What's going on with Montour?

[inkman]

4 hours ago, OhMyDahlin said:

I cannot believe Botterill gave up Guhle and a 1st round pick for this kid...I hated the trade when it happened and I hate it more now.

Who is it we need to keep an eye on, Brayden Tracey? I think he was the pick by Anaheim.

Don't do this to yourself.  Move on.  

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, inkman said:

Don't do this to yourself.  Move on.  

Yeah.  Like getting mad about oreilly.  Its done - JBs fired.  Just like TM was fired for his many many mistakes.

[Stoner]

My guess is he's still trying to figure out how one train can leave Chicago and one train can leave New York and travel in opposite directions. Trains can't go across water.

[shrader]

I'd imagine that qualifying offers and arbitration could cause some troubles around the league this year, both for the league and the PA.  Arbitration should be particularly tricky, because the flat cap is not going to factor into any arbitrators decision.  Teams will want to avoid it at all costs, but does the random player thing it might be a good option as a way to force a rejected deal and free agency?

@Taro T, I know you were looking through the new CBA earlier.  Do they still have the same requirements for qualifying offers this year (or the next couple years) or did they leave it at the same percentage raise as before?  I'm guessing they didn't touch it, but so many other industries lost annual raises this year, I wouldn't put it past any league to try to do the same.

[StuckinFL]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I was attempting to be equally bombastic.  

However, you are right, that was in poor taste.  I should have been smarter about it.  That was not polite to Lehner or anyone else who might actually read it who has suffered from serious depression or alcoholism.  For anyone offended, my apologies.  Did not mean to diminish the very real struggles that people go through, and I really am so happy for Lehner.

I just wanna call you out for a second. The ability to be reflective of your own behavior and evaluate it and then admit that you were wrong without excuses is a rare and very amazing thing that should be cultivated and admired. The instinct to stick to your guns no matter what, even if you know you're in the wrong is far too prevalent in our society. The world would be a better place if more people had your humility and self reflection. Thank you for being one of the good guys. 

[Taro T]

45 minutes ago, shrader said:

I'd imagine that qualifying offers and arbitration could cause some troubles around the league this year, both for the league and the PA.  Arbitration should be particularly tricky, because the flat cap is not going to factor into any arbitrators decision.  Teams will want to avoid it at all costs, but does the random player thing it might be a good option as a way to force a rejected deal and free agency?

@Taro T, I know you were looking through the new CBA earlier.  Do they still have the same requirements for qualifying offers this year (or the next couple years) or did they leave it at the same percentage raise as before?  I'm guessing they didn't touch it, but so many other industries lost annual raises this year, I wouldn't put it past any league to try to do the same.

Looks like there is only 1 change to QO's and it only effects the basis for how the QO is calculated, not how much it has to be relative to the basis.

From the MOU: For SPCs signed after the date of this agreement, if the minimum Paragraph 1 NHL Salary portion of a Player’s Qualifying Offer would otherwise be greater than 120% of the Averaged Amount of the SPC, the minimum Paragraph 1 NHL Salary portion of the Qualifying Offer will instead be 120% of the Averaged Amount.   For example, if a Player has a 3 year SPC with Paragraph 1 NHL Salaries of $3.0 million in Year 1, $6.0 million in Year 2, and $9.0 million in Year 3, the minimum Paragraph 1 NHL Salary portion of the Qualifying Offer will be $7.2 million. If, however, such Player’s 3 year SPC had Paragraph 1 NHL Salaries of $5.0 million in Year 1, $6.0 million in Year 2, and $7.0 million in Year 3, the minimum Paragraph 1 NHL Salary portion of the Qualifying Offer will be $7.0 MM. 

($7.0 in the 2nd example because $7.0<120% of AAV ($7.2MM); so, for contracts valued below the 105%/100% threshold expecting they still have to provide for the 5% raise.  Also, believe it applies to current RFAs as they will sign their next contract after the new CBA goes into effect but all the upcoming current RFAs technically signed their prior contracts under the old CBA so maybe their QOs will still fall under the old rules.)

[dudacek]

The context of the Montour nugget was interesting.

It sounds like many teams are deathly afraid of arbitration pinning them to contract that will completely handcuff them to a player at a price they won’t be able to walk away from.

Sounds like there is a new clause that allows the player to accept the team’s arbitration offer if the team loses and walks away. I’m not sure why the team would be offering a number they can’t work with, but the talking heads saw this as significant. Can anyone explain?

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The context of the Montour nugget was interesting.

It sounds like many teams are deathly afraid of arbitration pinning them to contract that will completely handcuff them to a player at a price they won’t be able to walk away from.

Sounds like there is a new clause that allows the player to accept the team’s arbitration offer if the team loses and walks away. I’m not sure why the team would be offering a number they can’t work with, but the talking heads saw this as significant. Can anyone explain?

Yep.  If the team walks away from the arbitration award, the player has 4 days to accept the team's original offer.

The only way it seems significant on 1st glance is Timmy Kennedy would've stayed a Sabre when his agent miscalculated his real worth & not what some arbitrator could be talked into.  The team getting the player at the cost they originally wanted seems to be a good thing for them from this perspective.

Didn't see any other changes except arbitration hearings can now be via video conference.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Yep.  If the team walks away from the arbitration award, the player has 4 days to accept the team's original offer.

The only way it seems significant on 1st glance is Timmy Kennedy would've stayed a Sabre when his agent miscalculated his real worth & not what some arbitrator could be talked into.  The team getting the player at the cost they originally wanted seems to be a good thing for them from this perspective.

Didn't see any other changes except arbitration hearings can now be via video conference.

That’s what I thought. Maybe I just misread the context.

[kas23]

4 hours ago, shrader said:

I'd imagine that qualifying offers and arbitration could cause some troubles around the league this year, both for the league and the PA.  Arbitration should be particularly tricky, because the flat cap is not going to factor into any arbitrators decision.  Teams will want to avoid it at all costs, but does the random player thing it might be a good option as a way to force a rejected deal and free agency?

@Taro T, I know you were looking through the new CBA earlier.  Do they still have the same requirements for qualifying offers this year (or the next couple years) or did they leave it at the same percentage raise as before?  I'm guessing they didn't touch it, but so many other industries lost annual raises this year, I wouldn't put it past any league to try to do the same.

I found this helpful:

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/qualifying-offer-calculator

[IKnowPhysics]

Montour will be fine.

 

Kevyn Adams will be fine.

[stuuuuuuuuu]

Montour to Edmonton for Athanasiou straight up?
 

Both are pending RFA and Andreas really didn’t produce in EDM after being traded at the deadline. 
 

His combination of speed and offensive ability would be an asset in our top 9 especially as a home run hitter in the transition game. 
 

His defense is terrible and we would likely need to keep him away from skinner and be creative with his usage but, he has played all 3 forward positions at the nhl level, giving Kruger the flexibility to do so. 
 

I haven’t consulted the analytics community of this so feel free to fact check me on this comparison but I think of him as a turbo charges luxury version of e-rod (positionally versatile, defensively questionable player capable of making plays on the rush).  
 

That being said, his combination of elite speed and high end puck handling at said speed allow him to threaten defenses through the neutral zone better than any player we have not named Jack 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Stu

[sabresparaavida]

Apparently Montour wants at least 4 years for his next contract.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Apparently Montour wants at least 4 years for his next contract.

Makes sense. I wish the Sabres had used him better so we actually had an idea of how he would fit. 

[dudacek]

Montour is at that point in his career 

I like his game but never had the sense he was a good fit.

Not sure if that’s about Botterill’s mistakes at roster building or if he’s happy to be here and the team is happy to have him

[Gabrielor]

 

It was always horseshit.

 

Now trading him...that should be happening....

[Eleven]

21 minutes ago, Gabrielor said:

 

It was always horseshit.

 

Now trading him...that should be happening....

Sure, and Jason Botterill's job was safe and "Lindy's not going anywhere."  Note that the quote is not "we will issue a qualifying offer."  I'm not saying they are or aren't going to do so, but this quote doesn't establish anything for me.

[Gabrielor]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Sure, and Jason Botterill's job was safe and "Lindy's not going anywhere."  Note that the quote is not "we will issue a qualifying offer."  I'm not saying they are or aren't going to do so, but this quote doesn't establish anything for me.

We have not even considered that. (concerning not qualifying)

I don't think it could be any clearer...

I understand the Pegula pessimism though, that's fair.

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Gabrielor said:

We have not even considered that. (concerning not qualifying)

I don't think it could be any clearer...

I understand the Pegula pessimism though, that's fair.

It's not just the Pegulas.  It's every sports executive ever.  Jason Garrett was "safe" in Dallas too.  The quote can be fairly interpreted to mean that the Sabres haven't considered *anything* with respect to Montour.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Eleven

[Gabrielor]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It's not just the Pegulas.  It's every sports executive ever.  Jason Garrett was "safe" in Dallas too.  The quote can be fairly interpreted to mean that the Sabres haven't considered *anything* with respect to Montour.

That's fair, but your interpretation would still serve the purpose of dismissing Friedman's hot take. ? (if nothing's considered, then no qo hasn't been considered)

Edited August 18, 2020 by Gabrielor

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, Gabrielor said:

That's fair, but your interpretation would still serve the purpose of dismissing Friedman's hot take. ? (if nothing's considered, then no qo hasn't been considered)

This also is correct.

[steveoath]

 

From this presser 

[PerreaultForever]

On 8/13/2020 at 8:34 AM, Kruppstahl said:

Montour is one of many bust moves from our old friend Botterill.

Who really cares what happens with him.

I've never liked his game and felt it was a bad move but I'd still say letting him walk and getting absolutely nothing for him would be ridiculous. It'd kind of be like watching Montreal AND Scandella playing in the playoffs or like Bogo winning the cup....................

[PerreaultForever]

On 8/14/2020 at 10:49 AM, Stu said:

Montour to Edmonton for Athanasiou straight up?
 

Both are pending RFA and Andreas really didn’t produce in EDM after being traded at the deadline. 
 

Excellent reason to make him a Sabre ?

[shrader]

4 hours ago, Eleven said:

Sure, and Jason Botterill's job was safe and "Lindy's not going anywhere."  Note that the quote is not "we will issue a qualifying offer."  I'm not saying they are or aren't going to do so, but this quote doesn't establish anything for me.

Well if they sign him before qualifying offers are even due, the statement "we will issue a qualifying offer" would in fact be BS.