2C and 3C for 20-21

[Curt]

13 minutes ago, OhMyDahlin said:

I want a 2C who can be a 3C in a year when Cozens is ready.

There is zero point in spending all of our available assets to get Sean Monahan, when Dylan Cozens will make him expendable in a year.


Also...why aren't people worrying about the defense? It's bad. It needs to be drastically changed. Everything after Dahlin is garbage.

I think it would be unwise to move forward under the assumption that Cozens WILL be a good 2C at age 21.

The ES defense was not bad.  It was pretty good.  The PK though was horrible.  I think the total failure of the PK may be coloring your perception of the defense as a whole.

[Drag0nDan]

11 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

I think if we could add a 2RW in free agency (toffoli?), We could build a solid team with Monahan. 

What about Risto, mitts, and a 2nd (hell for Monahan, I'd send a top 10 protected first instead)

Lines look something like this:

Skinner-Eichel-Tofolli

Oloffson-Monahan-Reinhart

Johansson-Cozens-Kahun

Xxx-Lazar-xxx

 

Dahlin-Joki

McCabe-Montour

Xxx-Miller

 

Goalie would still be a problem, and I don't know if that would fit under the cap, but that is a good roster (dependant on reasonable players filling the xxx). Those top 3 lines are playoff calibre.

No okposo love?  

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

Eric Staal if he was available would be a nice get for the Sabres (if he is available) and would not cost high assets to obtain his services. Short term contract, manageable cap number, and a guy who 'won' a Stanley Cup (we know we were the better team deep down that year but still) and can provide leadership (former captain) And he is still productive enough to make an impact more as a 3C but even as a 2C into Dylan is ready to take that role.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ruff Around The Edges

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I think it would be unwise to move forward under the assumption that Cozens WILL be a good 2C at age 21.

The ES defense was not bad.  It was pretty good.  The PK though was horrible. I think the total failure of the PK may be coloring your perception of the defense as a whole.

The Sabres had the second worst rated PK in the league. Why was it so bad? Was the problem more related to the players or design of PK? I'm not making excuses because you are what you do. But this past season with an average to a little higher than average PK and with more consistent goaltending this team lost in the vicinity of eight to ten points in the standings. 

https://www.oddsshark.com/stats/defensivestats/hockey/nhl/penalty_kill_percentage

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres had the second worst rated PK in the league. Why was it so bad? Was the problem more related to the players or design of PK? I'm not making excuses because you are what you do. But this past season with an average to a little higher than average PK and with more consistent goaltending this team lost in the vicinity of eight to ten points in the standings. 

https://www.oddsshark.com/stats/defensivestats/hockey/nhl/penalty_kill_percentage

The bad PK and the shoddy goaltending fed each other.

The Sabres’ need to acquire an 2LD who can PK and play in a defensive role against good forwards has been not really been talked about much. Maybe Dahlin, Joki or Montour can learn the role.

But nothing will improve the PK more than a few big saves.

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres had the second worst rated PK in the league. Why was it so bad? Was the problem more related to the players or design of PK? I'm not making excuses because you are what you do. But this past season with an average to a little higher than average PK and with more consistent goaltending this team lost in the vicinity of eight to ten points in the standings. 

https://www.oddsshark.com/stats/defensivestats/hockey/nhl/penalty_kill_percentage

I think the PK was bad for a multitude of reasons. One that I can think of is the inconsistency behind the net (especially with Hutton who had some putrid results at times while other teams were on the PP). If we just start there and address that issue and get more consistent goaltending throughout the season, I feel the PK ranking by that alone will go from 30th to 20th by default.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I think the PK was bad for a multitude of reasons. One that I can think of is the inconsistency behind the net (especially with Hutton who had some putrid results at times while other teams were on the PP). If we just start there and address that issue and get more consistent goaltending throughout the season, I feel the PK ranking by that alone will go from 30th to 20th by default.

Well the Sabres used a very passive PK and it was a trainwreck. In addition, their gt had terrible Sv% on the PK. 

[Drag0nDan]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Well the Sabres used a very passive PK and it was a trainwreck. In addition, their gt had terrible Sv% on the PK. 

I feel like they mostly tried to use the 2 d-men to try and limit cross ice passes.  But it felt like if they completed the cross-ice pass it was a goal.  Half the time theyd fake it and it was still a goal from the shortside.

8 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I think the PK was bad for a multitude of reasons. One that I can think of is the inconsistency behind the net (especially with Hutton who had some putrid results at times while other teams were on the PP). If we just start there and address that issue and get more consistent goaltending throughout the season, I feel the PK ranking by that alone will go from 30th to 20th by default.

There was just a run where it seemed like every goal was a PP goal

[LGR4GM]

Did the Sabres use the 2-2 box or did they run the 1-1-2? 

[Drag0nDan]

18 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres had the second worst rated PK in the league. Why was it so bad? Was the problem more related to the players or design of PK? I'm not making excuses because you are what you do. But this past season with an average to a little higher than average PK and with more consistent goaltending this team lost in the vicinity of eight to ten points in the standings. 

https://www.oddsshark.com/stats/defensivestats/hockey/nhl/penalty_kill_percentage

Yeah - i think goalie was part of it.  It didn't seem like they had capable forwards or defensemen though.  Risto and McCabe were mediocre.  Scandella was bad.  Bogo was bad.  

Sadly, it went to hell when sobotka got hurt... how sad is that?

[LGR4GM]

I would put Dahlin and Joki on the PK and maybe even bring up Borgen who I believe was good at the PK (?)

[Drag0nDan]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I would put Dahlin and Joki on the PK and maybe even bring up Borgen who I believe was good at the PK (?)

I mean - the goal is they're available for 5 on 5 where they can have the most ability to tilt the ice in our favor.  It shouldn't be this hard to find defensive defensemen, and defensive forwards.

[LGR4GM]

I think in the case of Joki, he should be trained for the PK because he is probably never going to get much PP time. 

2 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I mean - the goal is they're available for 5 on 5 where they can have the most ability to tilt the ice in our favor.  It shouldn't be this hard to find defensive defensemen, and defensive forwards.

 

[Drag0nDan]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I think in the case of Joki, he should be trained for the PK because he is probably never going to get much PP time. 

 

yeah. Somehow the team had like 11 defensemen last year, and none were particularly good at defense.  I blame botterill.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Drag0nDan said:

yeah. Somehow the team had like 11 defensemen last year, and none were particularly good at defense.  I blame botterill.

To be fair this team's shot suppression was really good. I think they lacked the offense and goal-tending. 

[Drag0nDan]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

To be fair this team's shot suppression was really good. I think they lacked the offense and goal-tending. 

I just felt like when teams had power plays, they won faceoffs and maintained the zone.  If buf got it out, they brought it right back in no problem.  

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

The bad PK and the shoddy goaltending fed each other.

The Sabres’ need to acquire an 2LD who can PK and play in a defensive role against good forwards has been not really been talked about much. Maybe Dahlin, Joki or Montour can learn the role.

But nothing will improve the PK more than a few big saves.

Special teams as a whole were unacceptably bad. PP wasn’t as bad as the PK but should have been much better considering the unit we can send out there. The special teams, and the occasional perceived mis-usage of players are my two biggest concerns with Krueger going forward. 

Agree on the 2LD, can’t see it being Joki or Montour with a handedness handicap.

[Curt]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres had the second worst rated PK in the league. Why was it so bad? Was the problem more related to the players or design of PK? I'm not making excuses because you are what you do. But this past season with an average to a little higher than average PK and with more consistent goaltending this team lost in the vicinity of eight to ten points in the standings. 

https://www.oddsshark.com/stats/defensivestats/hockey/nhl/penalty_kill_percentage

Agree, and probably they could add a D who is a great PKer and that would help, but I think a lot of it was system and goaltending.  If the D is such trash, why were they good at ES?  It’s a combination of things on both the PK and ES.  Overall, I think this is the best D group they’ve had, post-tank.

[Marvin]

I am surprised Dylan Strome isn't an option.

[Drag0nDan]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Special teams as a whole were unacceptably bad. PP wasn’t as bad as the PK but should have been much better considering the unit we can send out there. The special teams, and the occasional perceived mis-usage of players are my two biggest concerns with Krueger going forward. 

Agree on the 2LD, can’t see it being Joki or Montour with a handedness handicap.

PP was pretty bad considering how little PP2 did. 

[OhMyDahlin]

6 hours ago, Curt said:

I think it would be unwise to move forward under the assumption that Cozens WILL be a good 2C at age 21.

The ES defense was not bad.  It was pretty good.  The PK though was horrible.  I think the total failure of the PK may be coloring your perception of the defense as a whole.

I'm just completely sold on Cozens, he's going to be a stud and I don't see the point in emptying our wallets for a player that won't fit in a year or two.

This team cannot afford to be trading all their draft picks, not to mention it will probably cost Cozens to get a young 2C.

So do we want Monahan for a couple years, or Cozens for a decade?

As for the defense, I just don't see it. The left-side is atrocious after Dahlin, and if we trade Ristolainen and/or Montour, the right-side will look the same as the left.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Special teams as a whole were unacceptably bad. PP wasn’t as bad as the PK but should have been much better considering the unit we can send out there. The special teams, and the occasional perceived mis-usage of players are my two biggest concerns with Krueger going forward. 

Agree on the 2LD, can’t see it being Joki or Montour with a handedness handicap.

I was more referring to the PK portion with that, but as the current roster is constructed, I would be moving someone over, as opposed to sitting Miller in favour of a prospect or a random 7.

56 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I am surprised Dylan Strome isn't an option.

He might be. He’s not as good as his stats, but as long as it’s at a cap discount price, he’s better than what we have now.

[Curt]

19 minutes ago, OhMyDahlin said:

I'm just completely sold on Cozens, he's going to be a stud and I don't see the point in emptying our wallets for a player that won't fit in a year or two.

This team cannot afford to be trading all their draft picks, not to mention it will probably cost Cozens to get a young 2C.

So do we want Monahan for a couple years, or Cozens for a decade?

As for the defense, I just don't see it. The left-side is atrocious after Dahlin, and if we trade Ristolainen and/or Montour, the right-side will look the same as the left.

I wouldn’t trade Cozens, full stop.  However, I would not let Cozen’s existence discourage me from adding a 2C quality player.  

I would say that a 2nd pair LD would be very helpful.  Someone to replace Scandella.  Then trade one of Risto/Montour for forward help.  Leaves us with........

Dahlin-Jokiharju 

XLDX-Risto/Montour

McCabe-Miller

I think that would be a very solid group.  

[thewookie1]

5 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I am surprised Dylan Strome isn't an option.

He's really not worth what his contract will likely become. He's Reinhart-lite who plays center and has all the same hangups about his skating. Even more damning though is his lack of production apart from Debrincat.

[Rasmus_]

On 7/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, sweetlou said:

There are several boards that talk about the idea but I wanted to start one specifically to get responses on what players fans would want to see in these two roles next year.

In your response of player wanted for position, what would Buffalo have to give up to obtain said player?

 

2C options-

Sean Monahan, Max Domi, Tomas Hertl, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Kyle Turris, Brock Nelson, Anthony Cirelli, Eric Stall, Adam Henrique, Ryan Johansen

3C options-

Nick Bonino, Adam Gaudette, Derrick Brassard, Andrew Copp, Derek Ryan, Chris Tierney, Radek Faska

Hertl and Faksa for me fix a lot of problems.  They're both responsible down the middle and can draw a face off.  Hertl is still only 26, and yes I am aware of the injury concerns, but the talent is legitimate.  Pass on:  Domi, Turris, Nelson, Johansen, Ryan, Brassard.  I like Gaudette, Tierney, Monahan, Cirelli, Hopkins, depending on the package.  They all offer something different.  Hertl and Faksa are guys I would love to have as our second and third line center's.