Elliot Friedman podcast on franchise upheaval

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, nucci said:

they do give us a lot of opportunities

Of course. But getting mad about everything diminishes the impact of getting mad about the things that are worth getting mad about.

[nucci]

29 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Of course. But getting mad about everything diminishes the impact of getting mad about the things that are worth getting mad about.

yep, true

[Kruppstahl]

18 hours ago, Curt said:

They seem like they are consciously trying to be more involved to be honest.

They are your classic, clueless, meddling sports owners, and they just doubled down on the entire process.

As I mentioned in another thread, it is still possible that these moves have been made in preparation of selling the team.  It's certainly possible, if not probable.  For now, I'm holding out hope that's how this plays out.

If they retain the franchise, you are now dealing with the Bills under an aging Ralph Wilson all over again.

It won't get better with this ownership group in place.

Well, unless they blindly luck into it.  It's happened before with this franchise!  So who knows.

 

[IKnowPhysics]

Friedman with more on Buffalo:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-breaking-major-nhl-awards-races/

 

Quote

1. There’s a lot to unpack with the Buffalo situation.

Let’s start with what I didn’t like about this. During the post-firing media availability, Terry and Kim Pegula indicated that Jason Botterill’s three-week old vote of confidence expired when the draft was moved.

“Too many differences of opinion,” Kim Pegula said.

“We felt we weren’t being heard,” Terry added.

Ignore your bosses at your own peril. But, this mass beheading (22 people, for now) affected people without security. People who breathed easier with the vote of confidence, taking it as a sign that they would be safe during an incredibly difficult time to find employment. Botterill had two years remaining on his contract. I believe the same goes for assistant GMs Randy Sexton and Steve Greeley. But, according to multiple sources, verbally agreed-to extensions for at least player development coach Krys Barch and AHL Rochester coach Chris Taylor (two years) were approved by Botterill, delayed by ownership, and will not be honoured. All of sudden, they are not employed, and if you are let go from a team, you can lose your health coverage (a bigger problem in the United States than Canada). I think that’s cruel and wrong.

One bit of good news: Buffalo’s head of hockey department IT, Kyle Kiebzak, was re-hired after initially being fired. His termination apparently was a mistake.

Why did this happen? When The Athletic’s Tim Graham did an in-depth piece on the Pegulas in April, someone sent me one of Kim’s quotes: “We fully admit we put trust in some of the wrong people and made decisions based on information that was given to us by them,” she told Graham. “It’s our fault. We put too much faith in certain people.”

The person who sent me that quote said that was a bad omen for her hockey staff — that word around the league was the Pegulas were disillusioned by the advice the NHL had given them on hiring, thought they were poor choices, and would go insular. The fact they did no search before giving the job to Kevyn Adams should not be a surprise with that context. When he went on a road trip late in the season, people started to wonder where this was going. He’s worked with them for years — they know him and trust him. Head coach Ralph Krueger has a huge hockey pedigree, but mainly outside of the NHL.

As an owner, you’re entitled to do as you wish. But they have to accept a good chunk of blame for the reason the Sabres have gone sideways. You can’t constantly be changing direction. Much of the amateur staff that was fired was hired in July 2017. I don’t see how two drafts — especially the most recent ones — truly give you a fair picture. A third-rounder from 2019, Erik Portillo, was just named USHL Goalie of the Year. Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see why you need to blow up that group.

Going back to their first GM, Darcy Regier, there’s been disagreement about influence over decision-making. Botterill, for example, is not crazy about term. Even before he took over there, he’d indicated that he thought term was more dangerous than salary. He wasn’t crazy about the Jack Eichel extension (which will turn out fine) or the Jeff Skinner one, but was overruled by ownership. In fact, I’ve heard from several sources that he pursued other free-agent forwards, offering high annual salaries but shorter terms. He lost those races, but felt they wouldn’t regret onerous ends to those contracts.

The other thing that happened in Buffalo was the Pegulas did a top-to-bottom review of their organization. It was, from what I understand, very in-depth. They went over everyone’s schedule. How many games did you see? Where did you go? There is word they considered some of those schedules “light.”

When the Pegulas/Adams talk about “efficiency,” this is one of the things they thought could be done a lot better. During their budget meetings, department heads were told to prepare multiple scenarios with different bottom lines. Botterill knew he was going to be asked to make painful decisions, and fought them.

Initially, I wondered if there was some roster/personnel issue that came up over the last three weeks, but now I don’t think so. I think it was this. I thought he’d get one more year, but stood in the way of these moves — and that was it.

Another exec said an agent told him he was having a conversation with Botterill about a Buffalo free agent minutes before the Sabres announced the firing.

From a hockey perspective, word is that Krueger’s been very positive about his group — backing the young core. The Sabres need a second-line centre and will continue their search to fill that hole. That can be easier said than done, but have cap flexibility pending free-agent decisions they need to make (Sam Reinhart would be the biggest). Other than that, word is they are looking for “experience with a positive mindset” to continue to push their young players in the proper direction.

That brings us to Eichel.

When the Pegulas say this is not a rebuild, I believe them, primarily because you can’t sell that to your captain at this time. Last summer, people were asking, “How long until Connor McDavid wants out of Edmonton?” Now that they’re winning, it’s not a concern, so it shows how things can change.

He and Krueger have an excellent relationship. But the Sabres have to be worried about that question: How long will Eichel’s patience last?

Over the next few weeks, I’d expect Adams to begin the process of rebuilding his department. It won’t be one for one, obviously, but they will need help. Two names that were immediately mentioned to me were Rick Dudley (Carolina) and Scott Luce (Vegas), both with lengthy Buffalo ties. No idea if they’d be interested, but the connections might appeal to everyone.

I wonder if Adam Mair, one of their development staff, will be asked about the Rochester job. He went behind the bench when Taylor went to Buffalo for a few weeks. I could also see Adams discussing development jobs with two ex-Sabres who’ve invested time locally — Matt Ellis and Brian Gionta.

Another source brought up 21-year-old forward Brett Murray. Drafted in 2016, Murray just played his first professional season at Rochester, notching 24 points in 55 games. The people who worked with him most are now gone. He’s a free agent, and you have to make a call. It sounds like a small thing, but these are the kinds of decisions where there’s got to be a proper process.

2. The Pegulas are getting hammered because of their finances. Let’s be honest — no one’s getting out of this unscathed, but there’s something deeper at play here. I’ve heard from multiple people that other teams are considering “slimming down” their operations. There are legit worries about what could happen by June 30, because that’s the day of the year that NHL contracts “end.”

We’ll see if these worries are unfounded, but I’ve also heard that there could be change to contract language. (Not for players, but for team employees.) There is talk about shorter terms and greater “force majeure” language, which allows for the breaking of a contract due to an “Act of God,” or, say, a pandemic. There’s also been discussion in the U.S. of making more employees “at will” — meaning they can be terminated at any time without explanation, as long as it is not an illegal firing. (This also allows employees to quit more easily, too.)

“They’re the first, but won’t be the last,” one agent said this week.

 

Sounds a bit like the front office was blowing through cash without much to show for it, was asked to tighten its belt and get better, and resisted.

[Trettioåtta]

I guess if the scouts had their feet up for half the season, you can get the same output with half the scouts working the full year

[Doohicksie]

On 6/17/2020 at 1:54 PM, IKnowPhysics said:

Botterill was acting as if he were continuing right up to the firing.

That's how firings work, you know.  You don't know you're getting fired until you're fired.

[Curt]

6 hours ago, Doohickie said:

That's how firings work, you know.  You don't know you're getting fired until you're fired.

Lol, I know right.  It’s not like they called on Friday afternoon and said “Hey Jason, just a heads up, but we plan of letting you go on Tuesday morning.  Its just not working out.  So you can come in on Monday/Tuesday, but don’t bother doing any real work.  Have a good weekend.”
 

No, you don’t get notice before hand.  You just keep working until they tell you that you are fired.  I can’t see how it’s surprising that Jason was working right before he was fired.

[carpandean]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Lol, I know right.  It’s not like they called on Friday afternoon and said “Hey Jason, just a heads up, but we plan of letting you go on Tuesday morning.  Its just not working out.  So you can come in on Monday/Tuesday, but don’t bother doing any real work.  Have a good weekend.”
 

No, you don’t get notice before hand.  You just keep working until they tell you that you are fired.  I can’t see how it’s surprising that Jason was working right before he was fired.

Yeah, and when you're told, Bruno and Hans are usually there to help you find your way out out the door ...

 

[Huckleberry]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

That's how firings work, you know.  You don't know you're getting fired until you're fired.

Usually some in the office know way before you do you are getting fired.   And I seen some people go and I knew mostly before they themselves did.

[Doohicksie]

4 hours ago, carpandean said:

Yeah, and when you're told, Bruno and Hans are usually there to help you find your way out out the door ...

 

I was laid off 4 times.  I never met Bruno and Hans.  Most times they laid me off and any severance I got was just that, severance.  One time though they gave me 6 weeks notice and I was still paid but had to actually come into the office.  I had another job lined up and left after three.

Layoffs though are a little different than firings; it's usually a corporate move and a lot of times your manager would like to keep you.

I have witnessed Bruno and Hans, but those weren't layoffs, they we firings for cause.  In the corporate world there is the occasional real estate company being run from someone's work desk.  They seize the computer for evidence.

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Usually some in the office know way before you do you are getting fired.   And I seen some people go and I knew mostly before they themselves did.

In this case, Adams probably knew.  And in the case I cited sometimes you see the signs of the desktop realtor (taking business phone calls for his side gig at his desk) so it's not entirely surprising. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Most firings (esp management) are done in this manner due to security reasons, such as keys and computer access to company info.

I gave my 2 weeks notice at a job and was escorted to an office where I had to surrender keys and badge, then I was told I could finish the day saying my goodbyes to co-workers. They paid me the full 2 weeks. My keys and badge allowed access to secured areas and computer clearance to certain things inaccessible to the common workers.

Edited June 20, 2020 by MakeSabresGrr8Again
Spelling

[LTS]

7 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Usually some in the office know way before you do you are getting fired.   And I seen some people go and I knew mostly before they themselves did.

I've been in situations where people outside the company know who is being let go and when before anyone inside does.  I've also been in situations where no one knew what was coming before it happened.

Inside my company I have been moved 3 times without ever having a clue it was coming.  I could, just as easily, have been let go.  Thankfully the people above me took the steps to talk internally to find a new location for me before it happened.  I have known others who were simply let go and then rehired (in a different role and department) the next day when they let everyone know they were let go.

These things come in all shapes and sizes and I don't think it's right to subscribe any single situation that can occur to this one.  Whatever happened, happened.  

That said, if you work for a team that has stories coming out about management in disarray and a team that continues to not succeed I am not sure why you would feel any level of job security.  Management has to say what they have to say. I've had to toe that line, it sucks. There's no joy in having to blatantly lie to your employees' faces about a situation, but the rules of the game are such that you are required to do so.  

 

[Kruppstahl]

16 hours ago, Doohickie said:

That's how firings work, you know.  You don't know you're getting fired until you're fired.

Except for the times when you do know you're getting fired and it's just a question of when.

Rex Ryan found himself in that situation with the Pegulas, to name one example.

 

 

[Kruppstahl]

Elliotte Friedman was also on The Instigators a couple of days ago, talking about all this as well.  

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/06-18-sportsnets-elliotte-friedman

[Huckleberry]

4 hours ago, LTS said:

I've been in situations where people outside the company know who is being let go and when before anyone inside does.  I've also been in situations where no one knew what was coming before it happened.

Inside my company I have been moved 3 times without ever having a clue it was coming.  I could, just as easily, have been let go.  Thankfully the people above me took the steps to talk internally to find a new location for me before it happened.  I have known others who were simply let go and then rehired (in a different role and department) the next day when they let everyone know they were let go.

These things come in all shapes and sizes and I don't think it's right to subscribe any single situation that can occur to this one.  Whatever happened, happened.  

That said, if you work for a team that has stories coming out about management in disarray and a team that continues to not succeed I am not sure why you would feel any level of job security.  Management has to say what they have to say. I've had to toe that line, it sucks. There's no joy in having to blatantly lie to your employees' faces about a situation, but the rules of the game are such that you are required to do so.  

 

Well I work for a company that has been bankrupt 2 times a year for the 12 years I worked there according to rumours.  

Most managers have not been able to stay there for longer than 3 years since I been there  and most been shorter.   I always been in good relations with the only two that been able to get close to retirement as managers.   

A year ago competition from dubai came in, the golden child of ground handling in aviation....   Dubai the next economic bubble.  6 months later our entire management + HR department left.   But no one from workforce that actually gets job done followed.   They tried to get us to follow them but everyone said same thing if this is the Titanic we all go down together, and ***** above us that left and betrayed us we are not going with them.

Covid-19 came and we are the only company that has to recruit, we had airlines begging us for help which we did at reasonable price.   We were shipping medical material from Helsinki to lissabon, basically all over Europe and why ?  Because we have our reputation and still proud people that want to uphold despite all the ***** we have to go through.

And our new management ?  well they are ***** happy to be finally be working with such excellent workforce, they been in the business for years and using their contacts.
Things can change fast, and mark my word this Covid-19 will ***** up global cheap contracts with huge discounts, the favours are over.

A lot of companies been working at a net loss for years in USA and Europe and saying we will make it up in the BRIC countries + Turkey.   But now find out that the losses they took are not worth it and that the BRIC economies won't keep them afloat.  Brazil / Russia / India / China + Turkey all have bad economies for years but been cheating ( with russia actually being best of all ).