Cultural/Racial Bias and Discussion

[Sabres Fan in NS]

IMO,

To view what happened when the European invaders arrived in North America and when they really began to expand West as a war is not a reflection of reality.  

There was no war.  It was full on genocide.  The goal of which has been achieved.

You all don't have to accept that, or feel badly, or whatever, as it was not the only time this has happened.  Down through the ages this has happened over and over again.  I see no difference between what happened to the Native population here in NA (Canada was no better) and what happened in Rwanda, Nazi Germany and in Bosnia, just to name a few.

I feel very strongly about this and can not sit back and let people say stuff without saying my peace, especially now ... yesterday marked the 25th anniversary of the start of the slaughter in Srebrinica, which was the culmination of the genocide committed against the Bosnian Muslims.

[Ogre]

Here is an excerpt from All Things Considered. 
If you’d take the time to participate, maybe you would realize something that you hadn’t considered before? 

https://www.npr.org/2005/08/21/4805434/1491-explores-the-americas-before-columbus

[Ogre]

And as if we didn’t have enough reasons to admire the man, Mr. Gordon Downey...

https://www.downiewenjack.ca/

[LTS]

8 hours ago, Ogre said:

With this thread title, I assumed the point was to discuss cultural/racial bias. 
 

So far I’ve received a history lesson (an inaccurate one at that) and an excuse for why white people are using caricatures of Native People.

Emotion should be in this tread. Non-whites face discrimination everyday! Not just because of the color of their skin either. There has been a concerted social/economic effort to suppress the prosperity of non-whites. Every racist person knows that skin color doesn’t predetermine intelligence, and that eliminating white privilege would reduce their own influence and wealth, and that terrifies them.

And wouldn’t you be emotional too if your kin were directly affect by that bias? The whole reason my family was even in a cycle of poverty to begin with is because they were not white. 
 

None of you can understand what I’ve seen with my own eyes. My great grandmother lived a mile from the barricades the People put across Rte. 37. The entire conflict erupted because the government was telling the People how to govern their autonomous lands. They were told they couldn’t have the white jobs, but they weren’t going to be allowed to have gambling unless they shared a cut of the profits. (That damn white greed that started the whole thing!)

Trying being not white in the USA and see how much harder your life becomes.

 

Let me say this. I say "you can feel this way" because if I don't say it, I presume I will be questioned for not acknowledging that fact. It's kind of a catch-22.

As for my statement on history, whether it's 1 year, 400 years, or 900 years, the process by which one culture assimilates, dominates, etc. is my point. Call it war, call it something else. It doesn't matter really. They are words to describe the subjugation of one culture to another.  One nation over another. One governmental system, over another. 

Would I be emotional? Yes. As I said, though, I don't let the thoughts of the ignorant define me. I recognize the socio-economic divisions, the white privilege.  I absolutely love how passionate you are in this discussion. You are 100% correct that none of us can understand what you have seen. But I would also offer that just because a story has not been shared does not mean no story exists. Not everyone wants to share their stories, but that doesn't mean they don't have them.

I didn't quote your comments on the other sports franchises, but I appreciate the input. I shook my head when I read the dismissive BS from the Blackhawks organization. Now, if you tell me the people of that group support the name, then fine, so be it. But until I see that, I think they are full of crap.

7 hours ago, Ogre said:

Aren’t you making an assumption about someone you don’t know with this? I don’t recall insinuating what others have gone through. When I say “my own eyes” I mean the two that God put in my head, not the two that ended up in anyone else’s head. If anyone one else here was present for the chaos that swallowed Akwesasne, Massena, and Westville in the late 80’s then I’ll let them step up and recount their own version of it.

Again. Making assumptions about someone you don’t know. As a matter of fact, I’ve shared several PM’s with @Eleven over the years where I expressed my fondness. I’m sure if you asked Eleven, you’d find that he is well aware of the fact that I like him. The same goes for @LTS. A group of us had dinner and caught an Amerks game. We had a great time. I’m so fond of LTS that I even was willing to bring my lawn roller over to his house. Hopefully he recognizes the fact that I like him as well.

 So you didn’t want to get involved, yet you did. I would be grateful too if your involvement was more than piling on to share that you think that Ogre is bad. I get it. You don’t like me....but....IDC....thanks.

Dude.. I so need to aerate before I worry about lawn rolling.. and I also need to make some quality beer.. I recall you were looking for an exchange. ?

For what it's worth, my points about history are a commentary on humanity and nature itself.  The higher level of thinking that humanity has developed doesn't keep it from adopting the natural order. IN fact, one might argue that our "intelligence" can find new and interesting way to justify the natural order... against everything that is natural.

I'm not a fan of the way Native American people are/were treated. I'm not a fan of how all non-white people are treated. I don't have control over the past, I was not there. I don't have control over others, but I will speak out against them. I do have control over myself and my actions. 

This thread is not anywhere near the need to be locked. There are important discussions going on here that will drive awareness. The passion behind your points emphasizes the point that there is more than just the words being used to be considered and those of us who are interested should heed that when absorbing the information. 

 

[SwampD]

Just try to find a movie where the biggest douche bag in it doesn’t kinda look like me.

Edited July 13, 2020 by SwampD

[Ogre]

14 minutes ago, LTS said:

Dude.. I so need to aerate before I worry about lawn rolling.. and I also need to make some quality beer.. I recall you were looking for an exchange. ?

The roller couldn’t handle the weight of the water. Those tanks are only 1/8” thick so it developed a leak. I plan on reinforcing the axle but there’s a lot on the plate right now. 
 

If you could brew enough of that beer I could most likely gather an army of Ironworkers to stomp that lawn flat. It would take a LOT of beer though (and they may end up on your lawn for an extended period).

I also appreciate the clarification.

[SABRES 0311]

8 hours ago, Ogre said:

No! 
 

I'm not going to let this thread be about you!

Do you have something constructive to add?

Hopefully @LTS doesn’t close this just yet. There are other posters that have insight to add and need some time to be able to do so. 
 

I am very interested to hear their thoughts.

Since you asked I think most people today would agree non whites were treated unfairly. The ends don’t justify the means. That said you can’t change history but you can learn from it. 

If I wanted to raise awareness about bias I’d be worried about how the message is presented. So far I’ve heard all whites have a racist virus and that there will be casualties on both sides as if this is going to be a civil war. 

The thread be about me? Like I said I stayed out of it until you started acting like another poster was giving you permission to have feelings. Seems a little thin skinned.

 

[Ogre]

8 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Since you asked I think most people today would agree non whites were treated unfairly.

That’s your contribution to this thread? Non-whites were treated unfairly? Don’t you think that are currently being treated unfairly?

8 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

f I wanted to raise awareness about bias I’d be worried about how the message is presented. So far I’ve heard all whites have a racist virus and that there will be casualties on both sides as if this is going to be a civil war. 

When did I EVER say that whites have a racist virus? Show me where I predicted “casualties” and a “civil war”. 
 

Show me where I said that, *****.

These are some pretty severe accusations. Show me where I said these things.

8 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

The thread be about me? Like I said I stayed out of it until you started acting like another poster was giving you permission to have feelings. Seems a little thin skinned.

You started this exchange between you and me. You dashed in to defend someone else from my words. I think if anyone is sitting back neutrally observing this they would find your entire exchange to be extremely thin skinned.

1) I have the balls to say exactly what I think.

2) I have spoken with the person that you think you were defending and they have no problems with any of our discussion, yet you keep blathering on about it.

3) The harder you push on me about this “asking for permission” thing, the more you make it look like you’re telling me that I don’t have permission to feel the way that I do! How ***** ironic! I have every right to use the language I did, either directed directly at an individual or rhetorically towards the universe(as is the case here). If you don’t like what I’m saying then here is my advice.

1)Stop listening 

2)Leave me the ***** alone. I have just as much right to free speech as you do.

NOW the only thing I intend on engaging you on from here on out is the question I’ve posed directly to you because your wording lead me to assume a particular thing about you and I’m curious if I’m right.

Do you think that not-white people currently face bias in this country?

[SABRES 0311]

11 minutes ago, Ogre said:

That’s your contribution to this thread? Non-whites were treated unfairly? Don’t you think that are currently being treated unfairly?

When did I EVER say that whites have a racist virus? Show me where I predicted “casualties” and a “civil war”. 
 

Show me where I said that, *****.

These are some pretty severe accusations. Show me where I said these things.

You started this exchange between you and me. You dashed in to defend someone else from my words. I think if anyone is sitting back neutrally observing this they would find your entire exchange to be extremely thin skinned.

1) I have the balls to say exactly what I think.

2) I have spoken with the person that you think you were defending and they have no problems with any of our discussion, yet you keep blathering on about it.

3) The harder you push on me about this “asking for permission” thing, the more you make it look like you’re telling me that I don’t have permission to feel the way that I do! How ***** ironic! I have every right to use the language I did, either directed directly at an individual or rhetorically towards the universe(as is the case here). If you don’t like what I’m saying then here is my advice.

1)Stop listening 

2)Leave me the ***** alone. I have just as much right to free speech as you do.

NOW the only thing I intend on engaging you on from here on out is the question I’ve posed directly to you because your wording lead me to assume a particular thing about you and I’m curious if I’m right.

Do you think that not-white people currently face bias in this country?

I think non whites still have a rougher go of it. However it’s good to see groups like the Aryan Brotherhood and KKK pushed to the fringes of society instead of how accepted they were in the past. I don’t think most people are racist but if one has influence or money they can affect a large number of people. 

Van Jones said whites have a racist virus. A women said there would be casualties following the 2016 election during an in the street interview.?

[Eleven]

21 hours ago, Ogre said:

Making assumptions about someone you don’t know. As a matter of fact, I’ve shared several PM’s with @Eleven over the years where I expressed my fondness. I’m sure if you asked Eleven, you’d find that he is well aware of the fact that I like him.

We don't have any personal problems with one another as far as I can tell.

[Eleven]

20 hours ago, Ogre said:

I’m sure Eleven and LTS are both glad you jumped in to defend them but I don’t think they need the help.

Given that my basic point is "humanity is crappy no matter whether in North America or elsewhere," I don't think I even need a defense!

[Eleven]

15 hours ago, SwampD said:

Just try to find a movie where the biggest douche bag in it doesn’t kinda look like me.

TIL that Swamp is actually Billy Zabka.

[ubkev]

On 7/12/2020 at 9:56 PM, SwampD said:

Just try to find a movie where the biggest douche bag in it doesn’t kinda look like me.

I'm sure when you find it he'll look just like me.

[Huckleberry]

On 7/12/2020 at 10:36 PM, New Scotland (NS) said:

IMO,

To view what happened when the European invaders arrived in North America and when they really began to expand West as a war is not a reflection of reality.  

There was no war.  It was full on genocide.  The goal of which has been achieved.

You all don't have to accept that, or feel badly, or whatever, as it was not the only time this has happened.  Down through the ages this has happened over and over again.  I see no difference between what happened to the Native population here in NA (Canada was no better) and what happened in Rwanda, Nazi Germany and in Bosnia, just to name a few.

I feel very strongly about this and can not sit back and let people say stuff without saying my peace, especially now ... yesterday marked the 25th anniversary of the start of the slaughter in Srebrinica, which was the culmination of the genocide committed against the Bosnian Muslims.

Yup and what is happening in Europe to white people at the moment - Islam saying we are 2nd class citizens and should be treated that way.

Our culture being attacked on so many levels and we just sit here and accept it. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

14 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Yup and what is happening in Europe to white people at the moment - Islam saying we are 2nd class citizens and should be treated that way.

Our culture being attacked on so many levels and we just sit here and accept it. 

You do know who you are talking to here right?

Islam certainly is not saying that.  A religion can not speak.  Muslims may be saying what you say they are, but if that is the case then it would be a very small minority of not real Muslims that are saying it.  Muslims are people and they have all the same kind of racist ideas and misguided beliefs that others do in what usually are small numbers, except for white Europeans and North Americans where it seems that there is an abundance of hateful idiots.  Nowhere near the majority, though, which gives me hope.

You saying that your culture is being attacked is not helpful, mostly because it is not.

[Huckleberry]

7 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

You do know who you are talking to here right?

Islam certainly is not saying that.  A religion can not speak.  Muslims may be saying what you say they are, but if that is the case then it would be a very small minority of not real Muslims that are saying it.  Muslims are people and they have all the same kind of racist ideas and misguided beliefs that others do in what usually are small numbers, except for white Europeans and North Americans where it seems that there is an abundance of hateful idiots.  Nowhere near the majority, though, which gives me hope.

You saying that your culture is being attacked is not helpful, mostly because it is not.

That is the problem, it really is.   In certain city blocks of major European cities sharia law is basically been in effect for years.   Brussels, Paris many cities in Europe women can't walk on the street without being harassed by Muslims.     Not to mention the gang rapes that went on in certain English cities.    You can stick your head in the sand but the most racist culture / religion on this planet is Islam and I don't seperate the two.

There is an extreme Salafist movement going on in Europe, also thanks to our political leaders that allowed Imams come in from Saudi Arabia.   Bosnia has always resisted that movement so I would understand you barely know anything from the rest of Europe.   

[LTS]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

That is the problem, it really is.   In certain city blocks of major European cities sharia law is basically been in effect for years.   Brussels, Paris many cities in Europe women can't walk on the street without being harassed by Muslims.     Not to mention the gang rapes that went on in certain English cities.    You can stick your head in the sand but the most racist culture / religion on this planet is Islam and I don't seperate the two.

There is an extreme Salafist movement going on in Europe, also thanks to our political leaders that allowed Imams come in from Saudi Arabia.   Bosnia has always resisted that movement so I would understand you barely know anything from the rest of Europe.   

There are always extreme movements going on somewhere.  That's the problem with extremism.  The very nature of being 'extreme" means that it is not part of the mainstream, or it would fail to be "extreme". As such, equating the two is quite literally not possible.

You speak of "sharia law being in effect for years".  I am presuming you mean that there is a large cultural population in that area and they choose to live in a way that is not aligned with yours.  However, you also speak, quite generally, of Muslims harassing women walking on the street.  Harassed about what?  Where are they being harassed?  On all the streets?

For what its worth, your post is loaded with inflammatory generalities that commonly occur with those who are extremist themselves. They lack specifics but instead declare without a doubt that heinous and nefarious actions are occurring everywhere and people are choosing to "put their head in the sand".  

Your post, to me, as a non-European, non-Islamic, person comes across as one of strong prejudice and a lack of understanding of cultures different than your own. 

[LGR4GM]

Figured I'd drop this here... Discuss. 

12 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Lmfao.

Every power structure in this country is solemnly siding with these brave, heroic players, who cannot fathom why a good man trying to give his kids lolipops or some BS was shot in the back. Every major print and news media platform, sans one (1) tv station that is widely ridiculed by the rest in its own right, every single social media and internet service, owned by the most powerful entities in human history, who happily squash milquetoast opposition from this meaningful public square discussion, every single academic in every single university, along with every major corporation donating sums of money larger than most countries' GDPs to this "cause," while every single local official at every level of government in these locations tacitly endorses and allows and embraces the ensuing violence, while police stand down as your grandpa is beaten with 2x4s while defending his livelihood as it goes up in flames.  

What ***** planet are you people on.

Imagine a man whose history includes pulling guns in confrontations, having a loaded weapon stashed in his car discovered upon finally being corralled after violently interacting with police in previous iterations of his legal troubles, who had an outstanding warrant for sexual assault, which the cops were made aware of upon arriving on call because he was violating a restraining order against a woman. Imagine this man aggressively resisting arrest, fighting through being tased, escalating past all reasonable warnings given by cops, escaping their embrace, and aggressively sauntering over to that side of the car, at gunpoint this entire time, ignoring all of these orders nonstop, chance after chance. He gets into the car, starts to turn, and was found to be going for his knife - but had it been the previously stashed loaded weapon, and had cops waited a millisecond longer, bullets would be spraying in every direction on a crowded street with kids in the car right next to them. Cops know this, and have to react accordingly, after they've exhausted all other options. Imagine the sheer lack of comprehension you must have to have in your brain to not understand what all of these actions will lead to in the face of the situation you are inexplicably escalating beyond the bounds any sane man would dare approach? Imagine not simply complying in this situation? Nobody who sits and makes these asinine judgments from their cozy lives would ever come within a ***** light year of acting this way in this situation.

 Either this man is genuinely missing his prefrontal cortex, or he understands that rather than going to prison where he will be treated how people who sexually assault get treated in prison, he has a chance at being given millions upon millions of dollars along with forever-hero status by supposedly nonexistent real world and cultural power structures. Just like George Floyd's abandoned family. Saint George, the man who had enough fentanyl in his system to kill a horse without the cocktail of meth, weed, and alcohol he was also on, who overdosed while in the restraint correctly taught and sanctioned by the MPD, though the links on their website to the studies that justify its use were scrubbed by the power arms, along with the footage and knowledge of his aggressive resistance being deleted from texts by the power arm in the AG position. These are your heroes. They didn't do nothin. Why do these pig cops who work peacefully within these communities for decades then just suddenly decide to snap and shoot brown people one day, even though it will literally ruin their lives and the lives of their families forever because of these cultural and political forces??? That is some dedicated raycissssssm!!!! Truly.

I want a cop taking those shots every single time. This was accurate risk assessment in split second temporal spans that most "community watch group" advocates would spend simply shitting their pants and crying, while their surroundings crumble into ruins and their ancestors turn away in disgust.

Meanwhile, we get to deal with the result of this garbage setting race relations back decades, here in the real world. Such that every time some absolutely revolting demon of a person decides to violently resist arrest and put everyone around them in danger, we get our towns burned down. So brave though, Lebron, tweeting about how whitey needs to teach their kids how to not hunt blacks on the street for fun! If only this guy knew how to move past page 2 of the books he is intensely reading in his social media photos, or how to read a ***** bar graph. Good lord almighty. 9 unarmed blacks shot by cops last year, all justified except one, and the cop is in prison for murder in that case. On the order of dozens of millions of police/civilian interactions each year, this corresponds to one second out of your next few years of life. Systemic. 

assert: racism
National-level multivariate regression with like 5 controls out of infinite real world variables, ie, beyond useless: excellent, a 4% outcome discrepancy (that subsequent studies can make vanish by choosing one more control, but we don't talk about that)
therefore science shows: systemic oppression and systemic raycizm
stack of anecdotes: wildly distorted, flagrantly false, deliberately misleading, ready to go (With a dash of Ben ***** Crump witness ***** fraud) 
profit (and i mean serious, serious profit for all parties involved. life changing)

Wew! Read the room sweetie. You did a racism, you did a colonialism. Check yourself, check your privilege. 

I can't wait for the rotting corpses of Minneapolis, Seattle, Kenosha etc. to be shown as examples of "white flight" ten years down the line by smarmy retards pretending that their overproduced useless degrees mean something. When businesses won't reopen because insurance companies watched all local officials let them burn last time. You guys are the biggest, most pathetic and traitorous frauds Earth has ever seen. Proper controls on any statistical analysis make all of your precious gaps, without which your worldview could not exist, vanish, in a way that would make Richard Dawkins proud, and then you're left with nothing but the obscene and despicable primal behaviors of a tiny fraction of people you will stop the earth to defend for reasons no sane person would ever understand. Your studies are junk, your concepts are junk, and your overwhelming narcissism and superiority complexes when discussing these topics are beyond tiresome, and your self-flagellation to attain social status points is an embarrassment. 

Should I hit submit on this post? There's no going back. If I hit it I'm probably not coming back to this forum, or to the internet. Because off the internet is where you can find millions of sane people, who have also compiled years of pent up astonishment, disbelief, and rage that such a historically illiterate and incompetent country, people, movement can exist at this level of power and influence. I sat down tonight to take my mind off of things and relax, and instead was greeted with midwit takes I grew past as a teenager, from self-absorbed athletes pretending they're novel and interesting ideas, and not endlessly tiresome and statistically illiterate tropes. I have seen the ledge that takes people overboard with less to lose than I have, and I am done. I guess I will hit submit.


 

 

[Huckleberry]

23 hours ago, LTS said:

There are always extreme movements going on somewhere.  That's the problem with extremism.  The very nature of being 'extreme" means that it is not part of the mainstream, or it would fail to be "extreme". As such, equating the two is quite literally not possible.

You speak of "sharia law being in effect for years".  I am presuming you mean that there is a large cultural population in that area and they choose to live in a way that is not aligned with yours.  However, you also speak, quite generally, of Muslims harassing women walking on the street.  Harassed about what?  Where are they being harassed?  On all the streets?

For what its worth, your post is loaded with inflammatory generalities that commonly occur with those who are extremist themselves. They lack specifics but instead declare without a doubt that heinous and nefarious actions are occurring everywhere and people are choosing to "put their head in the sand".  

Your post, to me, as a non-European, non-Islamic, person comes across as one of strong prejudice and a lack of understanding of cultures different than your own. 

Just walking to work, their boobs /  ass grabbed, whistled at, being called sluts, whores.   Their morning routine getting to work.

And its very much part of the mainstream of those areas, so much companies are looking to move out of the city just because of it.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Huckleberry

[LTS]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Just walking to work, their boobs /  ass grabbed, whistled at, being called sluts, whores.   Their morning routine getting to work.

And its very much part of the mainstream of those areas, so much companies are looking to move out of the city just because of it.

This is widespread?  Is there coverage of this? It seems like there would be some level of coverage on this.

[Huckleberry]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

This is widespread?  Is there coverage of this? It seems like there would be some level of coverage on this.

Its on the news sometimes when girls film it over here, and I forgot the spitting when they get ignored.   That is a real charmer.

Problem is the news over here refuses to make much noise about it.  For example a girl gets raped and killed  its always the excuse of a 'man' with mental problems , bad childhood and living in a racist society that gives him no chances.    People in Europe are fed up with it and this is why you see a move to right wing and left wing parties.

Just google Rochdale sex abuse ring and you'll see what is going on.    All well respected muslims going after young girls.   And that happens all over Europe, but its hard to get convictions besides the ring leaders.   the 'clients' are very hard to prove to being a part of it.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Huckleberry

[LTS]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Its on the news sometimes when girls film it over here, and I forgot the spitting when they get ignored.   That is a real charmer.

Problem is the news over here refuses to make much noise about it.  For example a girl gets raped and killed  its always the excuse of a 'man' with mental problems , bad childhood and living in a racist society that gives him no chances.    People in Europe are fed up with it and this is why you see a move to right wing and left wing parties.

Just google Rochdale sex abuse ring and you'll see what is going on.    All well respected muslims going after young girls.   And that happens all over Europe, but its hard to get convictions besides the ring leaders.   the 'clients' are very hard to prove to being a part of it.

I can google that and I see a lot of information, but a child abuse ring is not quite the same as the widespread actions you are describing.  Child trafficking, sex trafficking happen in all countries and when a "ring" is discovered/arrested it's certainly shines a light on the problem, but I don't equate it to people not women not being able to walk down the street.

I'll read more if you share. You know the US news doesn't cover much of anything internationally.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

39 minutes ago, LTS said:

I understand the point you are making but the problem is there's a point in the discussion on the actions of the NHL players where you are saying it belongs in the politics club and I'm not sure that people agree with you on where that point is or where it should be, let alone agreeing with each other.

If we are to discuss "Around the NHL" then the players taking a stand against police violence is part of that discussion, because it's happening "Around the NHL".  This is why I suggested that if you want to draw the line you draw it at, discussion in the sports forum is strictly related to the sport on the ice and the business surrounding the sport on the ice and anything not related to actually playing the game (social issues, commercialism, etc.) ends up elsewhere.  I'm not saying I like the idea, but without that we are left with a subjective point to "migrate the conversation" and it will continue to ruffle feathers.

Perhaps the line is drawn at discussing the NHL players not playing but if the conversation extends to the event(s) which led to the NHL players not playing then it belong elsewhere.  In this case, we can discuss the impacts of them not playing the games, but if we want to cover the extent to which the police were justified/not justified in their actions that belongs elsewhere.  

I'm not sure of the right answer, but these events are likely to increase before they decrease so I'm just hoping to improve the forum understanding.

I sure as hell hope so. The lack of strict hockey subject matter is has taken its toll on those of us who allow hockey news and events to have such significant value in our lives. 

I have 2 issues with this....

1) justification or not is not the "root" of the problem. The problem is the lack of morals, self responsibility,  and faith( other than 1hr/week). If this were to change there would be much less police inter-actions and maybe less need for them all together. There's an old saying...."if you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

2) Why aren't these players protesting the violence that's killing innocent people on the streets everyday causing the police to get involved? There are many more people getting killed in this fashion.

Just to add another point, I'm ok with equal justice system .  However, my conclusion is if there is an inequality in minority vs white sentencing, then raise the white sentencing to equal that of the minorities and not the other way around. I'm sure that would make everyone "equally" unhappy.

Edited August 29, 2020 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[Marvin]

From the main board, Around the NHL:

'1) justification or not is not the "root" of the problem. The problem is the lack of morals, self responsibility,  and faith( other than 1hr/week). If this were to change there would be much less police inter-actions and maybe less need for them all together. There's an old saying...."if you can't do the time, don't do the crime".'

I have a different fear: I don't do the crime, but I do the time anyway.  I have a perpetual fear of being killed by someone in authority over my skin colour and/or religious beliefs.  If you don't feel this, you don't get it.

'2) Why aren't these players protesting the violence that's killing innocent people on the streets everyday causing the police to get involved? There are many more people getting killed in this fashion.'

Because I could die today from police bigotry and racism.  The survival instinct trumps all others.  Besides, the players DO work on those other issues.  But they may have been or seen their friends been targetted by police just because of their skin colour.  This has to be dealt with first because no one is exempt, no matter how law-abiding, we are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

'Just to add another point, I'm ok with equal justice system .  However, my conclusion is if there is an inequality in minority vs white sentencing, then raise the white sentencing to equal that of the minorities and not the other way around. I'm sure that would make everyone "equally" unhappy.'

No white would accept a black person shooting two white people at a Trump rally and just being taken in peacefully by the cops.  But the white guy who shoots two innocent people helping blacks?  He's a ****ing hero.

And you wonder why people cheered OJ getting away with murder.  That was the one time it went the other way.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

33 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

From the main board, Around the NHL:

'1) justification or not is not the "root" of the problem. The problem is the lack of morals, self responsibility,  and faith( other than 1hr/week). If this were to change there would be much less police inter-actions and maybe less need for them all together. There's an old saying...."if you can't do the time, don't do the crime".'

I have a different fear: I don't do the crime, but I do the time anyway.  I have a perpetual fear of being killed by someone in authority over my skin colour and/or religious beliefs.  If you don't feel this, you don't get it.

'2) Why aren't these players protesting the violence that's killing innocent people on the streets everyday causing the police to get involved? There are many more people getting killed in this fashion.'

Because I could die today from police bigotry and racism.  The survival instinct trumps all others.  Besides, the players DO work on those other issues.  But they may have been or seen their friends been targetted by police just because of their skin colour.  This has to be dealt with first because no one is exempt, no matter how law-abiding, we are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

'Just to add another point, I'm ok with equal justice system .  However, my conclusion is if there is an inequality in minority vs white sentencing, then raise the white sentencing to equal that of the minorities and not the other way around. I'm sure that would make everyone "equally" unhappy.'

No white would accept a black person shooting two white people at a Trump rally and just being taken in peacefully by the cops.  But the white guy who shoots two innocent people helping blacks?  He's a ****ing hero.

And you wonder why people cheered OJ getting away with murder.  That was the one time it went the other way.

You sound like someone I could sit down and talk with. I've had some discussions with a black gentleman in my apartment building and it was very amicable. 

I would love to be able to sit down with someone sensible without any racial tension on either side and just discuss and look at things from each other's perspective. I'm sure we've all grown over the years to believe certain things that aren't actually factual or could've been taught differently.

As for OJ... I watched a good part of that trial and felt he would get off. I also felt he was being set up at times. Irregardless of whether he did it or not, I felt the case was flawed. The words " beyond a shadow of doubt" sold me.