OT: sports and politics - more nuance than we think

[Marvin]

If this belongs in the politics board, please feel free to move it.

I want to point out that politics and sports have never been separate except in our minds.

The entire 20th century of sports was subsumed within the political problems of the day.   For instance, it is flat out delusional to ignore the Cold War, stagflation, and the Iran Hostage Crisis when someone my age remembers the Miracle on Ice so fondly.

Other examples are too easy to think of: the 1936 Olympics, the creation of women's competitive sports, the propaganda of the Cold War in international tournaments, the eventual acceptance of South American, then African, and now Asian teams in the World Cup of Football, to now with the #BlackLivesMatter protests.  The mix of politics and sport is not new.

There is also no purity of sport, except in our childhoods.  Owners treated the players like dirt until Curtis Flood sued to create free agency.  We thought about how great it would be to play for the Sabres.  Meanwhile, Mike Robitaille used to pump gas in the off-season because he was borderline illiterate and couldn't get another job.

Competition begets toxic competitiveness in some people, so Canadians excuse Bobby Clarke for breaking Kharlamov's ankle in the 1972 Summit Series.  Canadians also accepted not having Bobby Hull and others on Team Canada while the Soviets had a player boycott because of the power struggle lost by Tarasov.

In the 1990's, I as an expatriate Buffalonian was expected to take verbal abuse and apologise for bringing the country down because the Bills lost 4 Super Bowls.  In grad school, a Buffalo Bills coat was an open invitation for people to throw iceballs at me or to try and run me over with their cars.  I quit playing bridge because some novices violated the ACBL's rules on behaviour to openly denigrate me at a game in Columbus Ohio because I was a Bills fan.  For some reason, being a Bills fan meant I wasn't as good a bridge player as the guy who trained Meckstroth-Rodwell thought I was and that I needed to be put in my place.

More coming.

 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Lmfao.

Every power structure in this country is solemnly siding with these brave, heroic players, who cannot fathom why a good man trying to give his kids lolipops or some BS was shot in the back. Every major print and news media platform, sans one (1) tv station that is widely ridiculed by the rest in its own right, every single social media and internet service, owned by the most powerful entities in human history, who happily squash milquetoast opposition from this meaningful public square discussion, every single academic in every single university, along with every major corporation donating sums of money larger than most countries' GDPs to this "cause," while every single local official at every level of government in these locations tacitly endorses and allows and embraces the ensuing violence, while police stand down as your grandpa is beaten with 2x4s while defending his livelihood as it goes up in flames.  

What ***** planet are you people on.

Imagine a man whose history includes pulling guns in confrontations, having a loaded weapon stashed in his car discovered upon finally being corralled after violently interacting with police in previous iterations of his legal troubles, who had an outstanding warrant for sexual assault, which the cops were made aware of upon arriving on call because he was violating a restraining order against a woman. Imagine this man aggressively resisting arrest, fighting through being tased, escalating past all reasonable warnings given by cops, escaping their embrace, and aggressively sauntering over to that side of the car, at gunpoint this entire time, ignoring all of these orders nonstop, chance after chance. He gets into the car, starts to turn, and was found to be going for his knife - but had it been the previously stashed loaded weapon, and had cops waited a millisecond longer, bullets would be spraying in every direction on a crowded street with kids in the car right next to them. Cops know this, and have to react accordingly, after they've exhausted all other options. Imagine the sheer lack of comprehension you must have to have in your brain to not understand what all of these actions will lead to in the face of the situation you are inexplicably escalating beyond the bounds any sane man would dare approach? Imagine not simply complying in this situation? Nobody who sits and makes these asinine judgments from their cozy lives would ever come within a ***** light year of acting this way in this situation.

 Either this man is genuinely missing his prefrontal cortex, or he understands that rather than going to prison where he will be treated how people who sexually assault get treated in prison, he has a chance at being given millions upon millions of dollars along with forever-hero status by supposedly nonexistent real world and cultural power structures. Just like George Floyd's abandoned family. Saint George, the man who had enough fentanyl in his system to kill a horse without the cocktail of meth, weed, and alcohol he was also on, who overdosed while in the restraint correctly taught and sanctioned by the MPD, though the links on their website to the studies that justify its use were scrubbed by the power arms, along with the footage and knowledge of his aggressive resistance being deleted from texts by the power arm in the AG position. These are your heroes. They didn't do nothin. Why do these pig cops who work peacefully within these communities for decades then just suddenly decide to snap and shoot brown people one day, even though it will literally ruin their lives and the lives of their families forever because of these cultural and political forces??? That is some dedicated raycissssssm!!!! Truly.

I want a cop taking those shots every single time. This was accurate risk assessment in split second temporal spans that most "community watch group" advocates would spend simply shitting their pants and crying, while their surroundings crumble into ruins and their ancestors turn away in disgust.

Meanwhile, we get to deal with the result of this garbage setting race relations back decades, here in the real world. Such that every time some absolutely revolting demon of a person decides to violently resist arrest and put everyone around them in danger, we get our towns burned down. So brave though, Lebron, tweeting about how whitey needs to teach their kids how to not hunt blacks on the street for fun! If only this guy knew how to move past page 2 of the books he is intensely reading in his social media photos, or how to read a ***** bar graph. Good lord almighty. 9 unarmed blacks shot by cops last year, all justified except one, and the cop is in prison for murder in that case. On the order of dozens of millions of police/civilian interactions each year, this corresponds to one second out of your next few years of life. Systemic. 

assert: racism
National-level multivariate regression with like 5 controls out of infinite real world variables, ie, beyond useless: excellent, a 4% outcome discrepancy (that subsequent studies can make vanish by choosing one more control, but we don't talk about that)
therefore science shows: systemic oppression and systemic raycizm
stack of anecdotes: wildly distorted, flagrantly false, deliberately misleading, ready to go (With a dash of Ben ***** Crump witness ***** fraud) 
profit (and i mean serious, serious profit for all parties involved. life changing)

Wew! Read the room sweetie. You did a racism, you did a colonialism. Check yourself, check your privilege. 

I can't wait for the rotting corpses of Minneapolis, Seattle, Kenosha etc. to be shown as examples of "white flight" ten years down the line by smarmy retards pretending that their overproduced useless degrees mean something. When businesses won't reopen because insurance companies watched all local officials let them burn last time. You guys are the biggest, most pathetic and traitorous frauds Earth has ever seen. Proper controls on any statistical analysis make all of your precious gaps, without which your worldview could not exist, vanish, in a way that would make Richard Dawkins proud, and then you're left with nothing but the obscene and despicable primal behaviors of a tiny fraction of people you will stop the earth to defend for reasons no sane person would ever understand. Your studies are junk, your concepts are junk, and your overwhelming narcissism and superiority complexes when discussing these topics are beyond tiresome, and your self-flagellation to attain social status points is an embarrassment. 

Should I hit submit on this post? There's no going back. If I hit it I'm probably not coming back to this forum, or to the internet. Because off the internet is where you can find millions of sane people, who have also compiled years of pent up astonishment, disbelief, and rage that such a historically illiterate and incompetent country, people, movement can exist at this level of power and influence. I sat down tonight to take my mind off of things and relax, and instead was greeted with midwit takes I grew past as a teenager, from self-absorbed athletes pretending they're novel and interesting ideas, and not endlessly tiresome and statistically illiterate tropes. I have seen the ledge that takes people overboard with less to lose than I have, and I am done. I guess I will hit submit.
 

I mean that really got out of hand. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Marvin]

I have complicated views.  Every police(wo)man I have met wants their precinct to be as clean as the ol' one-two from Barney Miller.  That is one of the hardest jobs I can imagine, so I contribute to any fundraiser they have when I can.  Thus, when I went protesting, I wore a mask and worked with police to weed out potential trouble-makers.

I have also been so mistreated by police that sometimes, I need to listen to It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. Fear of a Black Planet, and Straight Outta Compton every now and then like I had to after the Kenosha shootings.  Thus, I also support #BlackLivesMatter and the protests of the players.

I was the first non-Caucasian in Amherst.  As such, I am the most westernised of the orthodox Sikhs in the area.  Thus, I feel a responsibility to those who don't interact with the general community as much to teach them how to mix and assimilate better, speak up for them when they don't know how or can't, and, in short, lead.  I speak at interfaith gatherings around town to try and increase understanding amidst all the division.  Being the person with the "A" or "C" on your figurative jersey is hard.

I understand that they feel because they have the means, visibility, and platform to do so, they feel the responsibility to protest for those who can't afford it.  They are not protesting just for themselves -- even those who had their legs broken, heads beaten, and the like -- they are the voice of those without a say.  They know that they need to be Tommie Smiths and Juan Carloses of this day and age.

The players have the same problems I do magnified thousands-fold.  I totally feel what LeBron James tweeted about the shooting -- while a white killer of two was brought peacefully into custody by the same police department the same night.  That is ludicrous -- the injustice of the difference was a bridge too far.

It does not matter if you like it or not; they feel that responsibility to their voiceless fellows -- period.  There was already opposition to even restarting.  They restarted in good faith with the hope that their peaceful protests would stop crap like Kenosha.  From their point of view, their peaceful, quiet protest did exactly nothing.  Their conclusion is action that incurs the broad rant of @Randall Flagg is all we have left.

[Wyldnwoody44]

[Marvin]

Let me let you in on a secret: the only difference between me and the rioters is my financial situation.

I am not going to excuse anything I have done.   But I understand race riots from the inside.  I have been angry enough to lash out.  If you have not had that barely-concealed, always simmering anger at authority figures who persistently harass and harm you and your friends for no reason, you probably won't get it.  Songs like "911 is a Joke", "**** the Police", and "Fight the Power" are your anthems.  So before you make too many generalisations about them, ask a fellow Sabres fan about it.  And I guarantee that the players feel that too.  And I went to the hospital, got sedation, and now see a therapist and a psychiatrist to deal with it.

Sometimes, in righteous anger, you take pride in what you did.  I brag about why I am banned from the Smithsonian.  I am proud that alt-righters threatened my life at a 2nd amendment rally.

So the rants and lectures that we should just let everything be are wasted on us.  (I use "us" here because the players, protesters, etc. speak for me too.)  We have heard them our whole lives.  If we are going to be boycotted, murdered, etc., we might as well go down fighting for something worth the price.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Look how fired up some white folk got that they couldn’t watch hockey for one night.

I can’t even imagine how ugly it would get if they got pulled over for no reason and got shot in the back while unarmed.

Just so you know, he wasn't exactly an innocent man. But innocent until proven guilty truly seems to be a lost art in this day and age.

 

That being said, why the cop fired 7 times into the guy at point blank range makes no sense. 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Look how fired up some white folk got that they couldn’t watch hockey for one night.

I can’t even imagine how ugly it would get if they got pulled over for no reason and got shot in the back while unarmed.

I must comment.

Every time a cop pulls me over and I am not with my wife, I surreptitiously call her on the phone and leave the line open in case I die.

Who else thinks about this?

Thanks, SwampD.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Marvin, Sabres Fan

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I must comment.

Every time a cop pulls me over and I am not with my wife, I surreptitiously call her on the phone and leave the line open in case I die.

Do you think about this?

Nope. And I understand why you do.

[Marvin]

34 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Ugh, iCarly?

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Just so you know, he wasn't exactly an innocent man. But innocent until proven guilty truly seems to be a lost art in this day and age.

 

That being said, why the cop fired 7 times into the guy at point blank range makes no sense. 

Wasn't there and haven't heard the cop's side of the story, but would expect the # of shots had something to do with the suspect having been tased to no effect shortly before he walked around the car and the fact that they seemed to believe he had at least a knife on him & feared he was reaching for a gun.

Expect that we'll hear why so many shots sometime down the line.  My understanding is they're taught to fire 4-5 rounds if they decide they need to fire.  The extra 2-3 rounds, again, were likely due to his shrugging off the taser.  Have heard many anecdotal stories about people on PCP being extremely resilient when injured; would expect other drugs can have similar effects.

And, though 7 shots would seem like serious overkill on the surface, the fact that many bullets didn't kill him suggest that fewer shots might have resulted in a dead cop.

Would also like to hear his explanation of why he didn't stop earlier & reached into the car.  Regardless of skin color, there is a bit of a "suicide by cop" vibe at that point.  Hoping that's not the intent; but at least he's alive and we can hear his side of the story as well.

[PerreaultForever]

Since nfreeman always mutes me and threatens to ban me for even the slightest political type comment in any thread are all of you going to be warned and muted now? Just wondering. Or is there a double standard.

Oh wait, double standards, isn't that what you're all talking about. the black guy who MIGHT have been reaching for a weapon was shot in the back 7 times, the white guy (Rittenhouse) who DID SHOOT people was taken into custody. Funny how that was handled differently. 

This stuff is so pervasive and so obvious I really don't know how anyone can still question the obvious. 

As for athletes making political statements, good for them. Part of a democracy is people speaking out and fighting injustices, everyone, athletes included.Cancel all and every sport if it helps bring about change. 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Since nfreeman always mutes me and threatens to ban me for even the slightest political type comment in any thread are all of you going to be warned and muted now? Just wondering. Or is there a double standard.

Oh wait, double standards, isn't that what you're all talking about. the black guy who MIGHT have been reaching for a weapon was shot in the back 7 times, the white guy (Rittenhouse) who DID SHOOT people was taken into custody. Funny how that was handled differently. 

This stuff is so pervasive and so obvious I really don't know how anyone can still question the obvious. 

As for athletes making political statements, good for them. Part of a democracy is people speaking out and fighting injustices, everyone, athletes included.Cancel all and every sport if it helps bring about change. 

The police had attempted to take the man that was shot into custody via non-lethal force, going so far as to taser him prior to the video showing him walking around the car beginning.  It wasn't until he made what the cop quite apparently thought was a move for a weapon that the cop fired.  

Haven't heard/read any reports of how the kid in Kenosha was arrested, but would expect that we'll find he didn't point the gun at the police nor make any moves that made the police expect that their lives might be in danger.

Was taught a long time ago and have taught my children that if pulled over not to do something that will make the cop feel endangered as there is no good outcome from that.  (e.g., keep your hands in plain sight with no threatening motions, make no sudden movements, prior to reaching for anything state/explain what you're doing and why, if you are told not to do that then don't do it)  Had Mr. Blake been given & heeded that advice, he would not be hospitalized at present.  And likely Kenosha would not be burning.

And, fwiw, when 1st watching the video of Mr. Blake's encounter was as shocked as anyone seeing the shots fired.  But then, tried to see things from the officer's pov, and the action doesn't seem as out of the blue as it initially seemed.  Have also tried to see things from Mr. Blake's pov and just can't understand his going back into the car expecting a positive outcome.  Hopefully we'll hear his side eventually and he can tell us why he did it.

My 2 cents.  Ymmv.

[Weave]

Kid in Kenosha walked right by the cops, rifle on display, as a shooting just occurred, and the cops never stopped him to inquire.  Of course the ensuing arrest well after the fact was peaceful.

The optics are just awful, regardless.  And so many of these have come out on on top of another.  All explained away in many circles.  At some point the optics of it dominate.  You can’t expect this many unarmed people to get shot and not have significant push back.

[PerreaultForever]

So all this got moved? I guess that in and of itself makes a statement. Can't have that real world political talk mixing with our beloved sports can we. I guess that's "law and order" in Sabrespace lol. 

The optics are awful and it's all endemic. It's even in the language. Black guys with guns downtown is a gang. White guys is a militia. Tougher looking black guys on a corner are "thugs." Tougher looking white guys on a corner are "good 'ol boys." and on and on it goes. 

The biggest piece of bs for me is all the right wing talk about cops being "the best of us" and "America's finest." What a joke. Anybody know any best and brightest who became cops? I imagine there's a few outliers but overall I remember the guys from my high school who became cops and they were far from the "best." 

 

[bob_sauve28]

I was wondering where this went! 

[Zamboni]

Some how, some way, Buffalo politicians or the dictator of NY will sn atch defeat from the jaws of victory on this one 😂😕

Edited October 24, 2020 by Zamboni

[Cal Naughton Jr]

It’s ok guys. A guy I work with told me that all this stuff will be over after the election. So we won’t have to worry about bubbles and all that stuff

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

It’s ok guys. A guy I work with told me that all this stuff will be over after the election. So we won’t have to worry about bubbles and all that stuff

A guy I work with told me this was a hoax. Then he told me it would be gone by Easter. Then he said the heat of the summer would kill it. Now he’s saying there will a be a vaccine around next week and not to worry. 

[drnkirishone]

4 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

A guy I work with told me this was a hoax. Then he told me it would be gone by Easter. Then he said the heat of the summer would kill it. Now he’s saying there will a be a vaccine around next week and not to worry. 

did he also say no one has done more for "the blacks" compared to him?  Or that his favorite book is the bible and when asked for his favorite passage did he say he had to many to say one? wait... did he ever tell some people that when you are a star you can do anything and just grab em by the ***** cause they let you?

I think we may be talking about the same guy.

[Cal Naughton Jr]

This must be where comments go to die?

[Weave]

28 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

This must be where comments go to die?

Yes, this is the Sabrespace equivalent of Saint Helena Island.  If you dare to post an opinion counter to one that is tolerated the post comes here to be ignored.