Stanley Cup Playoffs 2020 Thread

[Claude Balls]

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I have a feeling Lehner might pitch a donut tonight. 

Good call. Seems every game he wins now is a shut out. Too bad he wasn't good enough for Buffalo. 

[Eleven]

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I have a feeling Lehner might pitch a donut tonight. 

Nice call.

[Thorner]

On 9/6/2020 at 4:51 PM, Let's Go B-Lo said:

And yet, we had Ryan O'Reilly and were still terrible.

And we are terrible with Jack. So I guess we might as well let him go. 

We *never* got to see THIS Jack with ROR. In fact, we have never seen THIS Jack with an actual NHL 2C behind him. Or arguably even a 3C. They cut bait on ROR criminally early. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Thorny

[Zamboni]

Great comeback game by Vegas. 
 

[Thorner]

10 hours ago, Ducky said:

They still over paid for him by about 1.5m and 2 years.

Especially considering there is much more to his game than just points, sometimes it's better to overpay by a million or so, and a year or so, when the alternative is not getting that player at all.

This is definitely the case with that move, as was JT Miller. 

Do we really think they would be sitting there, sans Hayes, saying, "Well, we lost a defensively sounds 45 point, reliable 2-way centre who's hard to play against, but I'm sure glad we have that extra couple mil?" 

Reasonable overpays are not an issue if the player is actually, you know, really good. The contract scenario that resulted, for them to get Hayes, may not have been the hypothetical ideal option, free of any negatives at all, but it was probably BEST option available to them in the real world, and the real market. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

22 minutes ago, Claude Balls said:

Good call. Seems every game he wins now is a shut out. Too bad he wasn't good enough for Buffalo. 

 

16 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Nice call.

Was just a feeling. 
 

Maybe he could’ve worked out here if Buffalo had realized his issues and worked with him on addressing them. Who knows. 

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

worked with him on addressing them

There's the problem.

And who knows if he needed a geographical cure.

[Andrew Amerk]

7 minutes ago, Eleven said:

There's the problem.

And who knows if he needed a geographical cure.

Idk, it’s not like Long Island or Chicago are a drastic change of scenery from Buffalo. 

Maybe their “hockey cultures” are. 

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Idk, it’s not like Long Island or Chicago are a drastic change of scenery from Buffalo. 

Maybe their “hockey cultures” are. 

Not what I meant.  Sometimes, for people with addiction problems, getting away from their regular spots are a good thing.  Yes, even if their regular spots were regular only for a year or so.

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Idk, it’s not like Long Island or Chicago are a drastic change of scenery from Buffalo. 

Maybe their “hockey cultures” are. 

I think this is true.  There wasn't enough veteran leaders to stand up to him while he was ranting and blaming team mates for goals he was letting in - then maybe his issues could have been identified instead of being scared of him.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Not what I meant.  Sometimes, for people with addiction problems, getting away from their regular spots are a good thing.  Yes, even if their regular spots were regular only for a year or so.

My understanding is his addiction problems were due to (at the time) undiagnosed mental health issues. When he got the psychiatric help (and perhaps proper meds) the addiction problem went away. Perhaps the Sabres didn't look deep enough or care enough to find out the whole story.

Does the team employ any sort of mental health counsellor(s)? They should. 

[LTS]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

My understanding is his addiction problems were due to (at the time) undiagnosed mental health issues. When he got the psychiatric help (and perhaps proper meds) the addiction problem went away. Perhaps the Sabres didn't look deep enough or care enough to find out the whole story.

Does the team employ any sort of mental health counsellor(s)? They should. 

He left the team before the end of the season to deal with the issues.  The team was aware.  What the team did NOT do is decide to bring him back after that and let him go.

We could question WHEN the Sabres became aware. We could question WHEN Lehner decided enough was enough. What we should not question is IF the Sabres knew (they did) and what their actions were in response (we know).

 

[JohnC]

Tic-tack-goal. Pretty play. (clip taken from nhl.com)

https://www.nhl.com/video/nosek-scores-on-odd-man-rush/t-277350912/c-5415391

[Wyldnwoody44]

Vegas and Tampa look pretty dominant, I think that will be a solid match up, ultimately with Tamp winning in 6. 

I don't know if we'll see another Vegas dud like game 1, and I'm also too hoping the Isles make it a little better of a series. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, LTS said:

He left the team before the end of the season to deal with the issues.  The team was aware.  What the team did NOT do is decide to bring him back after that and let him go.

We could question WHEN the Sabres became aware. We could question WHEN Lehner decided enough was enough. What we should not question is IF the Sabres knew (they did) and what their actions were in response (we know).

 

It's the details I'm questioning and there is no answer so we can let it go. The WHEN is important as is the depth of understanding. Also, did the organization really try to help or did they prefer the easier path of just a handshake and a best wishes goodbye. 

I can understand why they might prefer the goodbye approach (and Lehner was not JBot's guy) but a team that chooses to stick by their people and help them, keep them, bring them closer in, that might be a team with a better culture. More of a family feeling than a corporate one. 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's the details I'm questioning and there is no answer so we can let it go. The WHEN is important as is the depth of understanding. Also, did the organization really try to help or did they prefer the easier path of just a handshake and a best wishes goodbye. 

I can understand why they might prefer the goodbye approach (and Lehner was not JBot's guy) but a team that chooses to stick by their people and help them, keep them, bring them closer in, that might be a team with a better culture. More of a family feeling than a corporate one. 

Speaking from experience:

The treatment of mental illness is really up to the potential patient.  Even if someone recommends that you get treatment, you have to want to.  I don't know what the Sabres actually did or did not do, but ultimately Lehner had to be the one who wanted to get help.  Especially when you are potentially at the top of your profession, as even marginal NHLers are, it is hard to admit that you need help -- particularly if you view your mental illness as part of what made you a success.

[PerreaultForever]

30 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Speaking from experience:

The treatment of mental illness is really up to the potential patient.  Even if someone recommends that you get treatment, you have to want to.  I don't know what the Sabres actually did or did not do, but ultimately Lehner had to be the one who wanted to get help.  Especially when you are potentially at the top of your profession, as even marginal NHLers are, it is hard to admit that you need help -- particularly if you view your mental illness as part of what made you a success.

This is absolutely true, and maybe he turned his back on help that was offered earlier but from his side of it he seems to say he never realized what the problem was. So imo this is where the issue of good veteran leadership comes in. Young guys with their minds on fame and/or women and good times and all the other things of youth and money might look at him and go "our goalie's a psycho" but not really care or look deeper. Not a blame thing, just reality. So the leadership, the guys who get together and see it and think "we have to find a way to get this guy help" has to come from somewhere, and I don't think we had it. Certainly not like a lot of solid teams do. 

Everything on a team has to be a mix and a balance. Everything. You go all in in any one direction and you have problems. 

[Andrew Amerk]

2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Speaking from experience:

The treatment of mental illness is really up to the potential patient.  Even if someone recommends that you get treatment, you have to want to.  I don't know what the Sabres actually did or did not do, but ultimately Lehner had to be the one who wanted to get help.  Especially when you are potentially at the top of your profession, as even marginal NHLers are, it is hard to admit that you need help -- particularly if you view your mental illness as part of what made you a success.

It’s also quite possible that Lehner knew he needed help, and wanted it, but didn’t want to stay in a “losing culture/losing situation.” 
 

We really don’t know everything, and likely never will. 
 

But @PerreaultForever might be onto something as well. 

[Marvin]

26 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It’s also quite possible that Lehner knew he needed help, and wanted it, but didn’t want to stay in a “losing culture/losing situation.” 
 

We really don’t know everything, and likely never will. 
 

But @PerreaultForever might be onto something as well. 

The trade of a 1st round pick for him did no good either: he had to be the 2nd coming of Dominik Hasek to quiet some of the boo-birds.  That had to weigh on the team in general and him in particular.  I can imagine him thinking that he was never going to get mentally healthy in Buffalo.

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The trade of a 1st round pick for him did no good either: he had to be the 2nd coming of Dominik Hasek to quiet some of the boo-birds.  That had to weigh on the team in general and him in particular.  I can imagine him thinking that he was never going to get mentally healthy in Buffalo.

I understand what you are saying but I disagree with it. He was not going to get healthy until he agreed to accept medical attention. From what I remember it was the organization that helped him find the right medical services. And even when he was no longer associated with the organization it still kept in touch with him to see how he was doing. Anyone who has dealt with people with mental health problems knows that until the troubled soul is willing to acknowledge a problem and accept help for the problem the issue will remain and get worse.

Lehner being dealt for a first round pick had little bearing to his health situation. And playing in Buffalo with an inadequate team and being the target of a frustrated fan base was not consequential to his personal demons. He's a NHL hockey player who plays in a stressful business in front of a large audience. It doesn't matter what city he is in because the stresses associated with playing in a pro sport is inescapable everywhere. 

It wasn't until Lehner received medical treatment for his complicated health issue and continued to do what he had to do (counseling and medication) to remain healthy that he turned around his life and ability to play in his chosen endeavor. My point is that playing in Buffalo or any other location wasn't at the heart of his serious problems that went beyond hockey. 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The trade of a 1st round pick for him did no good either: he had to be the 2nd coming of Dominik Hasek to quiet some of the boo-birds.  That had to weigh on the team in general and him in particular.  I can imagine him thinking that he was never going to get mentally healthy in Buffalo.

I could see this.

[bob_sauve28]

Wow, Tampa is clutch 

[Eleven]

Just now, bob_sauve28 said:

Wow, Tampa is clutch 

Are you kidding me?  I just googled the score and decided I would watch the OT within the last 60 seconds!

[SwampD]

That is terrible D.

[BagBoy]

"Devastating" as Kathryn Tappen just said.