Get to Know Kevyn Adams

[Taro T]

Just now, dudacek said:

Yzerman was an alternate governor and VP for three years in Detroit. Not sure what his exact duties were, but I don’t think he negotiated many contracts, ran many drafts, or negotiated many trades. He was neither an AGM, nor a scout, nor a coach, an agent, or department head.
 

Adams, also alternate governor and VP. It was only for a year, but he has been part of the hockey business and this organization for a decade. Not sure what his exact duties were. He has not been an AGM nor a scout. He has been a coach and an agent and a department head, as well as a business executive.

Gillis was an agent, a coach and a lawyer, who had never worked for an NHL team in any capacity other than player prior to being hired by the Canucks.

Though Yzerman wasn't negotiating the contracts, it was pretty widely known that he was very close to Holland and that Holland was grooming him for a FO role.  Pretty sure he was in the room an awful lot when Holland was actually "making the sausage."

There still was the question as to whether he could actually get the job done (& as somebody else pointed out, he had been GM for Team Canada, so he had some direct experience assembling a team) but he had about as good a schooling as could be had.

And Gillis' success as an agent gave him an understanding of what values 30+ GMs put on players.  The fact he hadn't hired a coach previously didn't mean he he'd end up hiring a Housley.

Saying either were coming in as cold as the other guys on your list would be like saying John Davidson had no reason whatsoever to be chosen as the Blues Team President when he was.  Yeah, he had no experience in that role but he was one of the most influential people in the game & had watched what others did for a long time.

All 3 have been successful in roles that just looking at on the surface they had no business being successful out of the gate.  But, dig a little deeper, & they were each well prepared.

And hopefully that 1 year as a VP combined with his connections in the game allow him to surprise us.  Not holding my breath, but it could happen.

Just, it's against the odds.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Though Yzerman wasn't negotiating the contracts, it was pretty widely known that he was very close to Holland and that Holland was grooming him for a FO role.  Pretty sure he was in the room an awful lot when Holland was actually "making the sausage."

There still was the question as to whether he could actually get the job done (& as somebody else pointed out, he had been GM for Team Canada, so he had some direct experience assembling a team) but he had about as good a schooling as could be had.

And Gillis' success as an agent gave him an understanding of what values 30+ GMs put on players.  The fact he hadn't hired a coach previously didn't mean he he'd end up hiring a Housley.

Saying either were coming in as cold as the other guys on your list would be like saying John Davidson had no reason whatsoever to be chosen as the Blues Team President when he was.  Yeah, he had no experience in that role but he was one of the most influential people in the game & had watched what others did for a long time.

All 3 have been successful in roles that just looking at on the surface they had no business being successful out of the gate.  But, dig a little deeper, & they were each well prepared.

And hopefully that 1 year as a VP combined with his connections in the game allow him to surprise us.  Not holding my breath, but it could happen.

Just, it's against the odds.

Not arguing with any of this, or with your previous post. Just pointing out things that people may not know, or choose to ignore.

Adams has also been groomed and, I believe, actively preparing himself for this opportunity. Unfortunately there was no Kenny Holland to watch and learn from.

Edited June 18, 2020 by dudacek

[In The Buff]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Though Yzerman wasn't negotiating the contracts, it was pretty widely known that he was very close to Holland and that Holland was grooming him for a FO role.  Pretty sure he was in the room an awful lot when Holland was actually "making the sausage."

There still was the question as to whether he could actually get the job done (& as somebody else pointed out, he had been GM for Team Canada, so he had some direct experience assembling a team) but he had about as good a schooling as could be had.

And Gillis' success as an agent gave him an understanding of what values 30+ GMs put on players.  The fact he hadn't hired a coach previously didn't mean he he'd end up hiring a Housley.

Saying either were coming in as cold as the other guys on your list would be like saying John Davidson had no reason whatsoever to be chosen as the Blues Team President when he was.  Yeah, he had no experience in that role but he was one of the most influential people in the game & had watched what others did for a long time.

All 3 have been successful in roles that just looking at on the surface they had no business being successful out of the gate.  But, dig a little deeper, & they were each well prepared.

And hopefully that 1 year as a VP combined with his connections in the game allow him to surprise us.  Not holding my breath, but it could happen.

Just, it's against the odds.

I'd honestly feel more comfortable if we had Yzerman or Davidson or Gillis taking over. Kevyn Adams? A guy who can't even get the spelling of his 1st name right? Idk man haha.

But like others have stated, i don't think we're that far away from being a playoff caliber team as it is. We don't need the best GM in the world, all we need is a competent one & we're a playoff caliber team. Maybe Kevyn is that guy, i certainly hope so. We'll know more once we see what he does. Sticks crossed i guess

[Two or less]

3 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

I'd honestly feel more comfortable if we had Yzerman or Davidson or Gillis taking over. Kevyn Adams? A guy who can't even get the spelling of his 1st name right? Idk man haha.

But like others have stated, i don't think we're that far away from being a playoff caliber team as it is. We don't need the best GM in the world, all we need is a competent one & we're a playoff caliber team. Maybe Kevyn is that guy, i certainly hope so. We'll know more once we see what he does. Sticks crossed i guess

Same. But who was thinking we didn't hit the jackpot when we hired Jason Botterill? We were all very comfortable three summers ago.

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

[v]I'd honestly feel more comfortable if we had Yzerman or Davidson or Gillis taking over. [/b]Kevyn Adams? A guy who can't even get the spelling of his 1st name right? Idk man haha.

But like others have stated, i don't think we're that far away from being a playoff caliber team as it is. We don't need the best GM in the world, all we need is a competent one & we're a playoff caliber team. Maybe Kevyn is that guy, i certainly hope so. We'll know more once we see what he does. Sticks crossed i guess

To the bolded: absolutely.

But, all we can do is hope that somehow this obviously wrong hire ends up working out like a Costanza intentional wrong choice works out.  And if he gets good people around him, it could.  For cryin' out loud: Don Waddell has assembled enough good people around him that even HE looks not just competent, but good.  We know that is not the case; pretty sure the man can't walk & use a cellphone without stepping in front of a bus, but he has the Candy Canes relevant.  Adams at least has always come across as intelligent.

[sabremike]

This is the important thing that is very troubling: There is absolutely no chance in hell that Adams would've even been bought in for a interview for any other GM position in the entire league. This is the most ludicrous GM hire since Garth Snow went from Isles backup goalie to team GM. The fact the Pegulas made yet ANOTHER insanely high risk hire shows they have learned absolutely nothing.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, sabremike said:

This is the important thing that is very troubling: There is absolutely no chance in hell that Adams would've even been bought in for a interview for any other GM position in the entire league. This is the most ludicrous GM hire since Garth Snow went from Isles backup goalie to team GM. The fact the Pegulas made yet ANOTHER insanely high risk hire shows they have learned absolutely nothing.

Pretty sure this is their first.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 hours ago, sabremike said:

This is the important thing that is very troubling: There is absolutely no chance in hell that Adams would've even been bought in for a interview for any other GM position in the entire league. This is the most ludicrous GM hire since Garth Snow went from Isles backup goalie to team GM. The fact the Pegulas made yet ANOTHER insanely high risk hire shows they have learned absolutely nothing.

What is all this based on?  How do you know that there is no chance in hell that KA would not have been hired as GM of any other team?  No chance in hell is pretty low probablility, but are you telling me that there's a chance?

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Pretty sure this is their first.

Correct.  All the others did not work out, but not one was very high risk, especially insanely high risk.

[Stoner]

Patty told Terry he couldn't take the GM job because he didn't have enough experience, then Terry offered him prez. Seems risky. How about hiring rookie GMs to try and lead the franchise out of tankdom? The Mrs. as team president? Some pal out of PSU club hockey to accompany Pat to Ottawa to interview Murray?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

20 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Patty told Terry he couldn't take the GM job because he didn't have enough experience, then Terry offered him prez. Seems risky. How about hiring rookie GMs to try and lead the franchise out of tankdom? The Mrs. as team president? Some pal out of PSU club hockey to accompany Pat to Ottawa to interview Murray?

Patty wanted to be and was going to be a figure head ... kind of like the Queen of Canada.  No risk in that, really.  The hiring of 2 highly regarded up and coming Assistant GMs with a ton of experience in that role?  Not too risky, really.  The owner becoming President after a scum bucket was forced out?  Well, a bit strange, maybe, but not unheard of.  Risky?  Not really.  The interview of Murray was a formality after everyone said that he was a good choice.  They could have sent Sabre Tooth, or you, or me along with Patty at that point.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Patty told Terry he couldn't take the GM job because he didn't have enough experience, then Terry offered him prez. Seems risky. How about hiring rookie GMs to try and lead the franchise out of tankdom? The Mrs. as team president? Some pal out of PSU club hockey to accompany Pat to Ottawa to interview Murray?

You’re reaching.

Major hires have typically been touted or highly qualified assistants: Black, Murray, Botterill, Housley, Beane, McDemott
Or name guys: Ryan, Bylsma, Lafontaine, Nolan, Brandon, also offered a job to Babcock.

Krueger was unusual, but hardly “insanely high-risk” given his resume. Adams is the second “reach” of their tenure, after Kim, herself - and I’d call that more hubris than high-risk (she was already the boss and giving direction even without the title, she just wants to do more than just give orders) but semantics, we’re talking qualifications on paper.

Edited June 21, 2020 by dudacek

[kas23]

7 hours ago, sabremike said:

This is the important thing that is very troubling: There is absolutely no chance in hell that Adams would've even been bought in for a interview for any other GM position in the entire league. This is the most ludicrous GM hire since Garth Snow went from Isles backup goalie to team GM. The fact the Pegulas made yet ANOTHER insanely high risk hire shows they have learned absolutely nothing.

I think you and the Pegulas have very different views of what risk is. To us, risk is installing a person who will keep our losing ways intact. To the Pegulas, risk could be losing money from hockey operations or hiring someone who doesn’t readily allow them to meddle. If this is true, then the Pegulas hired someone that is very low risk. 

[Stoner]

Was tanking risky? And what about the original sin of this owner: not letting Darcy do his thing in 2011? Terry asked Darcy to submit a plan, this was even before the presser, Terry didn't like it and made Darcy re-think it. This led to the summer of 2011, when the Sabres went on a spending spree because, as Terry admitted later, "I wanted to do it." No way that was Darcy's doing, even with loosened financial restrictions. The resulting disappointment ended up in fans cheering for the Coyotes at MMA. And here we are. They are risky people. The very idea that they thought they could, as non-hockey and non-hockey business people, run an NHL team, was the biggest risk of all.

Edited June 21, 2020 by PASabreFan

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Was tanking risky? And what about the original sin of this owner: not letting Darcy do his thing in 2011? Terry asked Darcy to submit a plan, this was even before the presser, Terry didn't like it and made Darcy re-think it. This led to the summer of 2011, when the Sabres went on a spending spree because, as Terry admitted later, "I wanted to do it." No way that was Darcy's doing, even with loosened financial restrictions. The resulting disappointment ended up in fans cheering for the Coyotes at MMA. And here we are. They are risky people. The very idea that they thought they could, as non-hockey and non-hockey business people, run an NHL team, was the biggest risk of all.

This is different than “another insanely risky hire”

I’d say they make demonstrably “bad” decisions is a far more apt descriptor than “risky,” but I’m not going to argue your above point over what is moot nuance, and I’m certainly not going to re-litigate the tank.

[nfreeman]

50 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Was tanking risky? And what about the original sin of this owner: not letting Darcy do his thing in 2011? Terry asked Darcy to submit a plan, this was even before the presser, Terry didn't like it and made Darcy re-think it. This led to the summer of 2011, when the Sabres went on a spending spree because, as Terry admitted later, "I wanted to do it." No way that was Darcy's doing, even with loosened financial restrictions. The resulting disappointment ended up in fans cheering for the Coyotes at MMA. And here we are. They are risky people. The very idea that they thought they could, as non-hockey and non-hockey business people, run an NHL team, was the biggest risk of all.

Is the bolded anything other than pure speculation?  I don't think I've ever seen any support for these statements.

[Weave]

18 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Is the bolded anything other than pure speculation?  I don't think I've ever seen any support for these statements.

I remember the 2nd bolded as happening.  

[nfreeman]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

I remember the 2nd bolded as happening.  

I remember the spending spree occurring, and I remember TP voicing his support of it -- it's the crucial "it happened despite Darcy's wishes because TP wanted it" element of @PASabreFan's assertion that I don't remember any support for.

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I remember the spending spree occurring, and I remember TP voicing his support of it -- it's the crucial "it happened despite Darcy's wishes because TP wanted it" element of @PASabreFan's assertion that I don't remember any support for.

I distinctly remember Pegs saying it was his idea and admitting it was the wrong decision.

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, sabremike said:

This is the important thing that is very troubling: There is absolutely no chance in hell that Adams would've even been bought in for a interview for any other GM position in the entire league. This is the most ludicrous GM hire since Garth Snow went from Isles backup goalie to team GM. The fact the Pegulas made yet ANOTHER insanely high risk hire shows they have learned absolutely nothing.

The Pegula’s seem to make lots of curious decisions.   They feel burned by bringing in outsider experts and getting poor results and they don’t acknowledge or accept their role in the poor results.  They talk about loyalty but don’t seem to practice it. The talk about communication but they seem to be very bad at it themselves.  They don’t understand how they come off in the media, the Sabres honeymoon is long over. 
 

On the positive side the are smart, and driven, and basically just good people.  They are risk takers so they keep pushing reset until they strike gold (or oil, or gas, or .  He made a fortune fracking, which was and is a risky endeavor.  They are comfortable trading the risk of Adams’ inexperience for the comfort of knowing him.  
 

Clearly, the get involved too deep into the hockey side..  I don’t know how Beane and McDermott deal with that, but they have not found “hockey people” that they can work with yet.  Maybe RK and Adams are it?   

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Is the bolded anything other than pure speculation?  I don't think I've ever seen any support for these statements.

You've seen it, you've just forgotten.

I'll keep trying to find my original post about Terry's call to WGR (Instigators) when he suggested the other owners were upset about his free-spending ways (I think he said, "They're saying, 'who is this guy?') and admitted of the summer of 2011, "It was my decision/I wanted to do it." (As if Jessie's tweet about how much her dad liked Ehrhoff wasn't enough.) Finding the archive of The Instigators show is even less likely than finding the post. I remember that Terry called in unprompted while out on a drive with his dog Sidney. I was eating a raspberry filled paczki from Tops and drinking a hot green tea at the time.

The chatter about Darcy's plan being "too sublime" came from Terry's visit to the Buffalo News editorial board on his first day as owner. There's a link to the video, but when you click it, it asks you sign up for Buffalo Bills Blitz or something. For $2, I might try, but I suspect the video is gone. This is where the infamous comment on Darcy came from — "What did he do wrong?" Terry also blamed the News' coverage for being part of the reason for the "quit in the team" and said if they would write more supportive stuff, it would help the players. The editor or sports editor said that wasn't the paper's role, and Harrington explained that when the team is winning, pages and pages of positive content are created, player posters and such.

[Brawndo]

I can’t believe I’m suggesting this, but listen to Matt Barnaby’s Podcast this week His Guest is Mike Harrington, they talk about the Leino and Ehroff Signings amongst other things. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unfiltered-with-matthew-barnaby/id1457887585?i=1000478616478

[SwampD]

22 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I can’t believe I’m suggesting this, but listen to Matt Barnaby’s Podcast this week His Guest is Mike Harrington, they talk about the Leino and Ehroff Signings amongst other things. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unfiltered-with-matthew-barnaby/id1457887585?i=1000478616478

Paraphrasing - "If you meet three f****** a****** in a day, your the a******."

Gold!

[SwampD]

"Going lean?!?! They're going anorexic!"

[Stoner]

Darcy opposed the Leino and Ehrhoff signings and lost the argument to Terry and Kim?

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I can’t believe I’m suggesting this, but listen to Matt Barnaby’s Podcast this week His Guest is Mike Harrington, they talk about the Leino and Ehroff Signings amongst other things. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unfiltered-with-matthew-barnaby/id1457887585?i=1000478616478

This sounds like a train wreck that I will probably listen to.

 

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

You've seen it, you've just forgotten.

I'll keep trying to find my original post about Terry's call to WGR (Instigators) when he suggested the other owners were upset about his free-spending ways (I think he said, "They're saying, 'who is this guy?') and admitted of the summer of 2011, "It was my decision/I wanted to do it." (As if Jessie's tweet about how much her dad liked Ehrhoff wasn't enough.) Finding the archive of The Instigators show is even less likely than finding the post. I remember that Terry called in unprompted while out on a drive with his dog Sidney. I was eating a raspberry filled paczki from Tops and drinking a hot green tea at the time.

The chatter about Darcy's plan being "too sublime" came from Terry's visit to the Buffalo News editorial board on his first day as owner. There's a link to the video, but when you click it, it asks you sign up for Buffalo Bills Blitz or something. For $2, I might try, but I suspect the video is gone. This is where the infamous comment on Darcy came from — "What did he do wrong?" Terry also blamed the News' coverage for being part of the reason for the "quit in the team" and said if they would write more supportive stuff, it would help the players. The editor or sports editor said that wasn't the paper's role, and Harrington explained that when the team is winning, pages and pages of positive content are created, player posters and such.

Again:  the question is not whose decision it was, or whether TP wanted to do it -- the question is whether DR didn't want to sign those guys but TP made him do so.

I will need links for that, specifically, before I concede.  Otherwise it's spin and repetition.