Sabres Announce GM Jason Botterill has been Fired. Kevyn Adams Named GM

[darksabre]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

A bunch of posters did the work on hf a while ago, somewhere buried in the thousands of pages about ROR. They concluded that Botterill wanted to move him as early as a few weeks into the season. There is every indication including from people who purport to have insiders that Botterill just wanted Ryan gone. While its def possible that Terry felt the same way and imposed the deadline, ROR was doomed the second we hired jason and Jason added that offseason's abominable pile of crap, no matter who the owners were 

This squares with what we've heard about things like the Pegulas overriding Botterill on signing Jack to a shorter term deal. It would seem to be the case that Botterill simply didn't like O'Reilly's contract and decided that his "cap genius" move would be to save the Pegulas a bunch of money by getting rid of him. 

Clearly that didn't work. And his body of work since then only got worse. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

O’Reilly was on the trading block well before the “lost love“ speech. There was all kinds of talk at the deadline and even going back to the fall. I think it’s pretty clear that there was an organizational decision to flush Kane and O’Reilly (and probably Lehner) made in the wake of Botterill’s disastrous first season. How much of that was Botterill and how much was Pegula and how much they were united on the decision is an open question.

I don’t think there can be any doubt ownership imposed a bonus-related deadline. I also think that it is very clear Botterill botched the deadline.

We know the Blues deal was patched together last second after the Botterill failed to close an alternate deal with Armstrong a few days earlier. I suspect Botterill left a better deal With Armstrong on the table because Armstrong's need for/ability to fit ROR was lessened after he got Bozak in UFA. We also know Montreal and Carolina had serious offers out there. Were they better?

The deadline didn’t sneak up on Botterill. He had months to shop and pull the trigger. I suspect he overplayed his hand, similar to the way many think he overplayed his hand while shopping Kane.

All I got from my St Louis sources was Armstrong was done with Berglund and Sobotka and their combined salaries were essentially swapped with ROR.  They always considered ROR a #1 center, not a 2.   The Sabres wanted Thomas, not Thompson, but they had to “settle”.   Thomas was their top forward prospect at that time.  Plus St Louis insisted on protection if the number 1 was a Lottery pick.   Basically Armstrong won every aspect of the trade so maybe Bots was indeed under a time constraint.  
 

Looking at Botterill’s body of work it is hard to come up with many positives, despite his pedigree and his SC experience as an AGM.  He acquired a collection of 3rd and 4th line forwards, he overstocked the team at defense, the never did anything serious to address goaltending (acquired a career back up).  
 

His best move was drafting  Dahlin, a no brainer move.   Next was bringing in Skinner, which is probably negated by the contract he gave him.   I did like his work building up Rochester which I think is essential.  
 

It could be that RK becomes his best move.  Oddly, they did not seem to be on the same page either.  ?  

Edited June 21, 2020 by Pimlach

[Curt]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

A month prior to the deadline the “Insiders” were touting the July 1 bonus and saying how the price would be going up if the Sabres ended up paying it.

I think that was a Botterill leak planted in a clumsy attempt to disguise the fact he was working under a deadline and accelerate negotiations.

I don’t think you need to be an insider to figure out that that bonus payment might make a difference in the return.  That kind of seems like a no brainer.  It may or may not have been a leak from Botterill.

[kas23]

3 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Yeah but we got Tage Thompson so it's all good right?

Actually, in hindsight, it would’ve much better if we just got Tage Thompson. Instead, we also got some spare parts that killed our cap. It’s just unthinkable this trade actually happened. 

[Stoner]

I can't even keep track of where to put this meddling stuff anymore. But nfreeman made me hunt around the Interwebs, and I found an interview Terry did with The Instigators before the Dahlin draft. Terry said he waits until the draft work is almost done then he offers his input. Other than "he owns the team" and/or "other owners do it," is there any good justification for him offering input, whatever form that might take? He also said he pretty much lets Jason do his own thing, but when Jason wants to do something, "we talk and discuss the pros and cons." Again... WHY?

Maybe it's harmless and the hockey people just humor him. But with almost 10 years of hockey futility under our belts and Terry being the only constant (except Ripper, I guess), there's a pretty good case that can be made that Terry's. Just. Not. Helping. Things. And. Is. Likely. Hurting.

Edited June 21, 2020 by PASabreFan

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Curt said:

I don’t think you need to be an insider to figure out that that bonus payment might make a difference in the return.  That kind of seems like a no brainer.  It may or may not have been a leak from Botterill.

My memory is the reports were from Lebrun and were reported as “this is what GMs are being told” as opposed to “this is what I think might be happening given the fact the bonus exists” For what that’s worth.

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I can't even keep track of where to put this meddling stuff anymore. But nfreeman made me hunt around the Interwebs, and I found an interview Terry did with The Instigators before the Dahlin draft. Terry said he waits until the draft work is almost done then he offers his input. Other than "he owns the team" and/or "other owners do it," is there any good justification for him offering input, whatever form that might take? He also said he pretty much lets Jason do his own thing, but when Jason wants to do something, "we talk and discuss the pros and cons." Again... WHY?

Maybe it's harmless and the hockey people just humor him. But with almost 10 years of hockey futility under our belts and Terry being the only constant (except Ripper, I guess), there's a pretty good case that can be made that Terry's. Just. Not. Helping. Things. And. Is. Likely. Hurting.

If I was in Terry’s position, I would want to be informed of all the trade and draft dirt as it happens. That’s why I bought the team.

I would also be challenging my GM regularly:

”how are you going to fix 2C?”

”what is wrong with Hutton?”

”what are we going to do about Mittelstadt?”

”have you kicked the tires on Cirelli?”

”Explain to me why you want Montour and why he’s worth that much?”

I wouldn’t tell him how to do his job. But force him to explain his thought process, and hold him accountable for it? Hell, yeah.

Edited June 21, 2020 by dudacek

[Andrew Amerk]

5 hours ago, kas23 said:

Actually, in hindsight, it would’ve much better if we just got Tage Thompson. Instead, we also got some spare parts that killed our cap. It’s just unthinkable this trade actually happened. 

Killed “our” cap, or killed “their” cap?

I used to feel, as a fan, that I mattered. That it was “our” team. I felt like I was a part of it, especially when crowds were active at games. 
 

I haven’t felt that way in many years. 2007 was the last time, and maybe some moments in 2009. I feel like it’s “their” team, and not “ours.” Which is fine I guess, since they bought the team. The years of Me buying tickets and parking and all sorts of memorabilia and merchandise don’t matter. They’ve continually found ways to insult the fans of their/our team for no particular reason. 

[thewookie1]

If Botts was the reason behind the ROR trade and he'd been trying to trade him since early that prior season; I could easily see Terry telling him that you've had 6 months to make a trade and I'm not paying 7.5 mil to a guy who won't be here next year. I can honestly understand that sentiment especially if Botts didn't give a good explanation on how paying it would better the return specifically. If Botterill told the Pegulas they would get a better return but never gave them a specific reasoning/example I too would likely be a bit unconvinced. Plus, depending on the Pegulas level of actual hockey knowledge; the ROR deal looked good from a less savvy point of view. Your first assumption is that Berglund and Sobotka must be pretty good based on their contracts and you're getting a 1st and a prospect too for just one guy. If all Botts gave him was a more general "well we could get a better prospect" most people would balk at $7.5 million to "upgrade" a prospect. For all we know Terry actually liked ROR and was hoping to deter the trade.

 

One other quick comment on the whole thing is if the Pegulas hated ROR after his Tim Horton's incident why didn't we hear any rumors about it while GMTM was still here or even the months prior to Botts 1st season? The famous quote may have brought them to Botts side but it seems unlikely they'd tell Botts to trade ROR 2 weeks into the season for no apparent reason.

[Ripper]

21 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

If Botts was the reason behind the ROR trade  can honestly understand that sentiment especially if Botts didn't give a good explanation on how paying it would better the return specifically. If Botterill told the Pegulas they would get a better return but never gave them a specific reasoning/example I too would likely be a bit unconvinced. 

Yes, and TP admitted in his press conference that there were communication issues with JB.  

[Billznut]

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Killed “our” cap, or killed “their” cap?

I used to feel, as a fan, that I mattered. That it was “our” team. I felt like I was a part of it, especially when crowds were active at games. 
 

I haven’t felt that way in many years. 2007 was the last time, and maybe some moments in 2009. I feel like it’s “their” team, and not “ours.” Which is fine I guess, since they bought the team. The years of Me buying tickets and parking and all sorts of memorabilia and merchandise don’t matter. They’ve continually found ways to insult the fans of their/our team for no particular reason. 

This is where I’m at. I haven’t bought a ticket or any Sabres merchandise in over two years now and I will never regret that decision. Fortunately I’m also moving out of WNY this fall so I’ll never have to worry about tickets again and I have enough Sabres stuff to last a lifetime. No need for more. Sad how far this team and my enthusiasm for them has fallen the past decade. 

[Cascade Youth]

11 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Killed “our” cap, or killed “their” cap?

I used to feel, as a fan, that I mattered. That it was “our” team. I felt like I was a part of it, especially when crowds were active at games. 
 

I haven’t felt that way in many years. 2007 was the last time, and maybe some moments in 2009. I feel like it’s “their” team, and not “ours.” Which is fine I guess, since they bought the team. The years of Me buying tickets and parking and all sorts of memorabilia and merchandise don’t matter. They’ve continually found ways to insult the fans of their/our team for no particular reason. 

Excuse me, maybe you weren't paying attention when they explained it?  They see things that we, as fans, do not.  Ok?  Now shut up and open your wallet.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Cascade Youth

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 6/21/2020 at 9:43 AM, SwampD said:

I just need to know who was responsible for the O’Reilly trade. If that person is still in the organization then I really have no reason to have any kind of hope.

Terry Pegula still owns the team.  Nothing you can do about that.

[Stoner]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Terry Pegula still owns the team.  Nothing you can do about that.

True. Is there anything the league can do about it? It's just a question. I'm not saying the league can or should do anything about the ownership woes in Buffalo. But the savaging they are taking in the "press," from some of the biggest names in hockey media, gets my one eyebrow up. I feel like I'd be naive to think that the people who cover the team and the league itself are so separate that there couldn't be at least a bit of coordinated messaging here.

[GASabresIUFAN]

49 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

True. Is there anything the league can do about it? It's just a question. I'm not saying the league can or should do anything about the ownership woes in Buffalo. But the savaging they are taking in the "press," from some of the biggest names in hockey media, gets my one eyebrow up. I feel like I'd be naive to think that the people who cover the team and the league itself are so separate that there couldn't be at least a bit of coordinated messaging here.

Melnik is still the owner in Ott, so unless Pegula gets into real financial trouble, I doubt there is much the league can do.

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

True. Is there anything the league can do about it? It's just a question. I'm not saying the league can or should do anything about the ownership woes in Buffalo. But the savaging they are taking in the "press," from some of the biggest names in hockey media, gets my one eyebrow up. I feel like I'd be naive to think that the people who cover the team and the league itself are so separate that there couldn't be at least a bit of coordinated messaging here.

The “insiders” are tied to the league heirarchy, and the stuff you are hearing from the Lebrun’s of the world is definitely a reflection of the water cooler talk in the corridors of power.

The Pegulas have definitely put themselves on a bit of an Island and are creating an us-against-the-world mentality.

Which most Buffalo people wouldn’t actually mind if it wasn’t the Pegulas.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

True. Is there anything the league can do about it? It's just a question. I'm not saying the league can or should do anything about the ownership woes in Buffalo. But the savaging they are taking in the "press," from some of the biggest names in hockey media, gets my one eyebrow up. I feel like I'd be naive to think that the people who cover the team and the league itself are so separate that there couldn't be at least a bit of coordinated messaging here.

The NHL media, as well as the league itself,  has to wonder about the GM search that wasn't.  I saw one article, and I forget which team it was, were the team hires a GM from within but not until they did an extensive search that included external candidates. 

There are experienced hockey people out there that Pegula's did not talk too.  That will raise eyebrows because it looks like they are still so novice, even after 9 years.  They tried to hire up and coming GM talent twice and both times it did not work out.   They hired somebody they know, that is their prerogative.  They made it clear that they want upward communication and the want involvement.  They seem to want that first and foremost, even over winning. 

i have not seen an Organization chart but do you know who  RK actually reports to?    Is it Adams or do both Adams and RK report directly to Kim?  Who is in charge of Hockey Operations? 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Pimlach

[Sabres Fan in NS]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The NHL media, as well as the league itself,  has to wonder about the GM search that wasn't.  I saw one article, and I forget which team it was, were the team hires a GM from within but not until they did an extensive search that included external candidates. 

There are experienced hockey people out there that Pegula's did not talk too.  That will raise eyebrows because it looks like they are still so novice, even after 9 years.  They tried to hire up and coming GM talent twice and both times it did not work out.   They hired somebody they know, that is their prerogative.  They made it clear that they want upward communication and the want involvement.  They seem to want that first and foremost, even over winning. 

i have not seen an Organization chart but do you know who actually RK reports to?    Is it Adams or do both Adams and RK report directly to Kim?  Who is in charge of Hockey Operations? 

 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/team/staff

 

[LabattBlue]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I have not seen an Organization chart but do you know who  RK actually reports to?    Is it Adams or do both Adams and RK report directly to Kim?  Who is in charge of Hockey Operations? 

 

No org chart. Flat organization.  The GM, the zamboni driver, the housekeeper and Sabretooth all report to Kimmy, and they have have input on all hockey matters. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/team/staff

 

The link is a list of the Sabres organization but is does not show the lines of reporting.

We know that Adams works for Kim.  We know that RK said (several times) at the presser that he is the coach.   He never said much at all about an increased role for him, but that is what they talk about in the media.   The link does not answer the question as to who RK reports to. 

In the Executives ranks there is a GM (Adams) reporting to the VP(Kim).  Then there is a "Hockey Department", headed by a VP of Hockey Admin (Mike Jakubowski) which holds all the scouts.  Then there is a coaching Staff with RK listed as Head Coach.  Does Jakubowski and Krueger report to Adams? 

The Pegula's stated many times that they want a lean and flat organization.  Adams said the same thing.  I get the lean part, now explain the flat.  I guess I want to see it on paper in a convention Organization Chart that shows reporting structure.  

Pegula loves "good communication" so I want to know who is wired directly to Kim in the organizational structure, and who is wired to Adams. 

 

 

[Pimlach]

9 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

No org chart. Flat organization.  The GM, the zamboni driver, the housekeeper and Sabretooth all report to Kimmy, and they have have input on all hockey matters. 

I posted a reply before i saw this. i hope you are wrong. 

 

If this is true then expect more chaos like we had in the first years of Pegula regime when we had too many Execs (Black, LaFontaine, Murray and Batista) all moving in different directions. 

[kas23]

4 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/team/staff

 

I think the most amazing thing on here is that they have a team dentist. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, kas23 said:

I think the most amazing thing on here is that they have a team dentist. 

Every team does.  The Blues gave their Team Dentist a SC ring. 

[MattPie]

7 hours ago, kas23 said:

I think the most amazing thing on here is that they have a team dentist. 

 

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Every team does.  The Blues gave their Team Dentist a SC ring. 

I mean, this is hockey. It's not unusual to require emergency dental work. Do you want to be searching the Boston phonebook for a dentist after taking a puck to the face in the morning skate?

Actually, now I'm wondering if the dentist travels with the team or are they in the office/on call whenever there are players (home or opponents) in the building. So if a Bruin takes a puck to the face ol' Doc Croglio patches him up.

[Brawndo]

16 hours ago, MattPie said:

 

I mean, this is hockey. It's not unusual to require emergency dental work. Do you want to be searching the Boston phonebook for a dentist after taking a puck to the face in the morning skate?

Actually, now I'm wondering if the dentist travels with the team or are they in the office/on call whenever there are players (home or opponents) in the building. So if a Bruin takes a puck to the face ol' Doc Croglio patches him up.

Most team’s medical staff does not travel with the team during the regular season, that changes for the playoffs though, the home team is required to provide a dentist, and a team of physicians. The Sabres usually have an Emergency Medicine Physician, Orthopedic Doc and a Sports Medicine Doctor along with the Team Dentist in attendance at each home game. 

[Andrew Amerk]

On 6/22/2020 at 3:41 PM, LabattBlue said:

No org chart. Flat organization.  The GM, the zamboni driver, the housekeeper and Sabretooth all report to Kimmy, and they have have input on all hockey matters. 

I heard that the housekeeper was let go.