Sabres Picking 8th

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Agree that Cirelli would have to agree to an extension.  I would not trade Risto, Mitts, and the #8 pick in round 1 for Cirelli and Tampa’s #1.  Our pick at 8 is going to be a good player and I serious doubt Cirelli would commit to an extension in Hockey Hell. 

Prefer to move Montour and keep Risto.  

Mitts may have good upside once he gets a man body, he still is not strong enough.   Is he willing to do the work? 
 

Hutton is done.  Bringing in a goalie on par with Uhlmark is necessary.  
 

 

 

If in a proposed Cirelli deal he doesn't agree to a contract then there is no deal. That's an obvious call. 

As far as preferring to move Montour and keep Risto the next question is what is his market value? I don't believe it is much. As I and others have said if you want a genuine caliber 2C it is going to come with a steep price. Montour is not going to be much of a factor in getting a second line player whereas Risto is. 

I disagree with you that Hutton is done. He is a backup goalie whose starts should be limited. Were his eye issues a factor to his erratic play? I'm not sure. The bigger factor that relates to this team's success beyond other personnel moves is the play of Ullmark. If he can consistently play at a solid (not top tier) level that will be the biggest factor in this team being better. As I stated in a prior post if this team gets consistent solid goaltending and it can clean up its PK problems this is an improved team. That is not to say that other moves don't need to be made that better balances out the roster. 

It's my strong belief that if this front office makes a few judicious moves with the bulk of this roster still in tact this team can move up the ranks. In the NHL with its designed parity resulting from the cap system the difference between being a playoff team and being middling team is miniscule.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

True, but we might not like the offer we need to match.  Reinhart is going to get paid.  Then Dahlin.  

OK, but that secures our 4 best players long-term.  All entering their prime.  That's a risk we can afford.  Also we are taking probably 6-7 per player for Cirelli, Samson and Dahlin.  With Jack's deal, thats about 31 mill for our core, with 50 mill left to fill out the roster.  That's nearly 3 mill per remaining player.  That's doable.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Cirelli is an RFA.  Where is going to go?  I guess he could hold out, but no one is going to make a Vanek type offer to him and he isn't going to the KHL.  We'd have the right to match any offer sheet anyway and once we did he'd be a Sabre.  

 

42 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I would add any defenseman that isn't 10/26, any prospect(s) not named Cozens, and any forward that isn't 9/23/68 to Mitts and 8 to get Cirelli 

Why would any team trade the equivalent of 5 1st rounders (Mitts, Risto, pick 8, Johnson and Thompson) for Cirelli when they could sign him to a 7-year 50-million offer sheet and give up just a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

[dudacek]

Threaten Tampa with an offer sheet, tell them we’ll back off if they take Mitts, this year’s 2nd and next year’s 1st for Cirelli, and dare the the rest of the league to beat that offer.

[Randall Flagg]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Why would any team trade the equivalent of 5 1st rounders (Mitts, Risto, pick 8, Johnson and Thompson) for Cirelli when they could sign him to a 7-year 50-million offer sheet and give up just a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

Because Risto and Thompson and Johnson don't possess the trade value you think they do/calling them 1st rounders implies 

 

And Mitts, for that matter

 

Something like Montour (I assume tampa doesn't want Risto), Ryan Johnson, Tage, Mitts, a crappy forward (I did forget about Kahun, let's not include him), and the 8th overall pick is definitely worth giving up for a young lad on an ELC that is going to be a Selke finalist in a position of need with all of the immeasurable boxes in terms of desirable play style checked

I don't care where those players were taken 3, 4, 7 years ago, their value has changed

Edited June 27, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[Randall Flagg]

That being said, I like that offersheet idea too. Scared Tampa would match and find a way to make salaries work, and move other players or Cirelli to other teams after getting pissed off at us

[Radar]

10 hours ago, Tondas said:

I'm really trying to get pumped for this draft, but I can't.  And I was a season ticket holder.  Do, don't do, there is no try.

Most drafts , at least NHL drafts are usually only interesting when it involves meaningful trades. Frankly I hope they package our eight pick to get offensive help. Our first and one of our rostered  players hopefully could add to our scoring.

[Randall Flagg]

Just dress up the deal. Losing guys like Tage or a defensive prospect is not going to materially harm us going forward. Make it sting a little, anything to get the piece that will make all the difference to our immediate future and ripple forward in  time to pull us out of this rut

[Curt]

37 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

True, but we might not like the offer we need to match.  Reinhart is going to get paid.  Then Dahlin.  

There will be enough money to add another pretty good forward and also to sign Dahlin.  Even if Reinhart and Cirelli each got $7M I think.

[GASabresIUFAN]

29 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Why would any team trade the equivalent of 5 1st rounders (Mitts, Risto, pick 8, Johnson and Thompson) for Cirelli when they could sign him to a 7-year 50-million offer sheet and give up just a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

I agree

[freester]

9 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Because Risto and Thompson and Johnson don't possess the trade value you think they do/calling them 1st rounders implies 

 

And Mitts, for that matter

 

Something like Montour (I assume tampa doesn't want Risto), Ryan Johnson, Tage, Mitts, a crappy forward (I did forget about Kahun, let's not include him), and the 8th overall pick is definitely worth giving up for a young lad on an ELC that is going to be a Selke finalist in a position of need with all of the immeasurable boxes in terms of desirable play style checked

I don't care where those players were taken 3, 4, 7 years ago, their value has changed

You can’t give Tampa all these players they can’t protect in the expansion draft. They are of no value to Tampa. They will only take one player back that they must protect. The rest must be prospects or draft picks. 

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Radar said:

Most drafts , at least NHL drafts are usually only interesting when it involves meaningful trades. Frankly I hope they package our eight pick to get offensive help. Our first and one of our rostered  players hopefully could add to our scoring.

Yeah, I remember how boring it was when Buffalo drafted Cozens last offseason.  Big time yawn.  Just kidding!  I was pumped!

I find the drafting of players to be very interesting.  I think the Buffalo Sabres have just broken all hope within you.

[Curt]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Why would any team trade the equivalent of 5 1st rounders (Mitts, Risto, pick 8, Johnson and Thompson) for Cirelli when they could sign him to a 7-year 50-million offer sheet and give up just a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

Because, Cirelli has to agree to sign the offer sheet with Buffalo in that scenario.  Whereas with a trade, Cirelli doesn’t get to choose.

[Radar]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

Yeah, I remember how boring it was when Buffalo drafted Cozens last offseason.  Big time yawn.  Just kidding!  I was pumped!

I find the drafting of players to be very interesting.  I think the Buffalo Sabres have just broken all hope within you.

Well yes the Sabres can do that? . Also is the factor that at my age (77) I'm not to interested in futures.

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Because Risto and Thompson and Johnson don't possess the trade value you think they do/calling them 1st rounders implies 

 

And Mitts, for that matter

 

Something like Montour (I assume tampa doesn't want Risto), Ryan Johnson, Tage, Mitts, a crappy forward (I did forget about Kahun, let's not include him), and the 8th overall pick is definitely worth giving up for a young lad on an ELC that is going to be a Selke finalist in a position of need with all of the immeasurable boxes in terms of desirable play style checked

I don't care where those players were taken 3, 4, 7 years ago, their value has changed

Sure, but that doesn’t change my point that those 5 Sabres are not atypical of what 5 first rounders will turn into.

It also doesn’t change my point that those 5 Sabres are worth more than a random 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, freester said:

You can’t give Tampa all these players they can’t protect in the expansion draft. They are of no value to Tampa. They will only take one player back that they must protect. The rest must be prospects or draft picks. 

Tampa already has something like 13 players better than someone like Tage/Mitts.  They can only lose one player.

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Because Risto and Thompson and Johnson don't possess the trade value you think they do/calling them 1st rounders implies 

 

And Mitts, for that matter

 

Something like Montour (I assume tampa doesn't want Risto), Ryan Johnson, Tage, Mitts, a crappy forward (I did forget about Kahun, let's not include him), and the 8th overall pick is definitely worth giving up for a young lad on an ELC that is going to be a Selke finalist in a position of need with all of the immeasurable boxes in terms of desirable play style checked

I don't care where those players were taken 3, 4, 7 years ago, their value has changed

This raises an interesting question: what is the value of these assets?
Assuming you are a team that can afford to be trading away picks, and your roster has a need for  player/prospect of that type, how high a pick would you give up for the asset?

For me:

Risto 20

Mitts 30-35

Johnson 35-40

Thompson 50-60

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Because, Cirelli has to agree to sign the offer sheet with Buffalo in that scenario.  Whereas with a trade, Cirelli doesn’t get to choose.

Yes indeedly.

However, if (and I don't expect this for a minute) the Sabres decide to break the mold and offer Cirelli a contract, it's pretty likely that their offer (maybe something like $7MM x 7 years) would be a LOT more $$ than what TB can offer him, and that the Sabres and TB would be Cirelli's only 2 options -- since it's likely that no one else would make an offer.

So it's not impossible, although again I don't expect the Sabres to make waves in this manner.

 

[Brawndo]

Botterill in his infinite wisdom traded the Sabres 2021 3rd to The Rangers for Jimmy Vesey, severely limiting the offer sheet Adams can  utilize for a player such as Cirelli 

[steveoath]

Pickwise,  if Rossi is gone as many suspect then I like what I am reading about Lundell. Needs to work on skating, but a solid and reliable 2 way C. 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2020-nhl-draft/player-profiles/Anton-Lundell 

[DarthEbriate]

22 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Botterill in his infinite wisdom traded the Sabres 2021 3rd to The Rangers for Jimmy Vesey, severely limiting the offer sheet Adams can  utilize for a player such as Cirelli 

This. Clearly RFA poaching (or the threat thereof) was not on the radar.

We just need to trade with the Rangers to get back our 3rd...

[dudacek]

52 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

This. Clearly RFA poaching (or the threat thereof) was not on the radar.

We just need to trade with the Rangers to get back our 3rd...

Wonder if they’ll take Vesey back ?

(To all who said that was a bad trade from the get-go, you were right.)

Edited June 27, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

While I think the pick will be Holtz based on the rankings, Sanderson may be the guy if available.  The newly hired Crowe knows him well from his time at the USNTDP and this would be a very safe pick for our inexperienced GM and his inexperienced staff.

 

If TB offers us Cirelli for Risto and this pick do you make the deal?

Oh my garsh yes. 

- - - 

The only thing I like about Holtz, if he's the pick..he's a right shot winger and we have none.

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

Why would any team trade the equivalent of 5 1st rounders (Mitts, Risto, pick 8, Johnson and Thompson) for Cirelli when they could sign him to a 7-year 50-million offer sheet and give up just a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

 

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Botterill in his infinite wisdom traded the Sabres 2021 3rd to The Rangers for Jimmy Vesey, severely limiting the offer sheet Adams can  utilize for a player such as Cirelli 

 

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Wonder if they’ll take Vesey back ?

(To all who said that was a bad trade from the get-go, you were right.)

And he did this...with the plan being a "cap space" offseason this summer. Ya know, the time when we'd have to ability to make that offer sheet...loll

SOYLENT GREEN IS...THERE WAS NO ACTUAL PLAN

Edited June 27, 2020 by Thorny