So #8

[Eleven]

9 hours ago, john wawrow said:

That one I'm not aware of. Some words were said in Kim and Terry's presence, but not directed at them as far as I know. As far as I can go.

 

jw

I did not hear that it was said to her face.

That said, I'm the one responsible for bringing this rumor to the board, so if it's a turdburger, I'll eat the turdburger.

10 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Why is this still a discussion?

Trade him while he might still have value. He isn’t gonna pan out. 

Can't tell what you're referencing there...

[Andrew Amerk]

7 hours ago, Eleven said:

 

Can't tell what you're referencing there...

Sorry. 
 

It was my non-clarified response to people debating on what to do with Mitts. I’m in the package-him-in-a-deal-to-get-a-useful-player group. 
 

If Botts was able to get Joki for Nylander, then the assumption should be that our new and better GM can get something even better for Mitts. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Andrew Amerk

[Huckleberry]

My guess is this pick is going to be traded though.    Looking at tampa mostly.

[Andrew Amerk]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

My guess is this pick is going to be traded though.    Looking at tampa mostly.

If TBL wins the Cup, or comes close, it’ll prolly be a lot harder for them to convince players to waive their NMC’s. 
 

For a team that has drafted as well as them, maybe they won’t be too concerned about giving up Cirelli for #8. 🤷‍♂️

[Huckleberry]

for 2C

I would trade this pick for Monahan or Cirelli.   

 

[Thorner]

On 9/6/2020 at 11:13 PM, Ducky said:

Reinhart, 8th and 2020 2nd round pick for 10th and Ehlers...would you do it?

Ehlers I think is a little bit better than Reinhart, so I'd consider paying a second to make that swap, but ultimately may not do it considering Reinhart is one of our only right shots. Definitely not if we have to move down in the draft though. Throw in Copp, and you've got yourself a deal. 

On 9/6/2020 at 11:55 PM, Broken Ankles said:

I would not do that even  if you substituted Risto for Reino.  

I would absolutely make the deal if we give up Risto (a surplus) and get to keep Reinhart (a weakness). Paying a second and moving down 2 spots would be worth converting Ristolainen to Ehlers imo, who took a big jump this year from what I could tell. He was impressive in nearly every one of the not-insignificant quantity of Jets games I watched this season. 

He's a guy who creates from the wing, so he wouldn't need to be next to Eichel. Skinner can play there. He'd be a fantastic pairing with Sam, ideal IMO, so I'd be really excited to add him if we were keeping Sam. 

I'd argue Ehlers - Reinhart 2nd line bookends would make acquiring a temp 2C pretty cake-walk-ish for anyone not named Jason.

I'd also wager we'd be a better team with Ehlers and Copp (should we get him too) and Reinhart than we'd be with Monahan, Gaudreau and Ristolainen. And we'd probably be giving up much higher additional draft pick value in the second option (thought that's just a guess).

Edited September 9, 2020 by Thorny

[Eleven]

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It was my non-clarified response to people debating on what to do with Mitts. I’m in the package-him-in-a-deal-to-get-a-useful-player group. 

Got it.  I'm in the same group.  I want the Sabres to move him before the rest of the league figures out that he's a waste of time.

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Got it.  I'm in the same group.  I want the Sabres to move him before the rest of the league figures out that he's not going to live up to his hype and therefore still somehow willing to pay a price more reflective of that value than they should, to get him. 

 

[Andrew Amerk]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Got it.  I'm in the same group.  I want the Sabres to move him before the rest of the league figures out that he's a waste of time.

I really wish I was higher on him, but I’ve been watching players play for the Amerks my entire life, and Mitts doesn’t seem poised for much of an NHL career. 

[Broken Ankles]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ehlers I think is a little bit better than Reinhart, so I'd consider paying a second to make that swap, but ultimately may not do it considering Reinhart is one of our only right shots. Definitely not if we have to move down in the draft though. Throw in Copp, and you've got yourself a deal. 

I would absolutely make the deal if we give up Risto (a surplus) and get to keep Reinhart (a weakness). Paying a second and moving down 2 spots would be worth converting Ristolainen to Ehlers imo, who took a big jump this year from what I could tell. He was impressive in nearly every one of the not-insignificant quantity of Jets games I watched this season. 

He's a guy who creates from the wing, so he wouldn't need to be next to Eichel. Skinner can play there. He'd be a fantastic pairing with Sam, ideal IMO, so I'd be really excited to add him if we were keeping Sam. 

I'd argue Ehlers - Reinhart 2nd line bookends would make acquiring a temp 2C pretty cake-walk-ish for anyone not named Jason.

I'd also wager we'd be a better team with Ehlers and Copp (should we get him too) and Reinhart than we'd be with Monahan, Gaudreau and Ristolainen. And we'd probably be giving up much higher additional draft pick value in the second option (thought that's just a guess).

I agree with the bold, and love the idea of Copp.  However I’m off the Ehlers trade, especially if you are keeping Sam.  I think Skinner/Olafsson are your LW 1/2 and you are looking to add size to FL#1 on the right.  From what I read on this board and other places  We certainly don’t want to downgrade this years draft, even two positions. Just think how different things would be this off-season if you didn’t have Cozens in the mix because you moved down two spots last year.  I think Risto is ripe to be moved but I don’t think you need sweetener.  If traded, his return will surprise some.  Keep the #8 And the second rounder.  IF Sam is moved for a center, then Ehlers for Risto and Miller or Montour and something.

[Eleven]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

Well put.

[Ducky]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:18 PM, Broken Ankles said:

I agree with the bold, and love the idea of Copp.  However I’m off the Ehlers trade, especially if you are keeping Sam.  I think Skinner/Olafsson are your LW 1/2 and you are looking to add size to FL#1 on the right.  From what I read on this board and other places  We certainly don’t want to downgrade this years draft, even two positions. Just think how different things would be this off-season if you didn’t have Cozens in the mix because you moved down two spots last year.  I think Risto is ripe to be moved but I don’t think you need sweetener.  If traded, his return will surprise some.  Keep the #8 And the second rounder.  IF Sam is moved for a center, then Ehlers for Risto and Miller or Montour and something.

No interest in Risto whatsoever and Ehlers plays either wing. He played RW in junior but Maurice like his wingers to shoot on the side they are playing.

A 2nd might be too much...what about 8, Reinhart and a 3rd for Ehlers and 10?

@Thorny, if you want Copper, I'd probably make a trade centering around Mitts and Copper.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Ducky

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, Ducky said:

No interest in Risto whatsoever and Ehlers plays either wing. He played RW in junior but Maurice like his wingers to shoot on the side they are playing.

A 2nd might be too much...what about 8, Reinhart and a 3rd for Ehlers and 10?

@Thorny, if you want Copper, I'd probably make a trade centering around Mitts and Copper.

That must be some quality crack that you’re smoking. 

[Thorner]

16 hours ago, Ducky said:

No interest in Risto whatsoever and Ehlers plays either wing. He played RW in junior but Maurice like his wingers to shoot on the side they are playing.

A 2nd might be too much...what about 8, Reinhart and a 3rd for Ehlers and 10?

@Thorny, if you want Copper, I'd probably make a trade centering around Mitts and Copper.

I still can't pay 2 spots in the top 10 of the 1st round and a third when we are short on picks the next few years (Botts) to convert Reinhart to Ehlers, on a day I'm agreeing with @dudacek that we might get him at 6 something, when half the appeal of acquiring Ehlers is how phenomenal I think their skill sets would compliment each other playing together. 

They are too close in value. 

- - - 

Mitts and a 2nd next year for Copp and a 3rd this year. Done deal. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Thorny

[kas23]

On 9/8/2020 at 7:31 PM, Andrew Amerk said:

If TBL wins the Cup, or comes close, it’ll prolly be a lot harder for them to convince players to waive their NMC’s. 
 

For a team that has drafted as well as them, maybe they won’t be too concerned about giving up Cirelli for #8. 🤷‍♂️

I’m hoping Tampa Bay loses in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final. They’ll definitely want to come back then. 

[Ducky]

On 9/9/2020 at 9:55 PM, Andrew Amerk said:

That must be some quality crack that you’re smoking. 

It does nothing for me. 

Rather eat a piece of my banana bread!

On 9/10/2020 at 1:04 PM, Thorny said:

I still can't pay 2 spots in the top 10 of the 1st round and a third when we are short on picks the next few years (Botts) to convert Reinhart to Ehlers, on a day I'm agreeing with @dudacek that we might get him at 6 something, when half the appeal of acquiring Ehlers is how phenomenal I think their skill sets would compliment each other playing together. 

They are too close in value. 

- - - 

Mitts and a 2nd next year for Copp and a 3rd this year. Done deal. 

I'd make that deal.

[steveoath]

On 9/10/2020 at 8:04 PM, Thorny said:

Mitts and a 2nd next year for Copp and a 3rd this year. Done deal. 

Def. Would that give us more offer sheet potential too?

[rakish]

6 hours ago, steveoath said:

Def. Would that give us more offer sheet potential too?

My understanding it that it needs to be your 3rd round pick. The Rangers have it.

[JohnC]

On 9/10/2020 at 3:04 PM, Thorny said:

I still can't pay 2 spots in the top 10 of the 1st round and a third when we are short on picks the next few years (Botts) to convert Reinhart to Ehlers, on a day I'm agreeing with @dudacek that we might get him at 6 something, when half the appeal of acquiring Ehlers is how phenomenal I think their skill sets would compliment each other playing together. 

They are too close in value. 

- - - 

Mitts and a 2nd next year for Copp and a 3rd this year. Done deal. 

Do you consider Copp a 2C caliber player or a temporary player at that role? 

[Trettioåtta]

On 9/10/2020 at 8:04 PM, Thorny said:

Mitts and a 2nd next year for Copp and a 3rd this year. Done deal. 

That seems like a high price. Casey is 5 years younger. Copp has averaged 0.3 pts/game whereas Casey is 0.34

I don't know Copp's game, but is it really so complete to overcome a 5 year age difference and worse point production as well as us providing the higher pick?

[Thorner]

8 hours ago, JohnC said:

Do you consider Copp a 2C caliber player or a temporary player at that role? 

Temporary. But totally workable between a couple good wingers like the two I mentioned. Reliable at both ends. Ideal 3C once Cozens steps in. 

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, Trettioåtta said:

That seems like a high price. Casey is 5 years younger. Copp has averaged 0.3 pts/game whereas Casey is 0.34

I don't know Copp's game, but is it really so complete to overcome a 5 year age difference and worse point production as well as us providing the higher pick?

@Ducky said he was their I think second most reliable defensive player. What's Mittelstadt, our second least reliable?

Copp has been at .39 ppg the past two seasons, Casey at .31ppg. Casey's will probably go up, but there's also a lot of people in Winnipeg who think Copp is primed for a bigger role. All around game..they are not close. Of course we are giving up some potential ceiling in Casey but, that's the price to bring in a cheap, ready to go 2C stop gap.

We are giving up the higher pick, but generally a 3rd a year earlier is seen to have roughly the same value as a 2nd, one year late. Plus, it should open up offer sheet potential even if we'd never use it. To my mind, acquiring a value add like Copp and maximizing what he does bring to the table is one specific way to get this team a real shot at a playoff berth in a self-imposed cap world. We need to bet on likely things, like 2 way ability, and even something like Skinner's track record with players of Copp's ilk. 

Maximizing our 9 million dollar investment absolutely must be a priority for this coaching staff and management squad, right? Now?

Edited September 12, 2020 by Thorny

[Ducky]

Copper isn't a 2C in my opinion. Okay for 3 or 4 games but nothing permanent. He's been tried here as 2C.

Great defensively and rarely in the wrong position or let's his check get on the wrong side of him. I can see him becoming a coach when he retires. 

Mitts is a gamble but one I would be willing to take. He's still very young. If he comes around within 2 years and ends up centering our 2nd line, I'd be esctatic. I'd start him off as 3C next season and shelter him somewhat between Roslo and Harkins.

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, Ducky said:

Copper isn't a 2C in my opinion. Okay for 3 or 4 games but nothing permanent. He's been tried here as 2C.

Great defensively and rarely in the wrong position or let's his check get on the wrong side of him. I can see him becoming a coach when he retires. 

Mitts is a gamble but one I would be willing to take. He's still very young. If he comes around within 2 years and ends up centering our 2nd line, I'd be esctatic. I'd start him off as 3C next season and shelter him somewhat between Roslo and Harkins.

He's not ready to be a centreman at this point in time. He's very bad defensively and doesn't possess the speed to cover the middle of the ice. At 3C he'd be drowning, and those players aren't going to elevate him. Especially considering they wound't be insulating him with quality centres. 

At this point I'd be attempting to help help him carve out a niche on the left wing. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Thorny

[Weave]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He's not ready to be a centreman at this point in time. He's very bad defensively and doesn't possess the speed to cover the middle of the ice. At 3C he'd be drowning, and those players aren't going to elevate him. Especially considering they wound't be insulating him with quality centres. 

At this point I'd be attempting to help help him carve out a niche on the left wing. 

I don't think Mitts game would translate well at wing.  He doesn't have tenacity to do the board work.  He's not terribly shifty on his skates to find openings.  He's not a sniper of any sort.  And I don't see him doing any better with what he's got with half the ice closed off to him.  He needs to figure out how to make those hands work at this level and use them to get the puck to the sides.  IMO it is center or bust for that kid.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Weave