The Tuesday Purge - June 16, 2020

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I just hope we apply analytics to drafting. 

Is there that kind of tracking, though, at the lower levels of hockey?

[OhMyDahlin]

16 hours ago, darksabre said:

I'm going to sum up my feelings on today with this:

Building a reasonably functional hockey team cannot be as difficult as the last two GMs made it seem.

I think Murray made it look pretty easy, I just don't think he had enough time.

The way he pulled in guys like O'Reilly and Kane, even Lehner, looked very easy...and in hindsight, he didn't give up as much as some think.


The drafting has been bad under every GM, which begs the question...HOW DOES KEVIN DEVINE STILL HAVE A JOB?!?!?

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Is there that kind of tracking, though, at the lower levels of hockey?

I am not thinking of tracking. I am thinking of cohort analysis both current and past players. Breaking down scoring more, so primary secondary, pp even strength etc.  Something more akin to what Canucks army was doing 2 years ago. SEAL adjusted scoring as well (Situation, Era, Age, League)

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/06/15/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-3-cody-glass/

 

Here is the breakdown. It explains all the charts and graphs. I understand about 80% of it I think but it is really useful. I wish I understood better how to do this on my own. I also wish I had the time haha

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/06/23/the-big-seal-reveal-adjusted-scoring-for-first-time-eligible-prospects/

Edited June 17, 2020 by LGR4GM

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am not thinking of tracking. I am thinking of cohort analysis both current and past players. Breaking down scoring more, so primary secondary, pp even strength etc.  Something more akin to what Canucks army was doing 2 years ago. SEAL adjusted scoring as well (Situation, Era, Age, League)

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/06/15/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-3-cody-glass/

That’s what I meant (if tracking has a specific meaning other than this, I don’t know it). I didn’t realize they kept such robust stats at lower levels. 

If analytics hadn’t been used in drafting by the Sabres To date, then I’m glad everyone is fired.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

That’s what I meant (if tracking has a specific meaning other than this, I don’t know it). I didn’t realize they kept such robust stats at lower levels. 

If analytics hadn’t been used in drafting by the Sabres To date, then I’m glad everyone is fired.

Oh, I thought you meant like tracking zone entries and exits, passing and shot stuff. Some of that does exist in some leagues but a lot of it has to be manually done. 

3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

That’s what I meant (if tracking has a specific meaning other than this, I don’t know it). I didn’t realize they kept such robust stats at lower levels. 

If analytics hadn’t been used in drafting by the Sabres To date, then I’m glad everyone is fired.

If you draft Ryan Johnson over the forwards available, you aren't doing analytics based drafting. Or if you are you overvalue defensive production compared to forwards. 

[Cascade Youth]

Does this make Adams = Pol Pot?

[LGR4GM]

 

[That Aud Smell]

Holy sh1t balls - that is just really something to behold. 

You also have to wonder about what this does for the franchise's reputation throughout the hockey world(s). In certain crowds, at least, the Sabres are apt to be a "no fly zone."

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Holy sh1t balls - that is just really something to behold. 

You also have to wonder about what this does for the franchise's reputation throughout the hockey world(s). In certain crowds, at least, the Sabres are apt to be a "no fly zone."

Adams inbox already overflowing with resumes, according to his stint on GR.

Im not the first to say it, but the NHL world is much smaller than the hockey world. The no-fly thing only applies to established people in comfortable positions. Anyone looking for an in, or a chance to climb the ladder, is right there, resume in hand.

[That Aud Smell]

So, no established people. That’s something?

[dudacek]

34 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

So, no established people. That’s something?

It might be if we’re trying to attract a Dudley.

Of course, the Pegulas don’t seem to be interested in the NHL old boys network any more, so it’s probably moot.

I expect the Sabres to hire two more people in senior roles to fill the Sexton/Greeley/Jankowski gap and address areas Adams sees as under-represented in the organization or lacking in himself.

I would be surprised if they aren’t people already in his or Krueger’s circle. I hope one can be what we all thought Craig Patrick was going to be for Lafontaine.

[Kruppstahl]

Black Tuesday is consistent with the Pegulas preparing to sell the team.

Will they?  I don't know.  My gut says "no" actually.  But I think if they were doing these things in preparation for a sale, it would come soon.  If nothing happens over the summer, I'll forget about this.

For now, it remains a very real possibility IMO.

It's also probably the best outcome Sabres fans can hope for at this point.

 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Kruppstahl said:

Black Tuesday is consistent with the Pegulas preparing to sell the team.

Will they?  I don't know.  My gut says "no" actually.  But I think if they were doing these things in preparation for a sale, it would come soon.  If nothing happens over the summer, I'll forget about this.

For now, it remains a very real possibility IMO.

It's also probably the best outcome Sabres fans can hope for at this point.

 

I think this is wishful thinking. 

[dudacek]

Speaking of Lafontaine, it sure is interesting to compare the reaction to his hiring to the reaction to Adams.

There is no way that Pat was any more qualified to run the Sabres hockey department than Kevyn is.

Star power and timing make a heckuva lot of difference.

[Weave]

Just now, dudacek said:

Speaking of Lafontaine, it sure is interesting to compare the reaction to his hiring to the reaction to Adams.

There is no way that Pat was any more qualified to run the Sabres hockey department than Kevyn is.

Star power and timing make a heckuva lot of difference.

Wasn’t he brought in as more of a team president though?  And had an assist from Patrick as well.  It sure seemed like a mentoring set up.  Not the same as the current situation.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

Wasn’t he brought in as more of a team president though?  And had an assist from Patrick as well.  It sure seemed like a mentoring set up.  Not the same as the current situation.

I would say Pat had (or at least thought he had) more authority than Kevyn.

Pat was going hire a “GM” to take care of the areas he was lacking and lean on a mentor, Patrick

Kevyn is expected to hire “people” to take care of the areas where he is lacking and lean on a mentor, Krueger.

They were both put in charge of redesigning and operating the hockey department. The set-up isn’t identical, but in practical terms they  are in the same position.

Edited June 18, 2020 by dudacek

[Kruppstahl]

12 minutes ago, Weave said:

Wasn’t he brought in as more of a team president though?  And had an assist from Patrick as well.  It sure seemed like a mentoring set up.  Not the same as the current situation.

No, it wasn't the same.  I really think he was there to function as hockey president.  The fact that that all blew up as it did is likely the main reason why Pegula said the other day that he "doesn't believe in" a hockey president approach.

I've long said we should have one, as we need a layer between Pegula and the GM.  We can't trust Pegula (or the 2 of them) to make any correct decisions, and you can't trust the GM on his own either.

The right guy in the president slot can try to keep things going down the middle of the road while not giving way to personal biases.

 

 

 

[Stoner]

44 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

Black Tuesday is consistent with the Pegulas preparing to sell the team.

Will they?  I don't know.  My gut says "no" actually.  But I think if they were doing these things in preparation for a sale, it would come soon.  If nothing happens over the summer, I'll forget about this.

For now, it remains a very real possibility IMO.

It's also probably the best outcome Sabres fans can hope for at this point.

Interesting. What if a prospective owner said, "I'll buy this Vibe, but replace the tires and brakes and clean the thing out first"? Or... if they're ready to hand off to the kids (I'm thinking the older ones, the younger ones are too young, I think), is this is a way of giving them a shot at making it work?

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Speaking of Lafontaine, it sure is interesting to compare the reaction to his hiring to the reaction to Adams.

There is no way that Pat was any more qualified to run the Sabres hockey department than Kevyn is.

Star power and timing make a heckuva lot of difference.

I guess I remember some excitement about Pat. It sure didn't translate to his first home game. I went in, all in a tizzy. There was an announcement of Pat's and Ted's return, but the response was nothing to write home about. I envisioned a roaring standing O, but it didn't happen.

 

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Speaking of Lafontaine, it sure is interesting to compare the reaction to his hiring to the reaction to Adams.

There is no way that Pat was any more qualified to run the Sabres hockey department than Kevyn is.

Star power and timing make a heckuva lot of difference.

LaFontaine falls purely under the "fool me once" side of the equation.

[SwampD]

On 6/18/2020 at 9:50 AM, LGR4GM said:

 

John’s article mentioned that the Pegulas had laid off 21 people in April, so that’s 42 so far.

Do we know those names and positions, as well, cuz that’s a lot of folk?

Edited June 19, 2020 by SwampD

[Kruppstahl]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

John’s article mentioned that the Pegulas had laid off 21 people in April, so that’s 42 so far.

Do we know those names and positions, as well, cuz that’s a lot of folk?

Not to make light of a man losing his job, but I did laugh out loud when I saw the name "Mark Ferner."

A classic Sabre name from the past.

 

 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Not to make light of a man losing his job, but I did laugh out loud when I saw the name "Mark Ferner."

A classic Sabre name from the past.

 

 

And Vanboxmeer.

[That Aud Smell]

On 6/16/2020 at 5:40 PM, SwampD said:

Until they fire Rip, nothing will change.

Paging @PASabreFan to the nearest blue and gold courtesy phone.

[SDS]

So, what was the ROI for the 14 scouts who were let go? 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Paging @PASabreFan to the nearest blue and gold courtesy phone.

This may be what we need to get this thing turned around!