreeman]

Oh FFS.  They aren't trading Eichel and they aren't moving.

Some people don't know how to be anything other than vituperative.

[Stoner]

Maybe TP will attend one of those rallies.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It might be a year where a lot of FAs who would normally be seeking long term for security will end up taking 1 yr. deals hoping for a normalization the following season. 

This right here is a huge benefit to the GMs that signed bridge deals that expired this season.  GMs are going to be able to play hardball during RFA (and UFA) negotiations, and it doesn't matter if it is a long-term or short-term deal.  There is so much out of their hands the next year or two (flat cap, no fans in the stands, global recession, etc) that agents don't have as much leverage in the past knowing GMs were going to have an extra couple million to play with next year.   I'm curious to see how/if this shows up in the arbitration awards.

This is the perfect storm for teams with cap space to make franchise altering deals.  There may 3-4 teams next year completely loaded with 1 or 2 year contracts that run the league, similar to what happens in the NBA (or so I hear).  And then in 2 years they will have all that cap space again, so it won't necessarily hurt them long-term if they make these deals in free-agency, or with late round draft picks.

Edited September 15, 2020 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Maybe TP will attend one of those rallies.

So you hope he catches a disease and dies?  How nice.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

This right here is a huge benefit to the GMs that signed bridge deals that expired this season.  GMs are going to be able to play hardball during RFA (and UFA) negotiations, and it doesn't matter if it is a long-term or short-term deal.  There is so much out of their hands the next year or two (flat cap, no fans in the stands, global recession, etc) that agents don't have as much leverage in the past knowing GMs were going to have an extra couple million to play with next year.   I'm curious to see how/if this shows up in the arbitration awards.

This is the perfect storm for teams with cap space to make franchise altering deals.  There may 3-4 teams next year completely loaded with 1 or 2 year contracts that run the league, similar to what happens in the NBA (or so I hear).  And then in 2 years they will have all that cap space again, so it won't necessarily hurt them long-term if they make these deals in free-agency, or with late round draft picks.

Everything I've seen indicates GMs don't expect that to be the case. it's why there is so much noise about walking away.

Reinhart walks in with the three richest contracts that have comparable stats to his, Adams walks in with the three cheapest. Arbitrator listens to their arguments and decides.

 

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Oh FFS.  They aren't trading Eichel and they aren't moving.

Some people don't know how to be anything other than vituperative.

In his 5 seasons Jack has played exactly as many seconds in a meaningful game as I have. That doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon and at some point if the nonsense doesn't end the penny will drop.

[spndnchz]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Oh FFS.  They aren't trading Eichel and they aren't moving.

Some people don't know how to be anything other than vituperative.

“word of the day” toilet paper?

[nfreeman]

31 minutes ago, sabremike said:

In his 5 seasons Jack has played exactly as many seconds in a meaningful game as I have. That doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon and at some point if the nonsense doesn't end the penny will drop.

Yes, Eichel will probably get fed up at some point if things don't improve, and yes, he might ask to be traded.  That doesn't mean the Sabres will grant his request -- especially in light of the debacle that ensued when it happened with ROR -- and it sure doesn't mean the team will relocate.

[Taro T]

18 hours ago, Thorny said:

I think people are underestimating how hard it would be to not only improve to the extent we want, but do it while slashing 6 million in budget from an already struggling team. Is this the pathway to revised expectations or are we actually thinking we can field a good-shot-at-the-playoffs roster for 75 mil?

What does that 6 mil cost us? Prevent us from adding? Prevent us from locking up in terms of years on a now hypothetical Reinhart contract?

I have to admit to being a little surprised by the overall reaction, speaking only for myself. It's shouldn't be close to doom and gloom, it's definitely something that I think can be made to work, but it's not as easy as the clever and arguably feasible roster re-work scenarios we draw up here - it's about upping the degree of difficulty for an enterprise that's already been struggling. I can only see it making things more difficult for Adams. 

It almost seems like we need to fall back on a, well, it didn't work when they WERE spending to the cap, might as well try without! type deal.

The scary thing heading into this is that Adams has no experience with bring a GM.   And the initial reaction was :censored: .   But, having an internal budget CAN work, but a lot of stuff has to go right & though we've all primarily focused on 2C, the goaltending absolutely has to be good.  They can't have a budget team with only mediocre goaltending.

The thing that makes $75MM not so bad is there will be a lot of teams in the same situation & players are going to be available that normally wouldn't have been available.  A true 2C has to be part of the off-season & and at least 1 (possibly 2) of the veteran RD need to be out the door to make $75 work.  But if those happen, having the internal budgetary constraints can force the GM to be judicious in his moves.  It worked in the '90's, very unexpectedly (even knowing how good Hasek was).

Having Dahlin, Jokiharju, & Cozens on ELC's help.  Having Olofsson, Kahun, Thompson, & Mittelstadt available on 2nd deals will also help.  Lazar will have to be useful again & Mittelstadt making a Pominville-like advance (or somebody that was in Ra-cha-cha doing so) would be huge.  But the 2C, goaltending, & staying relatively healthy are the keys.

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

Most people agree with the reality that all teams except a few franchises will have major challenges adjusting to the the stringent economics of the next couple of years.  A minority of teams such as Toronto and NY Rangers will have little difficulty in absorbing the revenue loss for the short term because of their more prosperous TV and radio revenue streams. 

What is most aggravating for a team like the Sabres is that under their prior GM the strategy was to put itself in a good position to bring in talent because other teams were not in a favorable cap position to retain a segment of their roster. That's where we were until the Covid issue came into play. Now the concern relates more to financial survivability than on ice optimization. 

I still believe that if our front office acts with creativity it can upgrade this team by moving some players and contracts out to bring in some players and contracts in to better balance this roster. What is frustrating is that the opportunities that we thought we were going to have entering the offseason will still be there only to a lot lesser extent. The moral of the story is to be more concerned about winning in the present than putting to much emphasis on building for the unpredictable future. 

😍🥰🤩

[sabremike]

23 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Yes, Eichel will probably get fed up at some point if things don't improve, and yes, he might ask to be traded.  That doesn't mean the Sabres will grant his request -- especially in light of the debacle that ensued when it happened with ROR -- and it sure doesn't mean the team will relocate.

We only have one hope:

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

This right here is a huge benefit to the GMs that signed bridge deals that expired this season.  GMs are going to be able to play hardball during RFA (and UFA) negotiations, and it doesn't matter if it is a long-term or short-term deal.  There is so much out of their hands the next year or two (flat cap, no fans in the stands, global recession, etc) that agents don't have as much leverage in the past knowing GMs were going to have an extra couple million to play with next year.   I'm curious to see how/if this shows up in the arbitration awards.

This is the perfect storm for teams with cap space to make franchise altering deals.  There may 3-4 teams next year completely loaded with 1 or 2 year contracts that run the league, similar to what happens in the NBA (or so I hear).  And then in 2 years they will have all that cap space again, so it won't necessarily hurt them long-term if they make these deals in free-agency, or with late round draft picks.

This is bad for us - re- Reinhart

27 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Yes, Eichel will probably get fed up at some point if things don't improve, and yes, he might ask to be traded.  That doesn't mean the Sabres will grant his request -- especially in light of the debacle that ensued when it happened with ROR -- and it sure doesn't mean the team will relocate.

If Eichel asks out seriously, they'll trade him. We all know that. I'm not saying he's going to ask out, but if your captain asks out, you are effed. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Three months in, we have no indication of what Adams intends to do with this roster other than vague indications of embedding analytics into the evaluation process, valuing players who are “hard to play against”, and paying more attention to team chemistry, as well as more concrete Indications of cutting dead weight from the hockey Department and empowering members of the holdovers.

4 minutes ago, sabremike said:

We only have one hope:

I guess Tage was in town for a golf tourney and is looking pretty buff.

At least Craig Rivet was excited.

[Thorner]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The scary thing heading into this is that Adams has no experience with bring a GM.   And the initial reaction was :censored: .   But, having an internal budget CAN work, but a lot of stuff has to go right & though we've all primarily focused on 2C, the goaltending absolutely has to be good.  They can't have a budget team with only mediocre goaltending.

The thing that makes $75MM not so bad is there will be a lot of teams in the same situation & players are going to be available that normally wouldn't have been available.  A true 2C has to be part of the off-season & and at least 1 (possibly 2) of the veteran RD need to be out the door to make $75 work.  But if those happen, having the internal budgetary constraints can force the GM to be judicious in his moves.  It worked in the '90's, very unexpectedly (even knowing how good Hasek was).

Having Dahlin, Jokiharju, & Cozens on ELC's help.  Having Olofsson, Kahun, Thompson, & Mittelstadt available on 2nd deals will also help.  Lazar will have to be useful again & Mittelstadt making a Pominville-like advance (or somebody that was in Ra-cha-cha doing so) would be huge.  But the 2C, goaltending, & staying relatively healthy are the keys.

It all amounts to another season where we head into it needing a LOT of things to bounce our way. We continually rely on best-case-scenarios to pave our road to success rather than building a functionally competent roster by conservative projection. 

Every offseason under Botts was exactly the same and until Adams proves otherwise (yes, the onus is quite assuredly on him) this feels like groundhog day.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It all amounts to another season where we head into it needing a LOT of things to bounce our way. We continually rely on best-case-scenarios to pave our road to success rather than building a functionally competent roster by conservative projection. 

Every offseason under Botts was exactly the same and until Adams proves otherwise (yes, the onus is quite assuredly on him) this feels like groundhog day.

Well, I think this has been a function of poor GM execution (and, TBF, poor selection of GMs), not an organizational philosophy.

We have no idea how well or how poorly KA will execute, but we'll have a much better idea in 30 days.

I'm optimistic. 

[Thorner]

If you don't think "building for the future" has been at or very near the top of this franchise's modus operandi for the majority of the last 10 years, I don't know what to say. 

They've actively prioritized the future over a win now mentality countless times. Botterill's very plan was a slow build "through Rochester" by his own admission. Murray seemed to be the exception but they canned him pretty quick after the tank was completed. 

Botterill's desire from the start was to "tear down to the studs" if we got Dahlin. I don't understand how it's still being argued that Botterill wasn't more focused on a long build. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It all amounts to another season where we head into it needing a LOT of things to bounce our way. We continually rely on best-case-scenarios to pave our road to success rather than building a functionally competent roster by conservative projection. 

Every offseason under Botts was exactly the same and until Adams proves otherwise (yes, the onus is quite assuredly on him) this feels like groundhog day.

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about The Botterill era was how infrequently things did bounce our way.

Dahlin lottery, first year Skinner, Olofsson, Jokiharju... can you think of other off-season hopes that were fully realized?

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about The Botterill era was how infrequently things did bounce our way.

Dahlin lottery, first year Skinner, Olofsson, Jokiharju... can you think of other off-season hopes that were fully realized?

I don't find it to be remarkable. When you place that many bets, the quantity of those failed is going to be high. 

He bet on Mittelstadt and Berglund to be 2C

He bet on Hutton

He bet on players on the downside of their careers (Sobotka, Berglund) to find their footing

He bet on a team becoming desperate enough to help us out with our RHD surplus

He bet on Johansson's ability to play centre when he hadn't showed it in years

He bet on players like Vesey, Frolik and Simmonds to jump start our depth

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Three months in, we have no indication of what Adams intends to do with this roster other than vague indications of embedding analytics into the evaluation process, valuing players who are “hard to play against”, and paying more attention to team chemistry, as well as more concrete Indications of cutting dead weight from the hockey Department and empowering members of the holdovers.

I guess Tage was in town for a golf tourney and is looking pretty buff.

At least Craig Rivet was excited.

Ever since Thompson became a member of the organization Craig has been infatuated with him. He's stated right from the start that it was going to take time for him to grow into his body. And he has felt that when that physical benchmark arrived he could be a second line forward. I sure hope that he is right. It's a shame that he got hurt last year. He certainly could have used that experience to help him develop his game.

[dudacek]

Just now, Thorny said:

I don't find it to be remarkable. When you place that many bets, the quantity of those failed is going to be high. 

I disagree. The odds should be 50/50.

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Perhaps the most remarkable thing about The Botterill era was how infrequently things did bounce our way.

Dahlin lottery, first year Skinner, Olofsson, Jokiharju... can you think of other off-season hopes that were fully realized?

You should have added the Kahun deal to your list. 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I disagree. The odds should be 50/50.

Why would the odds be 50/50? Look at the things I listed he bet on. The odds vary based on the likelihood of the desired scenario taking place

If the odds were 50/50, and we lost the amount of bets we made as a franchise purely by luck, Botterill should still be here. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

Look at the 19-20 roster. 

How many positions, of the 20 we field on game day, would one term "adequately filled"? How many players lived up the the role Botterill asked them to fill? 

He placed 20 roster bets and failed to convert on most of them. In 3 years. 

I ask you, if it's 50/50, does one believe if we ran this roster back, somehow, 100 times, we'd come out on the better end around half the time? 

Or that, if Botterill had 100 more shots at it from scratch irrespective of eachother, that his overall talent evaluation would come out positive half the time? 

He wasnt unlucky, he was actively bad, low-odds bet after low-odds bet

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thorny

[Stoner]

38 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Three months in, we have no indication of what Adams intends to do with this roster other than vague indications of embedding analytics into the evaluation process, valuing players who are “hard to play against”, and paying more attention to team chemistry, as well as more concrete Indications of cutting dead weight from the hockey Department and empowering members of the holdovers.

I guess Tage was in town for a golf tourney and is looking pretty buff.

At least Craig Rivet was excited.

Sabres: disappointing rookie is seen at golf tournament all jacked up

Bills: new head coach candidate is seen at airport all suited up

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things.

[Curt]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If you don't think "building for the future" has been at or very near the top of this franchise's modus operandi for the majority of the last 10 years, I don't know what to say. 

They've actively prioritized the future over a win now mentality countless times. Botterill's very plan was a slow build "through Rochester" by his own admission. Murray seemed to be the exception but they canned him pretty quick after the tank was completed. 

Two years after.  Not that quickly.

They were in win now mode during those years.