2020 United States Presidential Election

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

A few tweets making their rounds on the internet about making lists of Trump supporters in order to hold them “accountable”. I don’t see that working out too well. 

Yep. There are idiots on both sides.

[SABRES 0311]

4 hours ago, Ice Cold said:

First, let me greet everybody here.  I've been a long time reader.  Let me tell you what I appreciate about this discussion.  I feel like I am getting the unfiltered perspectives of Trump supporters like the above, without the usual bombastic postures found on social media, and in the media at large.  

I definitely stop short of waging war on Trump supporters or holding them accountable. 

Welcome aboard!

Both sides have extremely loud people who don’t seem to think before they speak. The same doom and gloom about Trump is starting about Biden. Im not well versed enough in politics to say if it’s just politics or if the number of emotionally frail people is on the rise for both sides. 

[LTS]

4 hours ago, Ice Cold said:

First, let me greet everybody here.  I've been a long time reader.  Let me tell you what I appreciate about this discussion.  I feel like I am getting the unfiltered perspectives of Trump supporters like the above, without the usual bombastic postures found on social media, and in the media at large.  

I've been asking myself these past few years what exactly Conservatism is.  What does it mean?  Here, I'm getting a better understanding than what I've found elsewhere.  Thank you for that to the Trump supporters here.  Perhaps you'd be better described as conservatives, rather than Trump supporters.  I feel like I'm able to see what your seeing, or get your perspective here, so to speak.

I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary.  In fact, I reluctantly changed my registration from Independent to Democrat, just so that I could vote for Sanders in NYS.   Because my number one issue is the environment, clearly, I was not going to vote for Trump in the general election.  

It made sense to me, pragmatically, to vote for Biden in the general election.  I came around to the idea that a more moderate candidate would be more electable.  Now that he's about to assume office, however, I'm more than happy for Democrats to drop any pretenses of moderation.  I believe that it's time for Democrats to wield power in the exact same opportunistic way that McConnell has been wielding it.  That means packing the Supreme Court, enacting the Green New Deal, and providing something closer to universal health care.  Winning the Senate and packing the Supreme Court are necessary first steps in order to get the other things accomplished.  

I definitely stop short of waging war on Trump supporters or holding them accountable.  Republicans had the power and they used it.  It seems right that Democrats should do the same and just steam-roll the opposition, though by that I don't mean in any way persecuting anybody.  Cheers!

 

Welcome to the board.. 

The continued escalation of "wielding power" is the problem.  Each cycle the party in charge will seek to enact more and more extreme legislation and thus force people further and further apart.

Our entire existence, and I don't just mean within the United States, is based on balance. Balance comes not from rocking things to their extremes but by finding ways to keep things in the middle.

What you prescribe would see each side rocking the proverbial boat until there's a point where it cannot be righted. The tipping point as it were. When all occupants of the boat are dumped into the water, causing chaos.

As a society, we're being pushed further and further from that middle  Whether it's left or right, rich or poor.. the middle has been eroded. Why?  Because no one likes the middle, it's boring.  The middle does not sell well.  The middle, average, whatever way you phrase it is not acceptable in this country. 

The concept that the "winning" party has the right to destroy the losers is the mentality we see in the Middle East. No one should be "rounding up" Trump supporters or making lists. The entire concept of "putting people on lists" invokes images of times that should never be repeated in the existence of humanity.

 

[Eleven]

17 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

A few tweets making their rounds on the internet about making lists of Trump supporters in order to hold them “accountable”. I don’t see that working out too well. 

Are these credible?

[Eleven]

My, how things change.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Eleven

[Weave]

53 minutes ago, Eleven said:

My, how things change.

I think they are trying to infect the President Elect.

 

Oh wait.  I just saw the date of that tweet.  Nevermind.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Weave

[SABRES 0311]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Are these credible?

 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

@AOC

US House candidate, NY-14

Is anyone archiving these Trump sycophants for when they try to downplay or deny their complicity in the future? I foresee decent probability of many deleted Tweets, writings, photos in the future

12:16 PM · Nov 6, 2020

k

Jennifer 'the people decide' Rubin

@JRubinBlogger

Any R now promoting rejection of an election or calling to not to follow the will of voters or making baseless allegations of fraud should never serve in office, join a corporate board, find a faculty position or be accepted into "polite" society. We have a list.

11:14 AM · Nov 6, 2020

[Eleven]

12 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

@AOC

US House candidate, NY-14

Is anyone archiving these Trump sycophants for when they try to downplay or deny their complicity in the future? I foresee decent probability of many deleted Tweets, writings, photos in the future

12:16 PM · Nov 6, 2020

k

Jennifer 'the people decide' Rubin

@JRubinBlogger

Any R now promoting rejection of an election or calling to not to follow the will of voters or making baseless allegations of fraud should never serve in office, join a corporate board, find a faculty position or be accepted into "polite" society. We have a list.

11:14 AM · Nov 6, 2020

Oh, that's not at all what I thought you were getting at.  I have no problems with most of this; the JRubin person is over the top though.  I thought you meant violence, not boycotting or tracking what people are doing to undermine the democratic process.  Thanks for clarifying.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Eleven

[SABRES 0311]

9 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Oh, that's not at all what I thought you were getting at.  I have no problems with most of this; the JRubin person is over the top though.  I thought you meant violence, not boycotting or tracking what people are doing to undermine the democratic process.  Thanks for clarifying.

Easy to justify until the other side starts doing it. 

[Eleven]

Just now, SABRES 0311 said:

Easy to justify until the other side starts doing it. 

Boycotting and tracking?  People have been doing it forever.  Undermining the democratic process?  No, that's special these last five years.

[SABRES 0311]

19 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Boycotting and tracking?  People have been doing it forever.  Undermining the democratic process?  No, that's special these last five years.

Yeah because the left hasn’t tried to target and intimidate people in the last couple of years. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Yeah because the left hasn’t tried to target and intimidate people in the last couple of years. 

You're going to have to show me the pictures of armed motorcades stopping the trump campaign bus.

I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

You're going to have to show me the pictures of armed motorcades stopping the trump campaign bus.

I can't seem to find it anywhere.

I can show you plenty of videos of leftists trying to scare people for not agreeing with their ideology. We can go back and forth but my point is that leftists act like they hold a moral high ground which is an absolute lie. Four years of accusing millions of people they don’t even know of being racist bigots is immoral IMO. Especially when Trump supporters consist of multiple races.

An example is what happens on this very board. Apparently every single person who voted for Trump enables hatred. Saying millions you don’t even know are a bunch of racist enablers is done out of hate, not morality. 

[SwampD]

6 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I can show you plenty of videos of leftists trying to scare people for not agreeing with their ideology. We can go back and forth but my point is that leftists act like they hold a moral high ground which is an absolute lie. Four years of accusing millions of people they don’t even know of being racist bigots is immoral IMO. Especially when Trump supporters consist of multiple races.

An example is what happens on this very board. Apparently every single person who voted for Trump enables hatred. Saying millions you don’t even know are a bunch of racist enablers is done out of hate, not morality. 

It's not done out of hate or morality. It's done out of fact.

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I can show you plenty of videos of leftists trying to scare people for not agreeing with their ideology. We can go back and forth but my point is that leftists act like they hold a moral high ground which is an absolute lie. Four years of accusing millions of people they don’t even know of being racist bigots is immoral IMO. Especially when Trump supporters consist of multiple races.

An example is what happens on this very board. Apparently every single person who voted for Trump enables hatred. Saying millions you don’t even know are a bunch of racist enablers is done out of hate, not morality. 

I feel like you are putting too many people in one bucket.  Leftists, the board, very broad strokes.

This is an issue with mass social media.  One person says something bombastic, and 10 million people can see it.  Of course the most extreme comments get the most attention.  The most extreme 5% of opinions on any topic can dominate the discussion of the subject.  The “silent majority” for lack of a better term, get buried.

Case in point, the bolded.  How many on this board actually said this?  Personally, I find Trump disgusting, and voting for him is enabling his callousness and disregard for his fellow humans, but I would never say the bolded.

 

[SABRES 0311]

29 minutes ago, Curt said:

I feel like you are putting too many people in one bucket.  Leftists, the board, very broad strokes.

This is an issue with mass social media.  One person says something bombastic, and 10 million people can see it.  Of course the most extreme comments get the most attention.  The most extreme 5% of opinions on any topic can dominate the discussion of the subject.  The “silent majority” for lack of a better term, get buried.

Case in point, the bolded.  How many on this board actually said this?  Personally, I find Trump disgusting, and voting for him is enabling his callousness and disregard for his fellow humans, but I would never say the bolded.

 

I made it to the bold and stopped. I’ve been told multiple times in this board EVERYONE who supports Trump supports racism, bigotry and hatred. It’s cool for others to use broad strokes but not me?

[SwampD]

20 minutes ago, Curt said:

I feel like you are putting too many people in one bucket.  Leftists, the board, very broad strokes.

This is an issue with mass social media.  One person says something bombastic, and 10 million people can see it.  Of course the most extreme comments get the most attention.  The most extreme 5% of opinions on any topic can dominate the discussion of the subject.  The “silent majority” for lack of a better term, get buried.

Case in point, the bolded.  How many on this board actually said this?  Personally, I find Trump disgusting, and voting for him is enabling his callousness and disregard for his fellow humans, but I would never say the bolded.

 

I kinda might be saying that.

Last election, race was dismissed. 

The wall had nothing to do with jobs. He quoted a known hate speech from the 60s. He has called a bunch of kkk demonstrators “really great people.” He inspired one known hate group enough to update their website putting his words on it.

If that isn’t enabling and even emboldening racism I don’t know what is.

[SABRES 0311]

39 minutes ago, SwampD said:

It's not done out of hate or morality. It's done out of fact.

Reminds of post 9/11 when small uncultured minds thought all Muslims were evil without understanding the people. 

[Curt]

17 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I made it to the bold and stopped. I’ve been told multiple times in this board EVERYONE who supports Trump supports racism, bigotry and hatred. It’s cool for others to use broad strokes but not me?

Nice.  You dismissed the opportunity to find common ground with someone who agrees with you.

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I made it to the bold and stopped. I’ve been told multiple times in this board EVERYONE who supports Trump supports racism, bigotry and hatred. It’s cool for others to use broad strokes but not me?

Noone called you a racist.  They said you were enabling a racist. It's the simple definition of the word "enabling".  By voting for someone who encourages bigotry you are assisting to put them into a position that allows them to continue encouraging bigotry.  You are likely not a bigot and racist, and probably voted for Trump for some other reason, but the act of voting for him is helping to put him in a position where he can continue his bigoted behavior.   That is classic enabling.  Did the end justify the means?  If so, then own it.

For example, Bill Clinton.  Those that voted for him the second time around prioritized something over his White House sexual escapades.  If you voted for 2nd term Clinton, you were by definition enabling his behavior.  Those voters weren't cheating dirtbags necessarily, but they sure enabled one. Again, if the end justified the means, own it.  You voted for a dirtbag because you prioritized something higher than the character of the candidate.  Doesn't mean you have the same character.  It does mean you found that character acceptable enough to choose something else as your deciding issue.

 

Editing to add- Enabling is the right word for supporting a candidates good things too.  You vote for a candidate because you like his tax plan and by voting for him you are enabling him to act on it.  Or maybe the tax plan is your trigger item but he also want to start Space Force.  By voting for him for his tax plan you are enabling him to go down the Space Force path too.  Enabling cuts both ways.

 

giggle, giggle.  Space Force

Bwahahahahahahaha!

Edited November 11, 2020 by Weave

[SwampD]

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

Noone called you a racist.  They said you were enabling a racist. It's the simple definition of the word "enabling".  By voting for someone who encourages bigotry you are assisting to put them into a position that allows them to continue encouraging bigotry.  You are likely not a bigot and racist, and probably voted for Trump for some other reason, but the act of voting for him is helping to put him in a position where he can continue his bigoted behavior.   That is classic enabling.  Did the end justify the means?  If so, then own it.

For example, Bill Clinton.  Those that voted for him the second time around prioritized something over his White House sexual escapades.  If you voted for 2nd term Clinton, you were by definition enabling his behavior.  Those voters weren't cheating dirtbags necessarily, but they sure enabled one. Again, if the end justified the means, own it.  You voted for a dirtbag because you prioritized something higher than the character of the candidate.  Doesn't mean you have the same character.  It does mean you found that character acceptable enough to choose something else as your deciding issue.

 

Editing to add- Enabling is the right word for supporting a candidates good things too.  You vote for a candidate because you like his tax plan and by voting for him you are enabling him to act on it.  Or maybe the tax plan is your trigger item but he also want to start Space Force.  By voting for him for his tax plan you are enabling him to go down the Space Force path too.  Enabling cuts both ways.

 

giggle, giggle.  Space Force

Bwahahahahahahaha!

I’m actually pro Space Force.

[Weave]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

I’m actually pro Space Force.

I'm pro BJ's, but probably wouldn't make a good Presidential candidate.

[LGR4GM]

So the Pennsylvania person recanted their fake story about fraud. Amazing. And now the Lt Gov of Texas is offering money for fraud allegations... I'm sorry but who's trying to steal this election because it is pretty blatantly Republicans at this point. 

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, Ice Cold said:

Thanks!  There's something in your posts and Wookie's that I can empathize with, which is, the feeling that the other side - social justice warrior, woke leftist, transgender activist, etc. - is trying to ostracize you/us.  (White male here) they are putting us in a position where we might feel the need to defend ourselves.  Culturally, white males, and white women to some extent - Karens - are being villainized.

I should jump in here, before someone tries to cancel me, that I realize that people who are black, gay, native american, name your minority, have been discriminated against historically far far worse than what we might be experiencing.  That said, it wasn't me or you that perpetuated a history of racism, so why are we being demonized?

My response to this isn't to vote for Trump, though.  Rather it's to ignore the false accusations, because I believe I can support issues that benefit people regardless of race or sexual orientation.  My question is how can conservatives promote the ideals of equal opportunity, and equal justice, or can they?   

     

To start conservatives shouldn’t riot when Biden is formally declared the winner. They shouldn’t burn innocent people’s businesses or intimidate people minding their own business and act like it’s promoting racial equality. They shouldn’t act like an 11 year old boy dancing in a strip club promotes LGBT equality. If conservatives want to go after a liberal politician’s questionable relationship with a foreign entity they better make sure they go after their politicians who have the same issue. 

 

[LTS]

20 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I can show you plenty of videos of leftists trying to scare people for not agreeing with their ideology. We can go back and forth but my point is that leftists act like they hold a moral high ground which is an absolute lie. Four years of accusing millions of people they don’t even know of being racist bigots is immoral IMO. Especially when Trump supporters consist of multiple races.

An example is what happens on this very board. Apparently every single person who voted for Trump enables hatred. Saying millions you don’t even know are a bunch of racist enablers is done out of hate, not morality. 

I believe this.  Leftist extremists have been involved in incidents of violence.  Neither side holds a morale high ground. The problem is that those who identify as Republicans are currently enabling the behavior of the head of their party which is calling for violence and hatred.  The head of the Democratic party is not.

People who support Trump are enablers of his behavior and as I have said before. People are choosing to support that maniac and his minions because they'd rather see him in office than a Democrat.  They're fine with four more years of their party being represented by a wanna-be dictator.  This is what is not cool to me.  If I were a Republican I would be completely pissed at my party for having supported that turd for so long.  He is a disgrace to humanity and to this country.

I would feel the same way if we had the equivalent person in office but it was a Democrat. 

This country has been led by Republicans and Democrats and it's largely been fine until the past 4 years when the entire world just started laughing at the United States. We became a joke overnight. How can ANYONE support that?

3 hours ago, Ice Cold said:

Thanks!  There's something in your posts and Wookie's that I can empathize with, which is, the feeling that the other side - social justice warrior, woke leftist, transgender activist, etc. - is trying to ostracize you/us.  (White male here) they are putting us in a position where we might feel the need to defend ourselves.  Culturally, white males, and white women to some extent - Karens - are being villainized.

I should jump in here, before someone tries to cancel me, that I realize that people who are black, gay, native american, name your minority, have been discriminated against historically far far worse than what we might be experiencing.  That said, it wasn't me or you that perpetuated a history of racism, so why are we being demonized?

My response to this isn't to vote for Trump, though.  Rather it's to ignore the false accusations, because I believe I can support issues that benefit people regardless of race or sexual orientation.  My question is how can conservatives promote the ideals of equal opportunity, and equal justice, or can they?   

     

I understand where you are coming from, but I think you look at historical racism and ignore the racism that exists in front of you every day.  Yes, the extremer left would like to say "you either are actively against racism or you are a racist."  That's grade A BS right there. 

While everyone is created equal in the eyes of the law (as written on paper) they are not equal in the practice of it.  We do need to continue to work against that. Perhaps not by marching on the Capitol in Albany. But we cannot accept continued systemic racism and policies that continue to work towards enabling it.  By no means do I think there isn't work to be done all across the board. But the one thing I am positive of is that as we continue on this path towards separation and escalation, things will not get better.