IKnowPhysics Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) A thread to discuss the salary cap and contracts as we posture into qualifying offers and free agency. The salary cap for 2020-21 is $81.5M. As of today, 8/20/20, the Sabres numbers are as follows: The total 2019-20 NHL roster, not including LTIR: 13F, 7D, 2G. Cap committed to NHL players under contract (4F, 5D, 1G), totaling $46.225M of salary: Eichel, $10M Skinner, $9M Okposo, $6M Marcus Johansson, $4.5 Ristolainen, $5.4M Miller, $3.875M McCabe, $2.85M Dahlin, $0.925M Jokiharju, $0.925M Hutton, $2.75M Buyout: Hodgson, $0.792M For RFAs and UFAs and non-rostered players, this leaves $81.5M - $46.225M - $0.792M = $34.483M RFAs (4F, 2D, 1G) and previous salary, totaling $12.605M, and minimum qualifying offers, totaling $12.4975M: Reinhart, $3.65M - min $3.75M Kahun, $0.925M - min $0.8325M Olofsson, $0.7675 - min $0.7M Lazar, $0.7M - min $0.7M Montour, $3.3875M - min $3.525M Pilut, $0.925M - min $0.8325M Ullmark, $1.325M - min $1.325M Thompson (currently on LTIR), $0.925M - min $0.8325M UFAs (5F, 0D, 0G) and previous salary, totaling $17.975M: Simmonds, $2.5M Frolik, $4.3M Vesey, $2.275M Girgensens, $1.6M Larsson, $1.55M Sobotka (currently on LTIR), $3.5M Hunwick (currently on LTIR), $2.25M Non-rostered players and NHL cap hit if rostered (doesn't include UFAs): Oglevie, RFA - min QO $0.8325M Cozens, $0.85M Ruotsalainen, $0.925M Mittelstadt, RFA - min QO $0.8325M Asplund, $0.845M Pekar, $0.77833 Dea, $0.7M CJ Smith, $0.7M Remi, RFA - min QO $0.7M Murray, $0.775M Biro, $0.925M DiPietro $0.75M Hickey, RFA - min QO $0.8325M Bryson, $0.889M Borgen, $0.864M Fitzgerald, $0.858M Spencer, RFA - min QO $0.7M Samualsson, $0.925M Laaksonen, $0.853M UPL, $0.778 Jonas Johansson, RFA - min QO $0.7M Capfriendly chart: Contracts quantity rules: Maximum number of contracts, including NHL, LTIR, non-NHL players, and signed players returned to juniors, but not unsigned draft picks: 50. Minimum 24. Maximum active players on an NHL roster: 23. Maximum dressed players: 20. Edited August 21, 2020 by IKnowPhysics Performance ***** 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) (Now fixed the performance bonus error.) A hypothetical example 2020-21 salary cap scenario might look like the above contracted players (4F, 5D, 1G): $34.483M in space And retaining all RFAs except Pilut (4F, 1D, 1G), totaling $19.15M (8F, 6D, 2G), leaving $15.333M: Reinhart, $3.65M - min $3.75M - signed fo $7M Kahun, $0.925M - min $0.8325M - signed for $1.25M Olofsson, $0.7675 - min $0.7M - signed for $3.5M Lazar, $0.7M - min $0.7M - signed for $0.9M Montour, $3.3875M - min $3.525M - signed for $4M Pilut, $0.925M - min $0.8325M - ? Ullmark, $1.325M - min $1.325M - signed for $1.5M Thompson (currently on LTIR), $0.925M - min $0.8325M - signed for $1M Calling up (2F, 0D, 0G), leaving $13.408M : Mittelstadt, RFA - min QO $0.8325M - signed for $1M Ruotsaleinen - $0.925M With UFAs (2F, 0D, 0G), totaling $3.6M (10F, 6D, 2G), leaving $9.808M : Girgensens, $1.6M - signed for $1.8M Larsson, $1.55M - signed for $1.8M And then $9M of the $9.808M spent on three players: Bringing up Cozens, $0.925M 2C - $6M 3LHD - $2.075M This hypothetical example sets the lines at Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart Olofsson - 2C - Johansson Girgensens - Larsson - Okposo Cozens - Lazar - Kahun (Ruotsalainen - Mittelstadt - Thompson) Montour - Dahlin McCabe - Ristolainen 3LHD - Jokiharju (Miller) Hutton - Ullmark In practicality, you wouldn't carry the three salaries of Ruotsaleinen, Mittelstadt, and Thompson (~$3M) all at the same time; this frees up shoulder room for the 2C and 3LHD. And the RFA signings will assuredly vary from what I've written. And realistically, we're likely trading and making other moves, which can free up space, but this is sort of the default of what Botterill has left us with. Edited August 21, 2020 by IKnowPhysics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said: A hypothetical example 2020-21 salary cap scenario might look like the above contracted players (4F, 5D, 1G): $31M in space And retaining all RFAs except Pilut (4F, 1D, 1G), totaling $19.15M (8F, 6D, 2G), leaving $11.85M: Reinhart, $3.65M - min $3.75M - signed fo $7M Kahun, $0.925M - min $0.8325M - signed for $1.25M Olofsson, $0.7675 - min $0.7M - signed for $3.5M Lazar, $0.7M - min $0.7M - signed for $0.9M Montour, $3.3875M - min $3.525M - signed for $4M Pilut, $0.925M - min $0.8325M - ? Ullmark, $1.325M - min $1.325M - signed for $1.5M Thompson (currently on LTIR), $0.925M - min $0.8325M - signed for $1M Calling up (2F, 0D, 0G), leaving $9.925M : Mittelstadt, RFA - min QO $0.8325M - signed for $1M Ruotsaleinen - $0.925M With UFAs (2F, 0D, 0G), totaling $3.6M (10F, 6D, 2G), leaving $6.325M : Girgensens, $1.6M - signed for $1.8M Larsson, $1.55M - signed for $1.8M And then $6M of the $6.325 spent on three players: Bringing up Cozens, $0.925M 2C - $3.15M 3LHD - $2M This hypothetical example sets the lines at Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart Olofsson - 2C - Johansson Girgensens - Larsson - Okposo Cozens - Lazar - Kahun (Ruotsalainen - Mittelstadt - Thompson) Montour - Dahlin McCabe - Ristolainen 3LHD - Jokiharju (Miller) Hutton - Ullmark In practicality, you wouldn't carry the three salaries of Ruotsaleinen, Mittelstadt, and Thompson (~$3M) all at the same time; this frees up room for the 2C and 3LHD. And the RFA signings will assuredly vary from what I've written. And realistically, we're likely trading and making other moves, which can free up space, but this is sort of the default of what Botterill has left us with. If they really only have $3.1MM for the 2C, they really are hosed. And, it just lends more credence to one of the RHD being a key piece going out for the 2C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 I wouldn't fret too much, as this assumes we qualify everyone except Pilut and we don't make any moves. It's just a starting point, which we already felt was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, IKnowPhysics said: A hypothetical example 2020-21 salary cap scenario might look like the above contracted players (4F, 5D, 1G): $31M in space And retaining all RFAs except Pilut (4F, 1D, 1G), totaling $19.15M (8F, 6D, 2G), leaving $11.85M: Reinhart, $3.65M - min $3.75M - signed fo $7M Kahun, $0.925M - min $0.8325M - signed for $1.25M Olofsson, $0.7675 - min $0.7M - signed for $3.5M Lazar, $0.7M - min $0.7M - signed for $0.9M Montour, $3.3875M - min $3.525M - signed for $4M Pilut, $0.925M - min $0.8325M - ? Ullmark, $1.325M - min $1.325M - signed for $1.5M Thompson (currently on LTIR), $0.925M - min $0.8325M - signed for $1M Calling up (2F, 0D, 0G), leaving $9.925M : Mittelstadt, RFA - min QO $0.8325M - signed for $1M Ruotsaleinen - $0.925M With UFAs (2F, 0D, 0G), totaling $3.6M (10F, 6D, 2G), leaving $6.325M : Girgensens, $1.6M - signed for $1.8M Larsson, $1.55M - signed for $1.8M And then $6M of the $6.325 spent on three players: Bringing up Cozens, $0.925M 2C - $3.15M 3LHD - $2M This hypothetical example sets the lines at Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart Olofsson - 2C - Johansson Girgensens - Larsson - Okposo Cozens - Lazar - Kahun (Ruotsalainen - Mittelstadt - Thompson) Montour - Dahlin McCabe - Ristolainen 3LHD - Jokiharju (Miller) Hutton - Ullmark In practicality, you wouldn't carry the three salaries of Ruotsaleinen, Mittelstadt, and Thompson (~$3M) all at the same time; this frees up room for the 2C and 3LHD. And the RFA signings will assuredly vary from what I've written. And realistically, we're likely trading and making other moves, which can free up space, but this is sort of the default of what Botterill has left us with. Something doesn't quite add up, I used your salaries exactly sent Ruotsaleinen down and even at 5mil for the 2C I still have 1.3 mil in cap space. (I did include the 1.5mil penalty) It likely stems from you saying we have 31 mil in cap space to start when we actually have just under 34.5mil Edited August 21, 2020 by thewookie1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, thewookie1 said: It likely stems from you saying we have 31 mil in cap space to start when we actually have just under 34.5mil OG post and initial example have been fixed. I was misunderstanding performance bonuses. Performance bonuses count against the cap, however, what I didn't realize is that teams get an extra 7.5% cushion for them on top of the AAV salary cap. Sabres have $3.4875M in performance bonuses for next year; 7.5% of $81.5M is $6.11M. From here on out, we'll ignore them and assume they fit in that cushion and I won't incorporate them incorrectly. Sabres would have about $8.5M-$10.5M or so with which to acquire a 2C and LD if they kept all RFAs except Pilut and carried one extra F and Miller as extra D. Edited August 21, 2020 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 I'm going to be really surprised if Larsson signs here. He's a hard worker and might be one of our few UFAs who gets an outside offer, and being "sick of losing" he would take it. Looking at this roster I realize there's only about 8 players I'd want back (or see them as valuable for a quality trade) and the rest is just a big bag of rubbish or at best complete indifference. (not including the kids/prospects of course) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 But, but I was told the Sabres are going to have soooo much cap room to sign all the good players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, inkman said: But, but I was told the Sabres are going to have soooo much cap room to sign all the good players. They will probably have at least $6M in cap space to put toward upgrading the roster. That’s going to be more than almost all other teams. They will be one of only a few teams with any cap space at all. Your sarcasm is being wasted here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, Curt said: They will probably have at least $6M in cap space to put toward upgrading the roster. That’s going to be more than almost all other teams. They will be one of only a few teams with any cap space at all. Your sarcasm is being wasted here. Thanks dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 32 minutes ago, inkman said: Thanks dad Any time son. Now go clean up your room. Your mother is sick of looking at your mess. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/22/2020 at 7:54 AM, inkman said: But, but I was told the Sabres are going to have soooo much cap room to sign all the good players. They actually kind of do because they can take a (hopefully just a 1 year remaining) bad contract or 2 back in a RHD for a 2C trade. And should still have money available to upgrade the GT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 24, 2020 Report Share Posted August 24, 2020 On 8/20/2020 at 8:49 PM, Taro T said: If they really only have $3.1MM for the 2C, they really are hosed. And, it just lends more credence to one of the RHD being a key piece going out for the 2C. Exactly. Basically any rhd they ship out will free up roughly 4 mil in space and could also make some of the other players signed in that scenario expendable for a cheaper option. Also, Mitts should get his qualifying offer and nothing else. He has been bad and should have been in the AHL. He doesn't deserve any raise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Sabres at 1.2 million in cap overage. Can split the bill between this year and next. https://www.tsn.ca/13-nhl-teams-will-carry-salary-cap-overages-into-next-season-1.1517304 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, dudacek said: Sabres at 1.2 million in cap overage. Can split the bill between this year and next. https://www.tsn.ca/13-nhl-teams-will-carry-salary-cap-overages-into-next-season-1.1517304 Take the full hit this year. Dahlin's hitting his bonuses this year and that ~$650k might effectively push into '21-'22 when they'll need more cap room to be covering Dahlin's new contract & still need to pay for the upgrades that will have come in this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 he gave us all that.....AND a cap overage?? He won't be out of a GM job long, I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 52 minutes ago, Thorny said: he gave us all that.....AND a cap overage?? He won't be out of a GM job long, I say In fairness, we knew there would be an overage as soon as the RS was officially completed and we knew what ELC bonuses had been earned. Having Hunwick on IR all year & Sobotka & Thompson there nearly as long guaranteed bonuses would push into the upcoming season's team cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 23 hours ago, Thorny said: he gave us all that.....AND a cap overage?? He won't be out of a GM job long, I say Indeed. Further evidence that a SabreSpace committee would've done a better job. It's probably harder to spend as much as the Sabres have spent, and be as bad as they've been, than it would've been to spend less and be as bad. 22 hours ago, Taro T said: In fairness, we knew there would be an overage as soon as the RS was officially completed and we knew what ELC bonuses had been earned. Having Hunwick on IR all year & Sobotka & Thompson there nearly as long guaranteed bonuses would push into the upcoming season's team cap. You're a kinder man than I am. But wasn't it JB's masterstroke move of Scandella for Frolik that put them into the overage? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Indeed. Further evidence that a SabreSpace committee would've done a better job. It's probably harder to spend as much as the Sabres have spent, and be as bad as they've been, than it would've been to spend less and be as bad. You're a kinder man than I am. But wasn't it JB's masterstroke move of Scandella for Frolik that put them into the overage? But this is exactly what PegulaS said, innit? I'm reasonably worried it didn't dive much deeper than that, either. tbfh. Ie = prime operative being might as well spend less if we are going to be bad, secondary objective being - hey if it leads to a better team, cool. I know Adams has said some stuff to the contrary, about better incorporating data and stuff, but all of that can honestly be found by googling "what to say when you become a new nhl gm". One good thing - they didn't sell "the future" a whole bunch, they seemed pretty adamant about it being time to win. So we'll see soon this offseason if they mean business in the way we'd want them to, and it'll be easy to judge straight up rather that questioning if it's some sort of godforsaken "evaluation year" for the new regime. Edited September 3, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 The overage is vastly because of Dahlin and Kahun. It's part of why Pitt dealt Kahun for some fourth liners (one of whom had prior Crosby magic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 38 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Indeed. Further evidence that a SabreSpace committee would've done a better job. It's probably harder to spend as much as the Sabres have spent, and be as bad as they've been, than it would've been to spend less and be as bad. You're a kinder man than I am. But wasn't it JB's masterstroke move of Scandella for Frolik that put them into the overage? Possibly temporarily (don't believe it even was possible for a temporary situation, but maybe) but as soon as they had another injury or 2 any cap space that possibly could have been banked without Frolik would've been absorbed quickly. To have been banking any cap space at all they needed to be under the cap by at minimum an amount at least equal to Hunwick's, Thompson's, & Sobotka's salaries. Between those salaries plus all the regular IR'd guys like Hutton & Bogosian, don't believe they ever were in a position that they would've been far enough from the cap to bank any cap space (even temporarily) by not picking up a replacement boat anchor named Frolik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said: The overage is vastly because of Dahlin and Kahun. It's part of why Pitt dealt Kahun for some fourth liners (one of whom had prior Crosby magic). It *is* possible to forsee those overages, you know, in advance, and plan for it accordingly. Rather than accentuate it. It's not the fortelling of some sad, ancient religion. Edited September 3, 2020 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Thorny said: It *is* possible to plan for those overage, you know, in advance. It's not the fortelling of some sad, ancient religion. Your insight serves you well. Bury your cap knowledge deep down, @Thorny. It does you credit, but it could not be made to save the JBot. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 15 hours ago, Thorny said: It's not the fortelling of some sad, ancient religion. This is what we now refer to as being fans of the NHL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 We are going to have to sign another goalie. No way we start the season trusting Hutton’s eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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