2020-21 Trade Rumors and Speculation

[dudacek]

55 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

It’s wrong to say most of these guys were acquired for the AHL.

I listed 22 players in the last paragraph. 13 were full NHL players when we got them. Only one of them currently has an NHL contract and at least 7 won’t be in the NHL next year. Because they weren’t good. Tennyson, Wilson, Elie, Gilmour, Griffiths were youngish tweeners who he rolled the dice on making the jump. Each of them were given jobs out of camp, had extended looks and failed. because they weren’t good. O’Regan and Hickey were prospects who failed. They weren’t good. Redmond and Smith were the only guys he clearly expected to play in the AHL and Redmond was actually acquired for a guy who is still in the NHL.

He wasted a lot of time and effort bargain-bin hunting: 22 swings and not a single NHL success story to show for it. What GM invests so much time and effort acquiring players that didn’t help their NHL team? 

Botterill struggled finding NHL players.

Edited July 15, 2020 by dudacek

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

.  

Maybe our definition of good players are different.  I look at what a player is supposed to be and did we get that? For example Lazar.  He was acquired for depth, primarily for the top of the AHL and turned out to earn a role in the NHL.  Calling him only a 4th line player diminishes the smart acquisition of a solid depth for nothing.  

I don’t think there is anything particularly savvy in signing a 4th line player to a 4th line contract to play a 4th line role. It’s baseline GM competence. 

I too look at what player is supposed to be and what we got.

He misjudged Sheary to be top six forward, Frolik, Vesey Simmonds and Sobotka to be middle-six forwards, Carter Hutton to be a 1A goalie, Nathan Beaulieu to be a regular defenceman, Marcus Johansson to be a second-line centre, Patrick Berglund to be a 2nd line centre, Casey Mittelstadt to be a 2nd line centre, Tage Thompson to be a middle-six winger and a whole pile of crap to round out the roster.

He added 3 puck-moving RHD to a team that already had one, and left it that way for an entire season. Ralph didn’t mishandle them, Botterill gave him a bad mix: Risto is better than Montour at Risto’s role, Dahlin is better than Miller at Miller’s best role, Joki deserved his role and Scandella and McCabe were better in their more defensive roles. You don’t give up a first-round pick and prospect for a defenceman who isn’t going to play on your top offensive or defensive pair, or on either special teams. You don’t give up a 2nd round pick for a guy who is essentially going to function as your 6th defenseman. If he traded Risto it may have made sense, but he didn’t trade Risto.

Edited July 15, 2020 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

Reinhart’s agent has no leverage to hold a desperate team hostage. The Sabres hold Sam’s rights for another two years

I'm not sure that's true. He can sit like those guys did in Toronto. This will probably still be a covid pre-vaccine world (especially in the U.S. the way it's going) and in that environment I wouldn't be surprised if lots of RFAs think it's not a bad time to hard ball and sit out. 

None of this matters anyway. Boeser won't be traded to us. Probably won't be traded anywhere. Absolutely nothing's going to happen except most, if not all, of our UFAs will sign elsewhere (even the KHL).

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What a load of BS.  You can criticize Jbot for blowing the ROR trade.  You can criticize that he didn't acquire enough good forwards.  You can argue he was to money puck oriented and drafted to many D early.  However he does know what a good player looks like. He acquired Lazar, Montour, Miller, Kahun, Skinner, Scandella, and Jokiharju for scraps.  All good players.  He patiently brought along Ullmark and Olofsson.  He kept them while dumping dead weight like Bailey and Baptiste.  Even Vesey, while not spectacular, gave us our money's worth in solid two way play.  Also his drafts are also showing solid promise, especially when compared to DR and TM.  From TM's 3 seasons and 25 picks we have  exactly three players, Eichel, Reinhart and VO.  His drafts produced two other NHL players (Nylander and Lemieux), one he traded and Nylander is a bust for a top 8 pick, which Jbot salvaged with the Joki trade.  Jbot's 18 picks are still maturing, but 11 are still on an NHL path, with Dahlin a fixture and Cozens and Mitts fighting for roster spots next season.  

No GM is perfect and they all make mistakes (Frolik for example), but to say he doesn't know a good player is BS.

 

First, his drafts are mediocre and stupid. 

Second, please name me the 11 players. 

I'll let someone else take the "money puck" comment which is hilariously a load of BS. 

[LGR4GM]

***** it, I am angry at something else so let's do this.

Jason Botterill's shittastic draft record.

Jason Botterill is not a good drafter. He overvalues Europe and USHL guys and severely undervalues CHL guys. But let us look at his record. Botterill made 18 draft picks in the 3 years he failed as GM of the Sabres. Out of those players we can completely remove Dahlin from the equation because an idiot could have fallen down a flight of stairs and still gotten that pick right. So that leaves us with 17 players that Botterill actually had to make a decision about. 

Dylan Cozens is the only sure fire NHL player. He is oddly the only CHL player selected. 

Ryan Johnson might someday be an NHL player but this pick was peak botterill stupidity. Nic Robertson might play for Toronto in the playoffs this season. 

Eric Portilo, might be an NHL goalie in another 4-6 years. 

Aaron Huglen, extreme longshot probably AHL at best

Filip Cederqvist, might never play in NA and the chances of him being much of anything are about 0

Lukas Rousek, same as Cederqvist

Mattias Samuelsson, might be a bottom pairing NHL guy in the mold of McCabe. 

Metej Pekar, might be a checking line NHL guy but most likely is a tweener.

Linus Cronholm, nope

Miska Kukkonen, also nope

Wiliam Kreu, another nope

Casey Mittelstadt, maybe an NHL player but Botterill screwed his development

Marcus Davidsson, mediocre center that might get a call up if he goes to the AHL for a couple years

UPL, good pick, lots of potential

Oscari Laaksonen, David Farrance because Laaksonen would have been there for another 3 rounds, what a reach of pick. Laaksonen has a small outside of shot of being a bottom pairing NHL defender someday but it looks less and less likely

Jacob Bryson, good pick and he has a shot to be an NHL defender but he may top out as a high caliber AHL callup

Linus Weisbach, some ppl think he has a chance, I don't. He's an overager barely scoring goals in the NCAA. 

So let's add all of this up...

I count 2-4 NHL players in this list. I find it very interesting that the best later round guys come from the first draft where GMTM still had staff involved. There are tons of misses but that isn't what really bothers me, it is the wild reaches and blindness to the CHL. Jason Botterill drafted like hot trash. He has completely gutted the Sabres ability to add meaningful offense to the team outside of Dylan Cozens. We are anther 2-4 years away from having a decent forward pool because of it. Compared to a team like Philly, Botterill drafts are pathetic. He was a terrible drafter who lucked out getting Dahlin and who's only really great other pick is being smart enough to take Cozens. 

 

[SwampD]

Why do I feel like you did a similar post after GMTM left?

[shrader]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

It’s wrong to say most of these guys were acquired for the AHL.

I listed 22 players in the last paragraph. 13 were full NHL players when we got them. Only one of them currently has an NHL contract and at least 7 won’t be in the NHL next year. Because they weren’t good. Tennyson, Wilson, Elie, Gilmour, Griffiths were youngish tweeners who he rolled the dice on making the jump. Each of them were given jobs out of camp, had extended looks and failed. because they weren’t good. O’Regan and Hickey were prospects who failed. They weren’t good. Redmond and Smith were the only guys he clearly expected to play in the AHL and Redmond was actually acquired for a guy who is still in the NHL.

He wasted a lot of time and effort bargain-bin hunting: 22 swings and not a single NHL success story to show for it. What GM invests so much time and effort acquiring players that didn’t help their NHL team? 

Botterill struggled finding NHL players.

I'm a little confused by the description of Hickey here, granted I don't pay much attention to what goes on in Rochester.  I see that his games played numbers are definitely low, but he's still just a second year pro at this point.  It sounds like this year should be that make or break year (assuming he's retained) and should finally get that playing time.  I'm not so sure that's a failure yet.  One good year and he could be on the Borgen path, a fellow second year pro.

And speaking of Borgen, it looks like he had some fun right before he took this profile picture.

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, shrader said:

I'm a little confused by the description of Hickey here, granted I don't pay much attention to what goes on in Rochester.  I see that his games played numbers are definitely low, but he's still just a second year pro at this point.  It sounds like this year should be that make or break year (assuming he's retained) and should finally get that playing time.  I'm not so sure that's a failure yet.  One good year and he could be on the Borgen path, a fellow second year pro.

And speaking of Borgen, it looks like he had some fun right before he took this profile picture.

Hickey is 24 years old and hasn’t even shown to be a good AHL player yet.  The odds of him becoming anything in the NHL are almost zero.

Borgen has a huge scar on his neck from a skate blade accident when he was a teenager.  That’s what you are seeing there.

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Why do I feel like you did a similar post after GMTM left?

We haven't drafted well in probably 2 decades. 

Murray drafted mediocre, Botterill drafted mediocre, Darcy drafted mediocre... and low and behold we are a bottom feeding NHL team because of it. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by LGR4GM

[bunomatic]

27 minutes ago, shrader said:

I'm a little confused by the description of Hickey here, granted I don't pay much attention to what goes on in Rochester.  I see that his games played numbers are definitely low, but he's still just a second year pro at this point.  It sounds like this year should be that make or break year (assuming he's retained) and should finally get that playing time.  I'm not so sure that's a failure yet.  One good year and he could be on the Borgen path, a fellow second year pro.

And speaking of Borgen, it looks like he had some fun right before he took this profile picture.

Either fun or ringworm?

[bob_sauve28]

https://buffalohockeycentral.com/2020/07/13/should-the-sabres-go-after-brock-boeser/?fbclid=IwAR0KSoJBZuk6TTVLVlVXrivnxy36UEqNvGoAvN_cwPN9TnYTMWOAlUmsUgg 

 

OPINION

Should the Sabres go after Brock Boeser?

Canucks may be exploring a trade

• 

• by

   Kevin Freiheit
•  
• July 13, 2020

Over the past weekend, there were some rumors going on after Rick Dhaliwal from The Athletic tweeted that the Canucks were considering trading Brock Boeser:

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

***** it, I am angry at something else so let's do this.

Jason Botterill's shittastic draft record.

Jason Botterill is not a good drafter. He overvalues Europe and USHL guys and severely undervalues CHL guys. But let us look at his record. Botterill made 18 draft picks in the 3 years he failed as GM of the Sabres. Out of those players we can completely remove Dahlin from the equation because an idiot could have fallen down a flight of stairs and still gotten that pick right. So that leaves us with 17 players that Botterill actually had to make a decision about. 

Dylan Cozens is the only sure fire NHL player. He is oddly the only CHL player selected. 

Ryan Johnson might someday be an NHL player but this pick was peak botterill stupidity. Nic Robertson might play for Toronto in the playoffs this season. 

Eric Portilo, might be an NHL goalie in another 4-6 years. 

Aaron Huglen, extreme longshot probably AHL at best

Filip Cederqvist, might never play in NA and the chances of him being much of anything are about 0

Lukas Rousek, same as Cederqvist

Mattias Samuelsson, might be a bottom pairing NHL guy in the mold of McCabe. 

Metej Pekar, might be a checking line NHL guy but most likely is a tweener.

Linus Cronholm, nope

Miska Kukkonen, also nope

Wiliam Kreu, another nope

Casey Mittelstadt, maybe an NHL player but Botterill screwed his development

Marcus Davidsson, mediocre center that might get a call up if he goes to the AHL for a couple years

UPL, good pick, lots of potential

Oscari Laaksonen, David Farrance because Laaksonen would have been there for another 3 rounds, what a reach of pick. Laaksonen has a small outside of shot of being a bottom pairing NHL defender someday but it looks less and less likely

Jacob Bryson, good pick and he has a shot to be an NHL defender but he may top out as a high caliber AHL callup

Linus Weisbach, some ppl think he has a chance, I don't. He's an overager barely scoring goals in the NCAA. 

So let's add all of this up...

I count 2-4 NHL players in this list. I find it very interesting that the best later round guys come from the first draft where GMTM still had staff involved. There are tons of misses but that isn't what really bothers me, it is the wild reaches and blindness to the CHL. Jason Botterill drafted like hot trash. He has completely gutted the Sabres ability to add meaningful offense to the team outside of Dylan Cozens. We are anther 2-4 years away from having a decent forward pool because of it. Compared to a team like Philly, Botterill drafts are pathetic. He was a terrible drafter who lucked out getting Dahlin and who's only really great other pick is being smart enough to take Cozens. 

 

That was among the finest kickings of Botterill's GM corpse I have seen yet, well done!

[Marvin]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We haven't drafted well in probably 2 decades. 

Murray drafted mediocre, Botterill drafted mediocre, Darcy drafted mediocre... and low and behold we are a bottom feeding NHL team because of it. 

Do you know what is sad about GMTM and JBot?  Their respective fanbases were bent out of shape because we got them -- many saw them as heir-apparents to their GM's.  Both, particularly JBot, were highly regarded in league circles at the time.

[Thorner]

19 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What a load of BS.  You can criticize Jbot for blowing the ROR trade.  You can criticize that he didn't acquire enough good forwards.  You can argue he was to money puck oriented and drafted to many D early.  However he does know what a good player looks like. He acquired Lazar, Montour, Miller, Kahun, Skinner, Scandella, and Jokiharju for scraps.  All good players.  He patiently brought along Ullmark and Olofsson.  He kept them while dumping dead weight like Bailey and Baptiste.  Even Vesey, while not spectacular, gave us our money's worth in solid two way play.  Also his drafts are also showing solid promise, especially when compared to DR and TM.  From TM's 3 seasons and 25 picks we have  exactly three players, Eichel, Reinhart and VO.  His drafts produced two other NHL players (Nylander and Lemieux), one he traded and Nylander is a bust for a top 8 pick, which Jbot salvaged with the Joki trade.  Jbot's 18 picks are still maturing, but 11 are still on an NHL path, with Dahlin a fixture and Cozens and Mitts fighting for roster spots next season.  

No GM is perfect and they all make mistakes (Frolik for example), but to say he doesn't know a good player is BS.

 

Anyone can acquire “good” players. It’s about expectation. Botterill could never acquire players who were good ENOUGH for the roles the team was counting on them to fill. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don’t think there is anything particularly savvy in signing a 4th line player to a 4th line contract to play a 4th line role. It’s baseline GM competence. 

Perhaps my favourite phrase in reference to Botterill’s positives. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Jason Botterill is not a good drafter.

Snip

He was a terrible drafter who lucked out getting Dahlin and who's only really great other pick is being smart enough to take Cozens. 

Botterill’s draft strategy was actively stupid. Just embarrassing. He was completely out to lunch with the severity with which he clung to his anti CHL bias. No one else drafts like that. 

Being rid of that draft strategy is in the top 2 reasons I was happy and relieved when he got canned. We went into each draft actively ruling out the biggest development league in the world outside of our very first selection in each draft. It was hopelessly depressing hockey wise. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

18 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Do you know what is sad about GMTM and JBot?  Their respective fanbases were bent out of shape because we got them -- many saw them as heir-apparents to their GM's.  Both, particularly JBot, were highly regarded in league circles at the time.

Peter Principle. You rise as far as you can until you reach your level of incompetence. 

[Brawndo]

 

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

 

If the Flames blow up that team...man that would suck so much for their fans. They have a great young core

[Brawndo]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

If the Flames blow up that team...man that would suck so much for their fans. They have a great young core

 

[WildCard]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

We should pick at the bones. If they want prospects/draft picks to restart for some of those established players? Sign me the hell up

[LGR4GM]

The Flames make sense for trading a RHD for a Center. 

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

 

[WildCard]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The Flames make sense for trading a RHD for a Center. 

Give me Lindholm/Monahan

[Brawndo]

As long as Chris Snow is AGM, scratch Risto off the RHD List. 

[dudacek]

Looking at their roster and cap situation, I think they are a natural trade partner. I think pieces like Montour, Risto, Mittelstadt, Cozens, Reinhart, UPL, and #8 all should be of interest to the Flames. Joki and Miller as well, even McCabe.

45 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

As long as Chris Snow is AGM, scratch Risto off the RHD List. 

That the guy who said ‘no’ when Burke was interested?

Edited July 16, 2020 by dudacek