Sabres Picking 8th

[LGR4GM]

Holtz is interesting. Raymond is interesting. hmmmmm 

[dudacek]

9 hours ago, Reino23 said:

For like 6 games, you think he still remembers him? lol

Damn, and just like that, dreams are dashed.

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

8.) Buffalo Sabres – Marco Rossi, Centre/Left Wing, Ottawa 67’s, OHL

Rossi scored 39 goals and 81 assists for 120 points in just 56 games this year. He was a dynamic offensive force for the Ottawa 67s, helping them to be one of the best teams in the OHL. When the OHL season was stopped due to Covid-19, he had a nine-point lead for the league scoring title. Rossi has a quick wrist shot with an excellent release. When defenders back off, he can use them as a screen and fire a shot on net. He also has an excellent one-timer. Rossi is talented as both a playmaker and a shooter. He has the passing skills to set up his linemates and make them better. His ability to extend plays through his work down low really lets him take advantage of these playmaking abilities.  Despite his lack of size, he plays the game in the dirty areas of the ice.

The Sabres have their franchise centre in Jack Eichel. It was hoped that Casey Mittelstadt would become the number two centre. That hasn’t happened yet, but it’s still too early to write him off. The Sabres drafted Dylan Cozens at 7th overall a year ago, and he might become that centre behind Eichel. Rossi becomes another option to fill that role. As noted earlier, a team can not have too many good centres. Rossi is the best player on the board at this point. If all three develop, they can always move one of the players to the wing or trade them for other assets. The Sabres need scoring depth and Rossi will help bring that eventually. He’s also good in his own end.

And just like that, back again. ?

2 hours ago, steveoath said:

Rossi is my hope, but I am getting good vibes on Lundell. I think he would fit perfectly into the roster with Jack and Dylan. Some great info on Lundell via Devils SBNation page (blame google).

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2020/4/3/21199181/anton-lundell-2020-nhl-draft-prospect-profile-potentially-elite-all-around-center-out-of-liiga-hifk

Highlights

Kournianos likes Lundell’s defensive game as many others do, but he’s also pretty high on his offensive game, citing his strength and decisiveness which allows him to back off defenders and push through contact, even in a league where he is one of the youngest players. 

Will scouch

Anton Lundell might not have a massive ceiling, but he could be a fantastic two-way centre who may not get fans out of their seats often, but he could be a person hockey nerds and coaches alike love. He pushes possession extremely well and should be a valuable NHLer for years, if not on boxes of cereal across the league.

 

Over at The Hockey Writers, Chris Faria pushes back on some of the assessments that question the ceiling for Lundell. This profile emphasizes his elite hockey sense and smarts as a player that puts him in the right spots on the ice to consistently make plays. 

 

 

 

I have increasingly heard NHL people saying third tier runs from 4 to 10 or 12, when I was previously focused on 8. Thanks for this.

41 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Redo the entire lottery I would think. 

Apparently they will take the four worst winning percentages from the west and the four from the east who are scheduled in the playoff round and give them each equal odds in the Lafreniere draw.

[freester]

Anton Lundell has been compared to Zemgus Girgensons who was drafted #14.  I would not be happy with that.

[DarthEbriate]

14 minutes ago, freester said:

Anton Lundell has been compared to Zemgus Girgensons who was drafted #14.  I would not be happy with that.

Me either. This team needs an offensive weapon (or one of the top two defensemen if they really really like Sanderson), like an X-wing. Not someone responsible who projects to a mid-six to bottom-six but-should-make-the-NHL safe pick. They maybe already have those guys in Asplund/Davidsson. You can coach up a lot of offensive players to be good defensively over time (or at least better). Eichel, Yzerman... even Satan learned to an extent. Maybe not Skinner? But you get the high-ceiling stuff you can't coach first.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Holtz is interesting. Raymond is interesting. hmmmmm 

Don't get off the Jarvis train transport just yet.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Don't get off the Jarvis train transport just yet.

So I should... stay on target?

 

[shrader]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So I should... stay on target?

 

Ummm... that doesn't end well.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, shrader said:

Ummm... that doesn't end well.

I mean... it does for Luke.

[Marvin]

42 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Me either. This team needs an offensive weapon (or one of the top two defensemen if they really really like Sanderson), like an X-wing. Not someone responsible who projects to a mid-six to bottom-six but-should-make-the-NHL safe pick. They maybe already have those guys in Asplund/Davidsson. You can coach up a lot of offensive players to be good defensively over time (or at least better). Eichel, Yzerman... even Satan learned to an extent. Maybe not Skinner? But you get the high-ceiling stuff you can't coach first.

If Lundell is the top idea for us at #8, I want that pick traded immediately.  Having said that:

When I have heard the Zemgus comparison to Lundell, it was with the caveat, "what Zemgus Girgensons would have been had the Sabres not rushed him" -- a middle-6 Centre.

[LGR4GM]

57 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Don't get off the Jarvis train transport just yet.

I think I know why I gravitate more towards Jarvis than Holtz or even Raymond sometimes. Holtz if you watch spends a lot of time sliding in between players and getting open, which is really good. He has a knack for avoiding the congestion to be available or to slip a pass to someone. Jarvis can do the same but I see Jarvis in traffic making plays more. I think that is my concern with Holtz. I don't see a lot of him in traffic, guy on top of him, making a play. That is partly due to him playing against men versus other kids like Jarvis but my preference is to draft players that thrive in those areas where there is contact. It's what makes Cozens someone fun to watch, he goes to the congested area and usually does well. 

I will note that Holtz has better skating than I thought originally. He is agile he just doesn't use that as much as others. His wheels are always turning too. Generally I like him but again I am just naturally drawn to some other prospects so take that as you will. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I think I know why I gravitate more towards Jarvis than Holtz or even Raymond sometimes. Holtz if you watch spends a lot of time sliding in between players and getting open, which is really good. He has a knack for avoiding the congestion to be available or to slip a pass to someone. Jarvis can do the same but I see Jarvis in traffic making plays more. I think that is my concern with Holtz. I don't see a lot of him in traffic, guy on top of him, making a play. That is partly due to him playing against men versus other kids like Jarvis but my preference is to draft players that thrive in those areas where there is contact. It's what makes Cozens someone fun to watch, he goes to the congested area and usually does well. 

I will note that Holtz has better skating than I thought originally. He is agile he just doesn't use that as much as others. His wheels are always turning too. Generally I like him but again I am just naturally drawn to some other prospects so take that as you will. 

Do you think we would try and move up (maybe get one of Sen's picks)?

Also, I've seen where some people suggest the Devil's might go with a Dman but I've read that Hischier signed with the Swedish military for 3yrs. I would think that would lead them to draft another forward.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Do you think we would try and move up (maybe get one of Sen's picks)?

Also, I've seen where some people suggest the Devil's might go with a Dman but I've read that Hischier signed with the Swedish military for 3yrs. I would think that would lead them to draft another forward.

Heard nothing about that. He has the typical military requirements that he is currently working on because... might as well. In addition he isn't Swedish but Swiss. They have a lot of centers and a bigger forward makes sense to them or a scoring winger. Hischier and Hughes are really puck distributors from what I remember(?). 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29339560/new-jersey-devils-nico-hischier-spending-nhl-offseason-swiss-army

Edited June 29, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Heard nothing about that. He has the typical military requirements that he is currently working on because... might as well. In addition he isn't Swedish but Swiss. They have a lot of centers and a bigger forward makes sense to them or a scoring winger. Hischier and Hughes are really puck distributors from what I remember(?). 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29339560/new-jersey-devils-nico-hischier-spending-nhl-offseason-swiss-army

 

As for the Devils, depending on if they earn another 2 1st rounders this year, I can see NJ taking G Yaroslav Askarov at 7 overall, given that they can have as an example, picks 10 and 17 and NJ can take more forward help there and snag the top goalie. Unless NJ really believes in Blackwood, but to me Blackwood isn't anywhere near the caliber of Askarov

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

29 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Heard nothing about that. He has the typical military requirements that he is currently working on because... might as well. In addition he isn't Swedish but Swiss. They have a lot of centers and a bigger forward makes sense to them or a scoring winger. Hischier and Hughes are really puck distributors from what I remember(?). 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29339560/new-jersey-devils-nico-hischier-spending-nhl-offseason-swiss-army

Thanks for the link. I wasn't sure about the source I saw anyway. And thanks also for correcting me on the Swedish/Swiss thing, my bad.

You didn't answer the other part about moving up maybe to one of Sen's picks (or others), any thoughts?

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

If Lundell is the top idea for us at #8, I want that pick traded immediately.  Having said that:

When I have heard the Zemgus comparison to Lundell, it was with the caveat, "what Zemgus Girgensons would have been had the Sabres not rushed him" -- a middle-6 Centre.

Maybe Girgs was rushed like Mitts and Tage. But even if Zemgus was given more time at the lower levels to develop odds are (my opinion) that the player he is today is the player he would be with the extra development period. Zemgus is a third or fourth line hard working gritty player without much finishing ability. The line and role he has on the line with Larsson and Okposo is a role that matches his talents. 

In my opinion the player who was hurt the most by rushing the development process was Mittelstadt. I'm hoping that the unwise way he was handled doesn't permanently damage his entry into the NHL. We should get a better reading of that in the next training camp.  

[shrader]

56 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Heard nothing about that. He has the typical military requirements that he is currently working on because... might as well. In addition he isn't Swedish but Swiss. They have a lot of centers and a bigger forward makes sense to them or a scoring winger. Hischier and Hughes are really puck distributors from what I remember(?). 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29339560/new-jersey-devils-nico-hischier-spending-nhl-offseason-swiss-army

Well that and he signed a 7 year extension with the Devils last October.

[LGR4GM]

42 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Thanks for the link. I wasn't sure about the source I saw anyway. And thanks also for correcting me on the Swedish/Swiss thing, my bad.

You didn't answer the other part about moving up maybe to one of Sen's picks (or others), any thoughts?

Oh, hmm... no. I don't know of a time in the last decade a team in the top 10 moved down. I'm sure there's one but the last time I remember something like that was when we traded up for Myers? It's really rare and I can't see ottawa going that route. 

[DarthEbriate]

4 hours ago, shrader said:

Ummm... that doesn't end well.

But Pops and Vander got to fly Y-wings. So it's all good.

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

... Jarvis can do the same but I see Jarvis in traffic making plays more. I think that is my concern with Holtz. I don't see a lot of him in traffic, guy on top of him, making a play. That is partly due to him playing against men versus other kids like Jarvis but my preference is to draft players that thrive in those areas where there is contact. It's what makes Cozens someone fun to watch, he goes to the congested area and usually does well. 

I will note that Holtz has better skating than I thought originally. He is agile he just doesn't use that as much as others. His wheels are always turning too. Generally I like him but again I am just naturally drawn to some other prospects so take that as you will. 

Perhaps Holtz will have that pace/aggression and presence in him as he ages and grows. But if the inclination isn't there now (whether successful or not), I'm not sure he'll ever have that gumption to get into the traffic. Of course, it could just be stern coaching of --- not yet, don't push it this year, you're still learning.

Now... if he has the hockey IQ to just always happens to magically be in the right spot for a rebound (like all those annoying players who score against us, or a... Drury comes to mind, for us) or pass reception for his lethal shot....

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

But Pops and Vander got to fly Y-wings. So it's all good.

Perhaps Holtz will have that pace/aggression and presence in him as he ages and grows. But if the inclination isn't there now (whether successful or not), I'm not sure he'll ever have that gumption to get into the traffic. Of course, it could just be stern coaching of --- not yet, don't push it this year, you're still learning.

Now... if he has the hockey IQ to just always happens to magically be in the right spot for a rebound (like all those annoying players who score against us, or a... Drury comes to mind, for us) or pass reception for his lethal shot....

I think he plays with pace just and he doesn't shy away from contact, it is just you don't get a ton of him in the high traffic areas. I wonder if that is because his shot is so good he can hangout away from the slot. 

[Weave]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think he plays with pace just and he doesn't shy away from contact, it is just you don't get a ton of him in the high traffic areas. I wonder if that is because his shot is so good he can hangout away from the slot. 

If accurate, That’s a trait will need to be relearned.  NHL goalies are too good and too big for a player to succeed consistently outside of the danger areas.

[Thorner]

On 6/28/2020 at 10:55 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

After the top 3, any of the next 5-8 players Could go in any order depending on the team.  My guess is that the draft boards all have these guys scored nearly identically down to Lundell and the goalie.  All we need for one of Raymond or Rossi or Perfetti to drop to us is 2 teams ahead of us drafting a defensemen. That’s it.  This is a likely occurrence.  Now if someone loves the goaltender, then we’ll have a choice of two of those players.

I can also see a team or two say in 9-12 position offering us to move up to grab Sanderson if available.  

Yep, or Holtz going ahead, like this mock:

https://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2020/

[Thorner]

On 6/28/2020 at 11:38 AM, JohnC said:

I'm not adverse to considering Mitts or even Cozens as a 2C if another goal scoring second line winger can be brought in to boost the line. The price would certainly be less than in a deal for a second line center, and there would be more players to choose from the market. I'm aware that most commentators here don't want to take that course because they are afraid that Mitts and Cozens are not ready and could possibly regress in their development. I'm not as afraid on that issue. A line with either Cozens or Mitts along with Olofsson, Cozens if not the center and a goal scoring sniper brought in from a deal is an approach that I am open to. There are a number of options to consider that although not necessarily the best options are still good options that will upgrade the roster   

I wish I could also be excited about a potential Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Cozens line 2 but..

I can't. Not when the most proven, not even top 6 - but just most proven NHL even strength player in that 3 is Olofsson, who isn't a very good ES player at this time. Even if you are stipulating that that a sniper addition is a part of that (unclear whether or not your wording means it's a necessity), we'd be looking at:

x - Mittelstadt - Cozens, - where we have a potential non-nhler in the second most important forward spot on a team, and a rookie to his right, or

Olofsson - Cozens - x, - which I suppose is the more hypothetically viable of the 2, but we'd be COUNTING on an excellent rookie season from Dylan even if the winger was a really good one, and to me I don't see that as an acceptable strategy considering the experience this organization has with what lack of C depth means. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[freester]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I wish I could also be excited about a potential Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Cozens line 2 but..

I can't. Not when the most proven, not even top 6 - but just most proven NHL even strength player in that 3 is Olofsson, who isn't a very good ES player at this time. 

If Mitts is on your 2nd line next year, you’re back in the lottery and Jack is demanding a trade out of Buffalo. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I wish I could also be excited about a potential Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Cozens line 2 but..

I can't. 

The bigger issue with these three players isn't so much with them playing together as it is whether individually they are good enough to contribute spread out among the lines. If two out of the three or four players (including Tage) demonstrate that they are worthy of their NHL roles, whatever it is, then that in itself will provide a team boost and allow for more cap flexibility to bring in a couple of good players. 

Last year I didn't expect Olofsson to be such a scoring factor. He made a leap from the previous year. Can Kahun or Joki do the same? Or maybe Mitts? Much is riding on the internal improvement of the young players already on the roster. As it stands I believe the most important young player that this team is counting on to elevate his game is Ullmark. With consistent goaltending this team is much more competitive. 

[Thorner]

If someone told me we were not making any C additions this off season, and we are shoehorning Cozens into the 2C necessarily by team choice, to me it has to read:

Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun

Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart

Reinhart absolutely needs to be displaced from Jack's hip to give Dylan the best chance. If it was up to me, in this scenario, I'm cutting my losses and running:

Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun

Skinner - Larsson - Reinhart

..sheltering Cozens (maybe even let him right shotgun with Jack in place of Kahun, if he earns it), protecting the future interests of the franchise, while hoping Skinner and Reinhart can provide a semblance of secondary scoring without a true 2C (but, with at least a strong defensive one).