The new Core

[Drag0nDan]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

He's another one of those, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" players.  There's no reason to move him.  He improves other players.  He's got a good head for hockey and makes a lot of very good plays that go unnoticed unless you really look for them.  Now, if he demands a salary out of line with his contributions, then maybe you move him.  2nd in goals and points, 3rd in assists.  He's not someone who is easily replaced.

He's going to ask for something in the 7-8 range if you want to lock him up for more than like 3-4 years.  If that's the case you'd have to at least consider it right?  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I think the new core is the same as the old core.

Jack, Rasmus, Skinny, Samson.  I think that's it, for now.

[nucci]

14 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I think the team is fine, add another goalie, fix the PP, get Skinner going and hope the prospects pan out, draft well, and go! 

 

This is already a good team. We literally had a goalie last season that couldn’t track the puck. 

No, it's not

[Drag0nDan]

22 minutes ago, nucci said:

No, it's not

Agreed - the lack of depth scoring was and is still a problem.  

[DarthEbriate]

The besten way toosa good team is through en da Newww Core.

A new GM (Kheevyn) means 2 seasons to get his players in. I'm saying 2 instead of 3 years because there are so few folks on contract this season. He really can flip 1/3 of the roster if he wants. Kheevyn needs to determine which RFAs to keep, or trade, or hope to receive an overpayment offer on (doubtful, because of looming cap reduction). He doesn't dare let Reinhart or Olofsson get to arbitration though if he believes they're a part of the core.

The question is: what kind of team does he want? Blue collar? So... grittier and heavier checking and fewer undersized defensemen who are labelled "puck movers"?

The new core is probably Eichel, Dahlin, Cozens, and UPL. And Skinner by default. But 2 seasons for a new team to take shape because of the churn of yet another GM's players.

[bob_sauve28]

56 minutes ago, nucci said:

No, it's not

I sure hope Kevyn Adams doesn’t agree with you. I hope he sees that this team was basically without a goaltender for as much as 40% of its games and played real well when Linus was playing and healthy. 

[NAF]

14 hours ago, Curt said:

I don’t think that he will.  What about $6.5M?

I doubt he sign for that little. He has a ton of bargaining power.

[mjd1001]

19 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Adams has hinted at icing a team that's more in line with the community. As Matt Barnaby said in his podcast, Buffalo's a "blue collar town." Probably not anymore, but the perception is there. And I don't care if you're a blue collar town or not, a huge percentage of the fans want to see fights, hits, hustle, grit, wallpaper, dirt and elbow grease — whether it contributes to winning or not. My opinion is that at this point in team history, it's more about filling the seats than anything else.

(I meant sandpaper, but I'll leave wallpaper as clear evidence of my cognitive decline.)

I don't disagree with what you are saying..but a couple of points:

-Fighting itself is just about gone. In 2001-2002 we had over 800 fights in the NHL season.  Every season through about 2010 had about 700 fights in it. Over the next 5 years that dropped to about 400 fights per season..then to the 300s...and the last full seas we had...just over 200 total for the entire year. That is less than 1 total fight for every 5 games played.  If you look at the Sabres current stats...they have taken a total of 3 major penalties the entire season.

As far as the blue collar thing....maybe its true in Buffalo but I find it funny how many other cities say that. I lived near Boston for quite a few years..and over and over they would talk about the Bruins as being a 'Blue collar team' to reflect the fact that Boston is a Blue collar city.   Listen to WFAN out of NY city through most of the 2000's and you'll hear the same thing about many of the NY teams and NY city.  If NY and Boston are "blue collar cities", then what does that make Buffalo?

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I sure hope Kevyn Adams doesn’t agree with you. I hope he sees that this team was basically without a goaltender for as much as 40% of its games and played real well when Linus was playing and healthy. 

As I have stated before, this team is something like 23rd in shot generation metrics. They more problems than just goaltending. 

[Curt]

15 minutes ago, NAF said:

I doubt he sign for that little. He has a ton of bargaining power.

I think that’s what his best comparables point towards.  Something in the 6.5-7 range on a long term (5+ years) deal.  What bargaining power does he have above that of any other RFA?

2 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

He's going to ask for something in the 7-8 range if you want to lock him up for more than like 3-4 years.  If that's the case you'd have to at least consider it right?  

Why do you think it will be so much?  $7-8M?

[NAF]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh god really? We're really going to do the Reinhart thing, again? 

Trading Reinhart is a stupid idea because you'll never get back what he is. You'll just create another hole. I love how olofsson is the greatest thing ever but Reinhart sucks. I need a break. 

Well I wouldn't be trading him for a bag of pucks... I think we could trade Reinhart and Mittelstadt for a 2C and a 2/3RW. We'd be creating depth by spreading Reinhart's value across the middle six.

[Drag0nDan]

19 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think that’s what his best comparables point towards.  Something in the 6.5-7 range on a long term (5+ years) deal.  What bargaining power does he have above that of any other RFA?

Why do you think it will be so much?  $7-8M?

Because he's giving up UFA years where he may get 8-9 on an open market in his prime.  So factoring that in on the average it tends to go up.  

Depends on the cap though - as i assume they'd do it as a function of cap. 

In any case, with Dahlin and Jokiharju coming up for raises, and being stuck with skinner and okposo's 15 mil combined, how much do you invest in keeping him?  Will he help you win a cup in the next couple of years?

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Because he's giving up UFA years where he may get 8-9 on an open market in his prime.  So factoring that in on the average it tends to go up.  

Depends on the cap though - as i assume they'd do it as a function of cap. 

In any case, with Dahlin and Jokiharju coming up for raises, and being stuck with skinner and okposo's 15 mil combined, how much do you invest in keeping him?  Will he help you win a cup in the next couple of years?

Yeah, I still think it’s high when compared to other RFA’s coming off of a bridge deal.  It’s been heavily discussed in the Reinhart thread.

Especially considering that the cap will most likely stay flat for 2-3 years, maybe even going down a little, it’s especially doubtful that Reinhart is going to get over 7.  I think that’s about the max he will cost on a long term deal.

[bob_sauve28]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

As I have stated before, this team is something like 23rd in shot generation metrics. They more problems than just goaltending. 

I’m not saying they are a Stanley Cup contender with only better goaltending, but it is the biggest problem on this team now if they want to be a playoff contender. Yes, more scoring up front will be required, but if you can’t stop the puck, it won’t matter if you add Leon Draiseitle to the line up, they’d still lose 

[DarthEbriate]

(Mods - please move us to the Reinhart thread if we're going too far into minutiae). If Reinhart isn't part of the core, and some team offer sheets him to $7.5M (which... maybe some GM does to test/strain that wacky Sabres organization? Doesn't seem likely any GM will use an offer sheet given the cap concerns). But, do you take a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Reinhart knowing you've then got yet another top-6 hole to fill?

Edit note: And what's the price/cost at which you match an offer vs. let him go? Adams needs to know that number if Reinhart isn't his "type" or part of the core.

Edited June 23, 2020 by DarthEbriate

[spndnchz]

7 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

(Mods - please move us to the Reinhart thread if we're going too far into minutiae). If Reinhart isn't part of the core, and some team offer sheets him to $7.5M (which... maybe some GM does to test/strain that wacky Sabres organization? Doesn't seem likely any GM will use an offer sheet given the cap concerns). But, do you take a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Reinhart knowing you've then got yet another top-6 hole to fill?

You're fine.

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, I still think it’s high when compared to other RFA’s coming off of a bridge deal.  It’s been heavily discussed in the Reinhart thread.

Especially considering that the cap will most likely stay flat for 2-3 years, maybe even going down a little, it’s especially doubtful that Reinhart is going to get over 7.  I think that’s about the max he will cost on a long term deal.

This is a good point.

[PalmTreeMafia]

16 hours ago, Weave said:

I hate that you can't see a user's name history anymore.

 

2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

So, I checked your profile, as did many others ... who in the blazes are you?

And, the Sabres need a lot.  Cozens I think will be a keeper, probably will become a good NHL winger, possibly first line, second line on a good Sabre team.

 

Apologies for the secrecy! I was known as Marchand's Nose in my former life during the pre-pandemic era.

 

I'm looking through the extended Sabres roster, including the prospects with any real NHL potential. Here's what I have:

G : Hutton, Ullmark, Luukkonen, Johansson, Portillo

LD : Dahlin, McCabe, Johnson, Samuelsson

RD : Jokiharju, Ristolainen, Montour, Miller, Borgen, Laaksonen

LW : Skinner, Olofsson, Johansson, Girgensons, Davidsson

C : Eichel, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Larsson, Asplund, Pekar

RW : Reinhart, Thompson, Okposo, Kahun, Lazar

 

I count 7 for my New Core: Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Skinner, Olofsson, Jokiharju, Cozens. Eichel and Dahlin, of course, are the only 2 in my Super Core. When putting together this list, one thing I noticed is that the Sabres have a glaring need for quality veteran leadership. I think Okposo, Hutton, and Johansson are the only vets older than 27. This could be a big part of the team’s problem. We need guys who actually know how to win in the NHL. Guys with playoff experience would be nice!

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, ManyRasmusFewWins said:

Guys with playoff experience would be nice!

Simmonds and Frolik! JBot had it all figured out last year. ?

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

As I have stated before, this team is something like 23rd in shot generation metrics. They more problems than just goaltending. 

Adams, Krueger and the Pegulas are on the record as liking our young core and thinking we are closer than some might think.

It’s an open question as to whether guys like Ullmark, Risto, Montour, Mittelstadt and Reinhart are considered part of that core.

But it seems pretty clear that the plan is to augment the core - add talent, not tear things down. That’s why I think the only way a Reinhart gets moved is if the deal improves the team now, and also why these Eichel for quantity and futures deals that are being floated are pure fantasy.

I am really interested in seeing how much of a priority another goalie is to the new regime, but I strongly doubt it is ahead of adding more scoring.

Edited June 24, 2020 by dudacek

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, ManyRasmusFewWins said:

 

 

Apologies for the secrecy! I was known as Marchand's Nose in my former life during the pre-pandemic era.

 

I'm looking through the extended Sabres roster, including the prospects with any real NHL potential. Here's what I have:

G : Hutton, Ullmark, Luukkonen, Johansson, Portillo

LD : Dahlin, McCabe, Johnson, Samuelsson

RD : Jokiharju, Ristolainen, Montour, Miller, Borgen, Laaksonen

LW : Skinner, Olofsson, Johansson, Girgensons, Davidsson

C : Eichel, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Larsson, Asplund, Pekar

RW : Reinhart, Thompson, Okposo, Kahun, Lazar

 

I count 7 for my New Core: Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Skinner, Olofsson, Jokiharju, Cozens. Eichel and Dahlin, of course, are the only 2 in my Super Core. When putting together this list, one thing I noticed is that the Sabres have a glaring need for quality veteran leadership. I think Okposo, Hutton, and Johansson are the only vets older than 27. This could be a big part of the team’s problem. We need guys who actually know how to win in the NHL. Guys with playoff experience would be nice!

Is there a veteran player on the market who better fits the profile of what the Sabres are publicly calling for - proven vet who plays fast, can score and drive play - than Taylor Hall?

Hall says he wants term, even though he understands the pandemic is going to depress the AAV. The “good teams” will have to create cap space for him.

The Sabres have the cap space and I think they will definitely kick the tires, assuming he and Krueger have a good relationship.

 

[Doohicksie]

On 6/22/2020 at 9:15 PM, Andrew Amerk said:

Picture the Sabres in the playoffs. It’s a game 7, game is tied, 4 minutes left in the game. Puck goes into the corner. Do you trust Samson to go in and win that battle? 

Yes.

[sabremike]

On 6/22/2020 at 9:15 PM, NAF said:

I think Adams should seriously consider trading Reinhart. While I wouldn't be actively shopping him, I don't think he belongs in the "core/untouchable" category. He's a smart player and an excellent passer, but brutally slow, meh defensively, and weak on the puck. I think Eichel could do just as well (or negligibly worse) with a player like Alex Tuch or Josh Anderson on the wing -- that is, a cheaper, faster, stronger, goal scoring winger.

I just find it hard to justify paying a player like Reinhart the $7,500,000 he'll demand. That type of money (in my mind at least) is reserved for players who can drive scoring on a line by themselves.

Apparently the lesson about running good players out of town based on stupid narratives and the severe consequences that follow has not been learned.

[SwampD]

On 6/22/2020 at 10:15 PM, Andrew Amerk said:

Idk, I’m no longer convinced. He may be a 1st line player here due to lack of talent, but he may only be a 2nd liner on actual good teams. 

I like him, but I don’t see him as being a solid player if he was ever in the playoffs. 

Picture the Sabres in the playoffs. It’s a game 7, game is tied, 4 minutes left in the game. Puck goes into the corner. Do you trust Samson to go in and win that battle? 

Do you even watch the Sabres?

[nfreeman]

27 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Apparently the lesson about running good players out of town based on stupid narratives and the severe consequences that follow has not been learned.

Leaving aside the obnoxious tone here, what narrative are you referring to with Reino?

[sabremike]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Leaving aside the obnoxious tone here, what narrative are you referring to with Reino?

hEs NoT a LeGiT tOp SiX fOrWaRd AnD pArT oF tHe PrObLeM.

*****. The problem is that we have far too few good players like Sam and too many godawful useless players like Vesey. Get rid of the players who are garbage, not the precious few good ones we have.

And yes, this team has me in a mood where I don't suffer fools gladly right now.

Edited June 24, 2020 by sabremike