Sabres Picking 8th

[Thorner]

Getting a real 2C just opens up so many exciting possibilities - truly we could take a nice big jump. We not only get that top 6 talent, in itself huge, Skinner probably looks much closer to his 18-19 self, and we can even likely get away with keeping a big line of Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart in tact, which could be wildly effective if we actually have a 2nd line teams have to account for. We'd be expecting nothing of Cozens, 2RW seems much more achievable, and if he finds a fit with Jack, I'm DEFINITELY getting excited about a potential:

Olofsson - Eichel - Cozens

Skinner - 2C - Reinhart

...setup as, if Cozens actually earns that spot, we're looking at not just a good, I'd wager a great top 6. Eichel may be good enough to buoy that line to excellent results if Cozens is as capable as I'm hoping, and the best part, that second line has two bonafide FIRST line wingers. 

What a change. I'm thinking about the psyche of these players, too. And the other best part, if Cozens shows himself unready for that spot, it's not a death knell to our season as Kahun is a capable fill-in. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[freester]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If someone told me we were not making any C additions this off season, and we are shoehorning Cozens into the 2C necessarily by team choice, to me it has to read:

Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun

Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart

Reinhart absolutely needs to be displaced from Jack's hip to give Dylan the best chance. If it was up to me, in this scenario, I'm cutting my losses and running:

Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun

Skinner - Larsson - Reinhart

..sheltering Cozens (maybe even let him right shotgun with Jack in place of Kahun, if he earns it), protecting the future interests of the franchise, while hoping Skinner and Reinhart can provide a semblance of secondary scoring without a true 2C (but, with at least a strong defensive one).

So now Kahun is a top line player?  That is a recipe for failure. We need to add talent to our top 6 and not put players In bad positions where they will fail. I would rather put Kahun at 2C and acquire a quality 2RW. I also think that Skinner needs to be back with Sam and Jack. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, freester said:

So now Kahun is a top line player?  That is a recipe for failure. We need to add talent to our top 6 and not put players In bad positions where they will fail. I would rather put Kahun at 2C and acquire a quality 2RW. I also think that Skinner needs to be back with Sam and Jack. 

Did you even read my posts? lol

Also, 1RW, with Jack, is an infinitely easier role to fill than 2C. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[freester]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Did you even read my posts? lol

If Adams plan is to shoehorn Cozens into the 2C spot, he should be fired. 

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, freester said:

If Adams plan is to shoehorn Cozens into the 2C spot, he should be fired. 

I'm not sure you'd find a stronger proponent for "we need to acquire a real 2C, THIS offseason", than me. 

- - - 

If this is the bones:

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - True 2C - X

...I have zero concerns about the viability of filling X. We'd already have a 1st line winger on the second line, even a true 3rd line RW keeps that line's average solidly in the proper-2nd line range. 

- - - 

The new GM can make as many moves as he likes, to likely increasingly diminishing results, but the best course of action actually requires the fewest moves, quantity wise. 1st one admittedly will take some aptitude and ingenuity (they ARE paying these people), but the second 2 are run-of-the-mill GM baseline competence. 

- Acquire the 2C

- Trade a RHD for a LHD (hockey trade)

- Sign a back-up goalie. 

Put your John Hancock on that off-season transaction report with a flourish and reap the benefits of a return to fan base enthusiasm. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

43 minutes ago, freester said:

If Adams plan is to shoehorn Cozens into the 2C spot, he should be fired. 

If Kyvin gets fired then who replaces him?

The guy best at heating up frozen La Nova pizzas at KBC?

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I wish I could also be excited about a potential Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Cozens line 2 but..

I can't. Not when the most proven, not even top 6 - but just most proven NHL even strength player in that 3 is Olofsson, who isn't a very good ES player at this time. Even if you are stipulating that that a sniper addition is a part of that (unclear whether or not your wording means it's a necessity), we'd be looking at:

x - Mittelstadt - Cozens, - where we have a potential non-nhler in the second most important forward spot on a team, and a rookie to his right, or

Olofsson - Cozens - x, - which I suppose is the more hypothetically viable of the 2, but we'd be COUNTING on an excellent rookie season from Dylan even if the winger was a really good one, and to me I don't see that as an acceptable strategy considering the experience this organization has with what lack of C depth means. 

IF the 2nd line has 2 of Cozens, Mittelstadt, & Thompson on it, either this off season went HORRIBLY wrong or we aren't playing any hockey until '21-'22.  (Possibly both.)

But just now it dawned on me, IF the '20-'21 season doesn't happen then guys like Mittelstadt & Dahlin that wouldn't have had to be protected this off-season because they don't have enough experience WON'T have gotten that extra year of experience & they don't need to be protected against Seattle trying to draft them. 

(Fully realizing they'll play some sort of a season, but finally found a silver lining if they don't.  Sabres lose their 5th best D man (possibly 6th best if Jikiharju wouldn't have to be protected) or Hutton or a career AHLer F in that scenario.)

[Gatorman0519]

Cozens should start on the third line and should not see center duties for 2 years.  Let's not ruin another kid.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

IF the 2nd line has 2 of Cozens, Mittelstadt, & Thompson on it, either this off season went HORRIBLY wrong or we aren't playing any hockey until '21-'22.  (Possibly both.)

But just now it dawned on me, IF the '20-'21 season doesn't happen then guys like Mittelstadt & Dahlin that wouldn't have had to be protected this off-season because they don't have enough experience WON'T have gotten that extra year of experience & they don't need to be protected against Seattle trying to draft them. 

(Fully realizing they'll play some sort of a season, but finally found a silver lining if they don't.  Sabres lose their 5th best D man (possibly 6th best if Jikiharju wouldn't have to be protected) or Hutton or a career AHLer F in that scenario.)

Ill see your bolded and raise you: OR, 1 of them, in the middle of that line. 

Second bolded - ah, the joys of being stinky for years.

[Broken Ankles]

48 minutes ago, Taro T said:

IF the 2nd line has 2 of Cozens, Mittelstadt, & Thompson on it, either this off season went HORRIBLY wrong or we aren't playing any hockey until '21-'22.  (Possibly both.)

But just now it dawned on me, IF the '20-'21 season doesn't happen then guys like Mittelstadt & Dahlin that wouldn't have had to be protected this off-season because they don't have enough experience WON'T have gotten that extra year of experience & they don't need to be protected against Seattle trying to draft them. 

(Fully realizing they'll play some sort of a season, but finally found a silver lining if they don't.  Sabres lose their 5th best D man (possibly 6th best if Jikiharju wouldn't have to be protected) or Hutton or a career AHLer F in that scenario.)

Gary and his misfits in the front office would find a way to manipulate the Expansion rules and f*ck us. 

[Taro T]

Just now, Broken Ankles said:

Gary and his misfits in the front office would find a way to manipulate the Expansion rules and f*ck us. 

You're going to have 29 owners saying that their 3rd year players shouldn't have to be protected, 1 saying that sounds reasonable to him (no sense watching anything happen that can make Vegas' inaugural season look anything short of miraculous), and 1 saying "that's not fair."  

Wouldn't want to have money on it that Seattle wins that fight.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

16 hours ago, freester said:

So now Kahun is a top line player?  That is a recipe for failure. We need to add talent to our top 6 and not put players In bad positions where they will fail. I would rather put Kahun at 2C and acquire a quality 2RW. I also think that Skinner needs to be back with Sam and Jack. 

Kahun could make it on the top line if he is with Skinner and Eichel (and maybe even Reino and Eichel), but I don't know if he fits with Eichel and Olof yet.  Kahuna and Olof and both undersized wingers and I would worry about their effectiveness - on the same line - down low.  

16 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'm not sure you'd find a stronger proponent for "we need to acquire a real 2C, THIS offseason", than me. 

- - - 

If this is the bones:

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - True 2C - X

...I have zero concerns about the viability of filling X. We'd already have a 1st line winger on the second line, even a true 3rd line RW keeps that line's average solidly in the proper-2nd line range. 

- - - 

The new GM can make as many moves as he likes, to likely increasingly diminishing results, but the best course of action actually requires the fewest moves, quantity wise. 1st one admittedly will take some aptitude and ingenuity (they ARE paying these people), but the second 2 are run-of-the-mill GM baseline competence. 

- Acquire the 2C

- Trade a RHD for a LHD (hockey trade)

- Sign a back-up goalie. 

Put your John Hancock on that off-season transaction report with a flourish and reap the benefits of a return to fan base enthusiasm. 

A "True 2C" would immediately give Kyvyn some credibility, and I think it's doable with the cap crunch a lot of teams are facing and the number of serviceable players and prospects the Sabre's have.  More importantly it places less pressure on the 3rd line to do anything more than chip in every other game and get better, properly allowing the younger players develop.   I'd be happy if we saw the following and only had to part with Risto, 1 or 2 prospects, and #8 overall:

Olof - Eichel - Sam

Skinner - True 2C - Johansson/Kahun

Tage/Casey - Cozens - Johansson/Kahun

Girgs - Larry - Okposo

Extra: Lazar & tbd

Edited June 30, 2020 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[Curt]

Why is the 20-21 Lineup Thread in the Sabres Picking 8th Thread???

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

Why is the 20-21 Lineup Thread in the Sabres Picking 8th Thread???

I thought it was appropriate since we are talking about using that 8th round pick to get a 2C and help shape the line-up

[Curt]

Fair enough, but..........

There is also a Thread called What to do with the 8th Pick?  Lol

[Kruppstahl]

On 6/29/2020 at 7:57 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Only the NHL would create a system where the most likely outcome for a team finishing 7th was the 8th pick.

Or hold a draft lottery that has no winner, necessitating draft lottery round 2 further down the road.

I've heard the whole thing was sort of a PR tire fire, but then again, the lottery usually is.

Watching the NHL try to make itself relevant is never a good thing. 

I wish they would revisit their "limited interest, small regional sport" status and embrace it.

 

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

Or hold a draft lottery that has no winner, necessitating draft lottery round 2 further down the road.

I've heard the whole thing was sort of a PR tire fire, but then again, the lottery usually is.

Watching the NHL try to make itself relevant is never a good thing. 

I wish they would revisit their "limited interest, small regional sport" status and embrace it.

 

 

 

I wish they would just use their brains.  Dump the lottery system and go back to where you finish is where you finish.  Tanking doesn't do anyone any good so who cares if a team tanks.  All bad teams sell assets at the deadline and off-season to acquire future talent.  That's why you have a draft.

[Curt]

On 6/29/2020 at 7:57 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Only the NHL would create a system where the most likely outcome for a team finishing 7th was the 8th pick.

The NBA created it, the NHL copied it.  I like it, I think it works.  The idea is to remove the incentive for embarrassing tanking (remember what that is like?), and it does that.

[LGR4GM]

16 hours ago, Curt said:

The NBA created it, the NHL copied it.  I like it, I think it works.  The idea is to remove the incentive for embarrassing tanking (remember what that is like?), and it does that.

... Detroit this year was embarrassing. If anything I think in incentives tanking more. You now need to finish dead last to have any real shot at a top 3 pick outside of luck. Worse is that you can miss the playoffs on a tiebreaker and get lucky and win the first overall pick. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

... Detroit this year was embarrassing. If anything I think in incentives tanking more. You now need to finish dead last to have any real shot at a top 3 pick outside of luck. Worse is that you can miss the playoffs on a tiebreaker and get lucky and win the first overall pick. 

Huh?..............

What gives more incentive to tank?

-Finish last and get 1st pick

OR

-Finish last and you could get 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.  With 4th being 50% likely.

Doesn't a guaranteed 1st pick make you want to tank more than a 15% chance of getting the 1st pick?

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

Huh?..............

What gives more incentive to tank?

-Finish last and get 1st pick

OR

-Finish last and you could get 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.  With 4th being 50% likely.

Doesn't a guaranteed 1st pick make you want to tank more than a 15% chance of getting the 1st pick?

the 2nd one because if I don't finish last, let's say I finish 3rd... I can now draft 6th. So for me I would rather a team tank once because basically tanking has been happening forever. Bad teams trading good players to re-set. As opposed to bad teams like detroit now drafting 4th so they will tank and be bad again next year. The current system means teams stay bad longer and tank more. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

the 2nd one because if I don't finish last, let's say I finish 3rd... I can now draft 6th. So for me I would rather a team tank once because basically tanking has been happening forever. Bad teams trading good players to re-set. As opposed to bad teams like detroit now drafting 4th so they will tank and be bad again next year. The current system means teams stay bad longer and tank more. 

Wait until it reaches the trades....

NYR: hey Carolina, we'll trade you Panarin for a conditional 1st rd pick. The condition being you have to tank while we go on to the cup.

Car: will do.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Wait until it reaches the trades....

NYR: hey Carolina, we'll trade you Panarin for a conditional 1st rd pick. The condition being you have to tank while we go on to the cup.

Car: will do.

No they won't. Carolina has to make the playoffs to make money. While I understand what you are saying, no team is going to do that. Tanking requires you to bench or gut your roster of talent. It isn't just you suddenly playing like poop. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

the 2nd one because if I don't finish last, let's say I finish 3rd... I can now draft 6th. So for me I would rather a team tank once because basically tanking has been happening forever. Bad teams trading good players to re-set. As opposed to bad teams like detroit now drafting 4th so they will tank and be bad again next year. The current system means teams stay bad longer and tank more. 

Detroit this year wasn’t tanking.  They are just bad and have restrictive cap problems.

Rebuilding is trading current assets for future assets.  Tanking is trading 3 goalies in a season when they start to play too well and you are afraid you won’t finish last, and your home crowd is actively cheering for the other team to win so you can clinch last place.  That’s the kind of embarrassing that I’m talking about.  That’s what the league doesn’t want to see.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Curt

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

No they won't. Carolina has to make the playoffs to make money. While I understand what you are saying, no team is going to do that. Tanking requires you to bench or gut your roster of talent. It isn't just you suddenly playing like poop. 

But yet if the Rags beat the Canes and go on to the Cup, they still have CAR pick which could get them Lafreniere. And the Canes don't have to "tank".

Edited July 1, 2020 by MakeSabresGrr8Again