nfreeman Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 2 hours ago, JohnC said: Attached is a 10 min interview with David Pagnotta from the Fourth Period on WGR with Howard Simon talking about potential trades for Buffalo and players available on the market. He brought up Laine from Winnipeg and noted that Ehlers would probably be a better fit for the Sabres because he is a more well rounded player. He talked about Domi and some other players and their availability. He brought up the Risto trade value and that Winnipeg would be interested in him. This is some good hockey trade talk. https://www.radio.com/wgr550/authors/howard-and-jeremy I listened to it a little while ago -- good stuff. One interesting point Pagnotta made, IMHO, was that there are expected to be fewer top-4 defensemen available this offseason than goalies and forwards, which will help the Sabres if they trade Risto and/or Montour. 2 1
Sabres Fan in NS Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 53 minutes ago, SyrSabreFan said: Not with Botts as GM. He turned it down. He should have been fired for that. Mission accomplished. 4
JohnC Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shootica said: I can't shake the feeling that if Winnipeg was really interested in Risto, that trade would've happened last year. Each year the situation is different for most teams. In addition, contract and cap considerations and roster roles constantly change. When one discusses trades it usually is more than a one for one deal. Many deals have multi-layers to it where the basic deal becomes a much more complicated and expanded deal. Edited September 4, 2020 by JohnC
thewookie1 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 For no reason I feel like Risto and a 21 2nd for Ehlers will happen 1
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Shootica said: I can't shake the feeling that if Winnipeg was really interested in Risto, that trade would've happened last year. 4 hours ago, SyrSabreFan said: Not with Botts as GM. He turned it down. Yeap, all but confirmed Ehlers for Risto was the offer. 4 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said: He should have been fired for that. Mission accomplished. I wish he WAS fired for that. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny
Sabres Fan in NS Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 EHLERS!! 😎 Bring hm to me ...
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: EHLERS!! 😎 Bring hm to me ... If we could somehow pry Copp along with Ehlers we'd be looking pretty good. I can't see for the life of me WHY they would move Copp when they are even weaker at C than we are, but maybe they are deluded in thinking Little is due for a bounce back/injury free senior citizen season and they have more faith is Roslovic and Harkins than they should and they like Mittelstadt. Risto, protected first next year, and Mittelstadt for Ehlers and Copp. Larsson has been adequately replaced in a real way with Copp, we get a bonafide Reinhart-level addtion to our top 6, at the cost of a reasonable 2nd pair defender living in a surplus, and two futures. Bringing in an Ehlers level player makes the 2C addition we still need much easier as Ehlers is going to help jumpstart the offence of that line. Copp helps too in this regard as we are spreading out the defensive responsibilities. I like our chances of getting an adequate stop gap 2C if we are potentially lining up Ehlers and Reinhart (insanely complimentary players to eachother) on either side of that player. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny 1
Trettioåtta Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 Ehlers is a left winger, right? That is basically one position we don't need support. We need 2C support! No point trading our log jam of D for a log jam of LW. Balance this team
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said: Ehlers is a left winger, right? That is basically one position we don't need support. We need 2C support! No point trading our log jam of D for a log jam of LW. Balance this team Exceptions apply when he'd be our best left winger and probably second best forward overall. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny 1
Trettioåtta Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Exceptions apply when he'd be our best left winger and probably second best forward overall. Sam is better. If we are trading for him then I hope Olofsson goes the other way. There is no point having Ovechkin, Marchand, Panarin and Draisaitl on the same team when their C/RW counter parts are replacement players. That team won't win
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) We can't not add a player that good when we can simply shift someone over to right wing. I feel like if the setup is something like - Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun Ehlers - X - Reinhart Skinner - Cozens - Johansson or Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson Ehlers - X - Reinhart Kahun - Cozens - Johansson ...it would make acquiring that stop gap 2C pretty easy. Again, assuming the defensive C is also brought in. That's why I mentioned Copp. But it could be someone else. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny 1
Trettioåtta Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: We can't not add a player that good when we can simply shift someone over to right wing. I feel like if the setup is something like - Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun Ehlers - X - Reinhart Skinner - Cozens - Johansson or Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson Ehlers - X - Reinhart Kahun - Cozens - Johansson ...it would make acquiring that stop gap 2C pretty easy. Again, assuming the defensive C is also brought in. That's why I mentioned Copp. But it could be someone else. This just highlights why you dont go for Ehlers and use your small pool of assets to get him until you get a 2C in place. In both your schemes you're playing an LW in top line RW spot whilst having a glaring hole at 2C. Use the assets to get a 2C and I don't think our line up looks awful 1
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said: This just highlights why you dont go for Ehlers and use your small pool of assets to get him until you get a 2C in place. In both your schemes you're playing an LW in top line RW spot whilst having a glaring hole at 2C. Use the assets to get a 2C and I don't think our line up looks awful Kahun plays both sides. So does Olofsson. The point in using assets to get Ehlers is that we can pay probably negligible assets comparatively for a McCann level C addition. Our net-talent acquisition is going to be larger in his scenario than acquiring say, Monahan. It doesn't make any sense to argue for any of these moves as if we are operating in a vacuum. "Don't get a really good player, who'd be better than almost every player on our roster, if he can be had for a reasonable price, because he shoots left" doesn't make much sense. You don't add Ehlers and call it an off-season well done. You add Ehlers and enjoy your reasonably likely to pay dividends stop gap 2C search, knowing you severely upgraded your talent through the use of mitigating a D surplus and a couple futures already. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny 1
thewookie1 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, Thorny said: If we could somehow pry Copp along with Ehlers we'd be looking pretty good. I can't see for the life of me WHY they would move Copp when they are even weaker at C than we are, but maybe they are deluded in thinking Little is due for a bounce back/injury free senior citizen season and they have more faith is Roslovic and Harkins than they should and they like Mittelstadt. Risto, protected first next year, and Mittelstadt for Ehlers and Copp. Larsson has been adequately replaced in a real way with Copp, we get a bonafide Reinhart-level addtion to our top 6, at the cost of a reasonable 2nd pair defender living in a surplus, and two futures. Bringing in an Ehlers level player makes the 2C addition we still need much easier as Ehlers is going to help jumpstart the offence of that line. Copp helps too in this regard as we are spreading out the defensive responsibilities. I like our chances of getting an adequate stop gap 2C if we are potentially lining up Ehlers and Reinhart (insanely complimentary players to eachother) on either side of that player. Your trade proposal is too rich for my taste. Just saying though if we got Ehlers I might go Skinner-Eichel-Ehlers Olofsson-2C-Reinhart Johansson-Cozens-RW3 Asplund-Lazar-Okposo Thompson is a tad troublesome though due to his inexperience and I really don’t want him with Cozens.
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) Any trade we get actual good players in is going to feel "a little rich". We aren't going to get Ehlers and Copp for Risto and Casey-who-we-don't-want and a random pick-we-don't-care-about Whispers - *Ehlers is really really good*. And he was the Jets best player going away in the "playoffs". - - - Ehlers would be a better fit with Reinhart than Eichel. Those two are both puck carriers and Reinhart is not. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny 2
Trettioåtta Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Thorny said: Kahun plays both sides. So does Olofsson. The point in using assets to get Ehlers is that we can pay probably negligible assets comparatively for a McCann level C addition. Our net-talent acquisition is going to be larger in his scenario than acquiring say, Monahan. It doesn't make any sense to argue for any of these moves as if we are operating in a vacuum. "Don't get a really good player, who'd be better than almost every player on our roster, if he can be had for a reasonable price, because he shoots left" doesn't make much sense. You don't add Ehlers and call it an off-season well done. You add Ehlers and enjoy your reasonably likely to pay dividends stop gap 2C search, knowing you severely upgraded your talent through the use of mitigating a D surplus and a couple futures already. No the argument is a) don't use your small pool of assets on a well resourced position when there is a gaping hole that needs fixing and doing so will compromise your ability to fix it and b) have we ever seen two Ehlers-sized moves in recent Sabres history in one off-season? If we got him, I would expect that to be the only change to the top 6 this off-season. We have one (maybe two) of Risto, Montour, Miller and Casey and the 8th / next years 1st / 2nd picks. Not a lot of wiggle room for a proper 2C who is young (especially as we also need a goalie upgrade)
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 Just now, Trettioåtta said: No the argument is a) don't use your small pool of assets on a well resourced position when there is a gaping hole that needs fixing and doing so will compromise your ability to fix it and b) have we ever seen two Ehlers-sized moves in recent Sabres history in one off-season? If we got him, I would expect that to be the only change to the top 6 this off-season. We have one (maybe two) of Risto, Montour, Miller and Casey and the 8th / next years 1st / 2nd picks. Not a lot of wiggle room for a proper 2C who is young (especially as we also need a goalie upgrade) I don't know why I bother lol 14 minutes ago, Thorny said: Kahun plays both sides. So does Olofsson. The point in using assets to get Ehlers is that we can pay probably negligible assets comparatively for a McCann level C addition. Our net-talent acquisition is going to be larger in his scenario than acquiring say, Monahan. It doesn't make any sense to argue for any of these moves as if we are operating in a vacuum. "Don't get a really good player, who'd be better than almost every player on our roster, if he can be had for a reasonable price, because he shoots left" doesn't make much sense. You don't add Ehlers and call it an off-season well done. You add Ehlers and enjoy your reasonably likely to pay dividends stop gap 2C search, knowing you severely upgraded your talent through the use of mitigating a D surplus and a couple futures already.
Trettioåtta Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: Any trade we get actual good players in is going to feel "a little rich". We aren't going to get Ehlers and Copp for Risto and Casey-who-we-don't-want and a random pick-we-don't-care-about Whispers - *Ehlers is really really good*. And he was the Jets best player going away in the "playoffs". The Blues got ROR for the equivalent of Johnsson, Okposo, Casey and 2nd. Maybe its our turn to fleece a team... 1 minute ago, Thorny said: I don't know why I bother lol A barely 30 point player is not the 2C we need... We might as well just plug Larsson in at that rate and save the assets
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Trettioåtta said: The Blues got ROR for the equivalent of Johnsson, Okposo, Casey and 2nd. Maybe its our turn to fleece a team... I also feel we should bank on a team trading us a conn-smythe level player for peanuts. Hey, it happened for us once already, to be fair. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said: We have one (maybe two) of Risto, Montour, Miller and Casey and the 8th / next years 1st / 2nd picks. Not a lot of wiggle room for a proper 2C who is young (especially as we also need a goalie upgrade) You don't think Ristolainen, Montour, Mittelstadt, an 8th overall, a 1st round pick, and a few second round picks are enough to bring in 2 players? Which 2C are we giving up Ristolainen, Mittelstadt, 2 firsts, and a second to get? Malkin? 7 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said: The Blues got ROR for the equivalent of Johnsson, Okposo, Casey and 2nd. Maybe its our turn to fleece a team... A barely 30 point player is not the 2C we need... We might as well just plug Larsson in at that rate and save the assets I would if i could. Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson Ehlers - Copp - Reinhart Kahun - Larsson - Cozens ...would be a really good top 9. Edited September 4, 2020 by Thorny 1
Trettioåtta Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Thorny said: You don't think Ristolainen, Montour, Mittelstadt, an 8th overall, a 1st round pick, and a few second round picks are enough to bring in 2 players? Which 2C are we giving up Ristolainen, Mittelstadt, 2 firsts, and a second to get? Malkin? More I don't want to give up literally all our valuable assets for one or two moves. I'm not opposed to getting Ehlers, but I would want the 2C solidified first. I would expect Monahan or someone of his level to cost Casey + first + two seconds. Maybe more. Leaving us little to shore up our goaltending. 1
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Trettioåtta said: More I don't want to give up literally all our valuable assets for one or two moves. I'm not opposed to getting Ehlers, but I would want the 2C solidified first. I would expect Monahan or someone of his level to cost Casey + first + two seconds. Maybe more. Leaving us little to shore up our goaltending. I guess it comes down to evaluation of the players. What is your scenario? Sounds like - a 1st round pick, two 2nds, and Mittelstadt for Monahan. Trading a D-man for a defensive C I'm guessing? Which one? And are you adding a top 6 wing? Mine is - 1st, Mittelstadt, and that defenseman, and we get Ehlers and Copp. I trade the 2 2nds for a stop gap 2c in the vein of a McCann, whom the cost shouldn't be exorbitant for. So, we'd both be giving the same assets hypothetically. My team has Ehlers, Copp, and McCann to show for it. Your team has Monahan and, presumably, Copp, after your D trade. I may take Ehlers over Monahan straight up, nevermind the fact we also have our 2C stop gap. We are getting more talent overall in my equation.
Trettioåtta Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Thorny said: I guess it comes down to evaluation of the players. What is your scenario? Sounds like - a 1st round pick, two 2nds, and Mittelstadt for Monahan. Trading a D-man for a defensive C I'm guessing? Which one? And are you adding a top 6 wing? Mine is - 1st, Mittelstadt, and that defenseman, and we get Ehlers and Copp. I trade the 2 2nds for a stop gap 2c in the vein of a McCann, whom the cost shouldn't be exorbitant for. So, we'd both be giving the same assets hypothetically. My team has Ehlers, Copp, and McCann to show for it. Your team has Monahan and, presumably, Copp, after your D trade. I may take Ehlers over Monahan straight up, nevermind the fact we also have our 2C stop gap. We are getting more talent overall in my equation. Maybe just a difference on talent evaluation - Monahan has broken 60 points 4 times vs Ehlers 2 times. And I take C over wing in that situation. I would use FA or Cozens to fill 3C role (Monahan is decently defensively responsible) and use excess D to upgrade goaltending and maybe replace a lost pick in this draft. Ideally we get two players of that calibre somehow. If so, then I dont mind trading the future a bit. Skinner - Eichel - Kahun Ehlers - Monahan - Reinhart Olofsson - Cozens - Johansson Edited September 4, 2020 by Trettioåtta
Thorner Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Trettioåtta said: Maybe just a difference on talent evaluation - Monahan has broken 60 points 4 times vs Ehlers 2 times. And I take C over wing in that situation. I would use FA or Cozens to fill 3C role (Monahan is decently defensively responsible) and use excess D to upgrade goaltending and maybe replace a lost pick in this draft I'm not trying to needle at the point honestly but..Monahan is not defensively responsible - if Cozens is the 3C and we aren't bringing in a defensive guy, or replacing Larsson at all, and running Eichel - Monahan - Cozens - Johansson, we will get slaughtered. 1
thewookie1 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Posted September 4, 2020 35 minutes ago, Thorny said: Any trade we get actual good players in is going to feel "a little rich". We aren't going to get Ehlers and Copp for Risto and Casey-who-we-don't-want and a random pick-we-don't-care-about Whispers - *Ehlers is really really good*. And he was the Jets best player going away in the "playoffs". - - - Ehlers would be a better fit with Reinhart than Eichel. Those two are both puck carriers and Reinhart is not. Honestly, if you swapped Ehlers and Copp's position I'd be fine with it. (If Ehlers were a Center and Copp was a Winger) But to me a true 2C is far more worthy of throwing around a 1st than a high tier winger. 29 minutes ago, Thorny said: You don't think Ristolainen, Montour, Mittelstadt, an 8th overall, a 1st round pick, and a few second round picks are enough to bring in 2 players? Which 2C are we giving up Ristolainen, Mittelstadt, 2 firsts, and a second to get? Malkin? I would if i could. Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson Ehlers - Copp - Reinhart Kahun - Larsson - Cozens ...would be a really good top 9. Skilled yes, but softer than a baby's bottom.
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