So #8

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

John Voglhas the Sabres taking Holtz at 8 in the latest Athletic Mock Draft. 

Rossi goes 7th to NJ

Ottawa gets Byfield and Raymond. 

They should trade it or trade down in that scenario. Holtz would be really underwhelming 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Thorny

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

They should trade it or trade down in that scenario. Holtz would be really underwhelming 

I agree.  I’m not a Holtz fan, but I wouldn’t be terribly let down either.

I feel that he is only above average at one thing.  Luckily, elite shooting is pretty valuable.  If he can adjust his style of play a bit and just be good enough at everything else, his elite shot could see him be a consistent 30+ goal scorer.

I would just like to add a less one dimensional player.

[Shootica]

If the board falls like it did there, give me Sanderson. 

Quinn/Jarvis are nice players too, I like all three of them over Holtz.

[Thorner]

13 minutes ago, Curt said:

I agree.  I’m not a Holtz fan, but I wouldn’t be terribly let down either.

I feel that he is only above average at one thing.  Luckily, elite shooting is pretty valuable.  If he can adjust his style of play a bit and just be good enough at everything else, his elite shot could see him be a consistent 30+ goal scorer.

I would just like to add a less one dimensional player.

Ya, same. I'm on a two-way player kick right now with this roster. 

I also admit to a stylistic bias in this case - I've never been very into the Laine-ish "hey I suck at everything but that SHOT! Damn!" type player.

Yes, I understand this may be an exaggeration. Well, with Holtz at least. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

29 minutes ago, Curt said:

I agree.  I’m not a Holtz fan, but I wouldn’t be terribly let down either.

I feel that he is only above average at one thing.  Luckily, elite shooting is pretty valuable.  If he can adjust his style of play a bit and just be good enough at everything else, his elite shot could see him be a consistent 30+ goal scorer.

I would just like to add a less one dimensional player.

Draft Jarvis. Better skating, better passing, and you get almost the same shot. 

[dudacek]

36 minutes ago, Thorny said:

They should trade it or trade down in that scenario. Holtz would be really underwhelming 

 

30 minutes ago, Curt said:

I agree.  I’m not a Holtz fan, but I wouldn’t be terribly let down either.

I feel that he is only above average at one thing.  Luckily, elite shooting is pretty valuable.  If he can adjust his style of play a bit and just be good enough at everything else, his elite shot could see him be a consistent 30+ goal scorer.

I would just like to add a less one dimensional player.

I'm not excited, exactly, by Holtz, but he sounds like he's a legitimate talent. I still see a good chance he's Thomas Vanek or Jeff Skinner in terms of the role he brings and the level he can play it.

Wheeler's take:

6. Alexander Holtz — RW/LW, Djurgårdens IF, 5-foot-11.5

After finishing the 2019-20 season strong, Holtz picked up where he left off in August and September and then some, looking like a star in most of my recent viewings. Holtz belongs in the conversation for the top five in this draft more than debate in the public and private spheres have given him. In recent months, I have considered ranking him as high as No. 4 here. There’s a lot about Holtz’s game I believe remains a tad disrespected. Everyone agrees he has power to his game and that he’s got arguably the best wrist shot in the draft (his one-timer still needs some work). But some question his small area skill, his quickness, or his playmaking talent. And while he needs to continue to develop his touch in traffic and his first few steps, I would argue the third point is a lot better than he usually gets credit for. Does he need to tunnel vision a little less when he has the puck? Sometimes. But I’ve seen him feather backhand passes through unsuspecting seams, or feign shot before hitting the backdoor guy with a hard pass across the crease or use the attention his shot gets to hit the trailer off the rush. That will give his game more dimension than people realize, I suspect. He has already shown he can make an impact at the pro level more than most others near the top of this draft, too. I was particularly impressed with the way he handled being asked to play a new role on the power play (after spending his entire junior career on the flank, Djurgardens moved him to the slot).

More than the flashy power play goals that he has scored from the left-wing faceoff circle since returning, I’ve been most impressed by his control through tight quarters at 5-on-5.

When I asked Djurgardens general manager Joakim Eriksson about Holtz, he too broke down why he thinks there’s more to his top young player than just the good shot.

“He has had exceptional talent to score goals among older players his whole life,” Eriksson said. “I mean, he has been doing that since he was 10. To be a good goal scorer you can be like Ovechkin and have a good shot, but you also need to be smart about where you position yourself, how you read the game, how you show up for rebounds or going to spots so playmakers can find you. He’s a smart player. He’s as ready to play the professional level as any young player.”

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by dudacek

[dudacek]

I've got my favourites, but I think I've come around with just about anyone they could reasonably pick at 8.

There are good cases to be made for a lot of different players. They've got a lot more info than I do, they've just got to get it right.

Edited September 21, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Draft Jarvis. Better skating, better passing, and you get almost the same shot. 

I'd be good with drafting him for sure, you have me convinced. Cherry on top that he's a right shot RWer. 

Still think there could be a trade down scenario available, if they like someone but aren't totally set on them. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Draft Jarvis. Better skating, better passing, and you get almost the same shot. 

I’m hypothetically ok with Jarvis at 8, depending on who else is on the board.  Vs Holtz, Jarvis is a better skater, better creator, shot definitely isn’t as good, but Jarvis has good scoring instincts, and a very good shot.  Jarvis isn’t a real 2-way player either though.  He is feisty and forchecks tenaciously, but he cheats for offense quite a lot, sometimes not getting involved in the D zone.

Honestly that’s a lot of good offensive players in Juniors though, and something that often improves a lot if the player is willing.

[Thorner]

I laughed when Button projected the Jets as taking Jarvis to address centre when basically everyone has Jarvis as an NHL wing. 

[Brawndo]

Picking 8th Overall, You want a player who is able to drive His Own Line whether that be from The Center or Wing Position. Holtz is a very good player, but appears to be center dependent.  

[Weave]

35 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Picking 8th Overall, You want a player who is able to drive His Own Line whether that be from The Center or Wing Position. Holtz is a very good player, but appears to be center dependent.  

How often do 8 OAL picks turn out good enough to be players that drive their line?  I feel like by the time you get to 8 those players are not reliable to pick at that level.

[PerreaultForever]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

How often do 8 OAL picks turn out good enough to be players that drive their line?  I feel like by the time you get to 8 those players are not reliable to pick at that level.

How often? Tough question, but the difference between a good team and a bad one is getting lucky and/or drafting better. We need to start hitting not only on #8 picks but later round picks. We need our Jamie Benn (129th pick) or Brayden point (79th) or our Brett Hull (117th) or Datsyuk (171st)  etc etc etc. We cannot afford another Nylander. 

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, Weave said:

How often do 8 OAL picks turn out good enough to be players that drive their line?  I feel like by the time you get to 8 those players are not reliable to pick at that level.

Agreed.  Outside of the top 3, 4, 5, you not going to RELIABLY find guys like that, but they are out there still.

[dudacek]

47 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Picking 8th Overall, You want a player who is able to drive His Own Line whether that be from The Center or Wing Position. Holtz is a very good player, but appears to be center dependent.  

That is a very good way looking at things at this point in the draft. It’s why I’m hoping for Rossi or Perfetti and why I’m OK with Drysdale despite the lack of position fit.

Who else qualifies as a play driver for you that might be available with our pick?

[GASabresIUFAN]

How many Sabrespace posters heads will explode when KA drafts Drysdale with the 8th pick.

[dudacek]

55 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How many Sabrespace posters heads will explode when KA drafts Drysdale with the 8th pick.

Considering most of them will have traded Risto and Montour and wouldn't mind if Miller was gone at well, it might actually be a position of need by then.

If Drysdale is available when we pick, i would be surprised if he's not the best player available.

Edited September 22, 2020 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

53 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That is a very good way looking at things at this point in the draft. It’s why I’m hoping for Rossi or Perfetti and why I’m OK with Drysdale despite the lack of position fit.

Who else qualifies as a play driver for you that might be available with our pick?

What is, Seth Jarvis. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

That is a very good way looking at things at this point in the draft. It’s why I’m hoping for Rossi or Perfetti and why I’m OK with Drysdale despite the lack of position fit.

Who else qualifies as a play driver for you that might be available with our pick?

 

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What is, Seth Jarvis. 

I would add Anton Lundell to the list

[LGR4GM]

Wheeler's updated draft ranking, Marco Rossi:

Quote

I always come back to Ottawa 67’s general manager James Boyd telling me this about Rossi:

“He’s a phenomenal player. Phenomenal. A few teams that have picked up on it. I’m biased but I think he’s the best player in our league. It’s not often you’ve got a player on your team who is the best offensive player, the best defensive player, the best guy on faceoffs, the best guy on the power play, the best guy on the penalty kill and probably your No. 1 shootout shooter. And the thing is he doesn’t cheat, so as the game goes along, he takes over. The No. 1 thing for me is his skating — which was a concern for some people — is phenomenal. Some guys are interested in getting better, he’s obsessed. If I told him to eat a pound of sunflower seeds every day because it would help him get to the NHL, he’d be right on it. It’s only going to continue.

https://theathletic.com/2019544/2020/09/21/wheeler-updated-ranking-for-the-2020-nhl-drafts-top-100-prospects/

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

That is a very good way looking at things at this point in the draft. It’s why I’m hoping for Rossi or Perfetti and why I’m OK with Drysdale despite the lack of position fit.

Who else qualifies as a play driver for you that might be available with our pick?

Why does Sabres twitter dislike Perfetti? You are the biggest backer of his I've seen pretty much anywhere Sabres related

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

What is, Seth Jarvis. 

Do you rank Jarvis ahead of Perfetti? Both project as wingers, correct...

- - - 

Trade, Drysdale, Rossi, Lundell, Jarvis

The scenarios I am good with as of this instant

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Why does Sabres twitter dislike Perfetti? You are the biggest backer of his I've seen pretty much anywhere Sabres related

Do you rank Jarvis ahead of Perfetti? Both project as wingers, correct...

- - - 

Trade, Drysdale, Rossi, Lundell, Jarvis

The scenarios I am good with

Perfetti is going to Detroit and he is a center. I don't love Perfetti but I recognize the skill. To answer the question, no I do not rank Perfetti ahead of Jarvis. 

Edit: I should say many project Perfetti to be a center. That is more accurate. I can see him at wing. Jarvis however is a wing because he really hasn't played much center as far as I am aware. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by LGR4GM

[French Collection]

If Rossi doesn’t make the NHL this year, can he be sent to the AHL? He is European.

He led the OHL in scoring as an 18 year old so I would think there is no more development there for him. I would probably say Swiss or German leagues would be options vs returning to OHL.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, French Collection said:

If Rossi doesn’t make the NHL this year, can he be sent to the AHL? He is European.

He led the OHL in scoring as an 18 year old so I would think there is no more development there for him. I would probably say Swiss or German leagues would be options vs returning to OHL.

I am unsure. The answer is maybe but honestly... Marco Rossi might be NHL ready. Especially considering he has had 6 months of training since he last played. 

[Thorner]

Marco i

I've now ruined him for everyone. You are welcome.