Thorner Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Haven’t read the thread yet so apologies if you want to skip this. Just my initial reaction, fwiw: My immediate reaction, after surprise, was being flabbergasted, verging on anger at the idea they hired a (a first time) GM without a thorough GM search. Then I realized I didn’t actually feel those things, I just thought those things, because in a vacuum these developments would be surprising, but deep down it was entirely appropriate to what my muscle memory knows of the Sabres. But really, I realized I didn’t actually feel those things because, I guess it turns out what I said before is true, now that’s it’s happened and I can know for sure: I really do think there’s no where to go but up. Just look at the standings in any of the last 3 years. I do not think it will be hard for even Kevyn Adams to match that. The Pegulas are exceptionally worrying. And that point stands without rebuttal. But another thing personally affirmed for me is my belief in the fact we have the one piece that you often “just can’t get”. Eichel IS a Hart level player and what that means is that the pieces we need to field a championship roster ARE attainable. We’ve played 2 years in a row without the 2nd most important position on a team sans goalie. We STILL may only be a piece away. Objective remains the same: acquire a 2C. They say it’s “darkest before dawn” but that’s not even really true, scientifically. Look anywhere online and the easy inference is we’re at our darkest, right now. Maybe, but that may not really be true, either. 3
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 @Thorny Are you sure? Edm Oilers records 2006–07 2006–07 82 32 43 - 7 71 195 248 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [38] 2007–08 2007–08 82 41 35 - 6 88 235 251 4th, Northwest Did not qualify [39] 2008–09 2008–09 82 38 35 - 9 85 234 248 4th, Northwest Did not qualify [40] 2009–10 2009–10 82 27 47 - 8 62 214 284 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [41] 2010–11 2010–11 82 25 45 - 12 62 193 269 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [42] 2011–12 2011–12 82 32 40 - 10 74 212 239 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [43] 2012–133 2012–13 48 19 22 - 7 45 125 134 3rd, Northwest Did not qualify [44] 2013–14 2013–14 82 29 44 - 9 67 203 270 7th, Pacific Did not qualify [45] 2014–15 2014–15 82 24 44 - 14 62 198 283 6th, Pacific Did not qualify [46] 2015–16 2015–16 82 31 43 - 8 70 203 245 7th, Pacific Did not qualify [47] 2016–17 2016–17 82 47 26 - 9 103 247 212 2nd, Pacific Won in First Round, 4–2 (Sharks) Lost in Second Round, 3–4 (Ducks) 2017–18 2017–18 82 36 40 - 6 78 234 263 6th, Pacific Did not qualify 2018–19 2018–19 82 35 38 - 9 79 232 274 7th, Pacific Did not qualify
nfreeman Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: @Thorny Are you sure? Edm Oilers records 2006–07 2006–07 82 32 43 - 7 71 195 248 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [38] 2007–08 2007–08 82 41 35 - 6 88 235 251 4th, Northwest Did not qualify [39] 2008–09 2008–09 82 38 35 - 9 85 234 248 4th, Northwest Did not qualify [40] 2009–10 2009–10 82 27 47 - 8 62 214 284 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [41] 2010–11 2010–11 82 25 45 - 12 62 193 269 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [42] 2011–12 2011–12 82 32 40 - 10 74 212 239 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [43] 2012–133 2012–13 48 19 22 - 7 45 125 134 3rd, Northwest Did not qualify [44] 2013–14 2013–14 82 29 44 - 9 67 203 270 7th, Pacific Did not qualify [45] 2014–15 2014–15 82 24 44 - 14 62 198 283 6th, Pacific Did not qualify [46] 2015–16 2015–16 82 31 43 - 8 70 203 245 7th, Pacific Did not qualify [47] 2016–17 2016–17 82 47 26 - 9 103 247 212 2nd, Pacific Won in First Round, 4–2 (Sharks) Lost in Second Round, 3–4 (Ducks) 2017–18 2017–18 82 36 40 - 6 78 234 263 6th, Pacific Did not qualify 2018–19 2018–19 82 35 38 - 9 79 232 274 7th, Pacific Did not qualify The two teams that most abased themselves in the you-know-what. Not a coincidence. 1
Thorner Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: @Thorny Are you sure? Edm Oilers records 2006–07 2006–07 82 32 43 - 7 71 195 248 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [38] 2007–08 2007–08 82 41 35 - 6 88 235 251 4th, Northwest Did not qualify [39] 2008–09 2008–09 82 38 35 - 9 85 234 248 4th, Northwest Did not qualify [40] 2009–10 2009–10 82 27 47 - 8 62 214 284 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [41] 2010–11 2010–11 82 25 45 - 12 62 193 269 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [42] 2011–12 2011–12 82 32 40 - 10 74 212 239 5th, Northwest Did not qualify [43] 2012–133 2012–13 48 19 22 - 7 45 125 134 3rd, Northwest Did not qualify [44] 2013–14 2013–14 82 29 44 - 9 67 203 270 7th, Pacific Did not qualify [45] 2014–15 2014–15 82 24 44 - 14 62 198 283 6th, Pacific Did not qualify [46] 2015–16 2015–16 82 31 43 - 8 70 203 245 7th, Pacific Did not qualify [47] 2016–17 2016–17 82 47 26 - 9 103 247 212 2nd, Pacific Won in First Round, 4–2 (Sharks) Lost in Second Round, 3–4 (Ducks) 2017–18 2017–18 82 36 40 - 6 78 234 263 6th, Pacific Did not qualify 2018–19 2018–19 82 35 38 - 9 79 232 274 7th, Pacific Did not qualify Yes I'm sure. Just focus on the McDavid years.
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Yes I'm sure. Just focus on the McDavid years. 4 no playoffs in his first 5 years, and then they hired Ken Holland. We hired Kevyn Adams. 1
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, SDS said: Not to be jerk, but I think you missed the entire message of the PC. You want to hear how they think they are going to win the Stanley Cup. That wasn’t their message. That is not what they wanted to tell us. And they didn’t. The direction, at least in the short term, is to reduce costs of this organization. They didn’t speak hockey. They talked financials the entire time. No I didn't miss the point. I'm saying it's a serious problem that's the point they conveyed instead of telling us anything about how we're going to stop being the dumbest nhl team. 2
Thorner Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: 4 no playoffs in his first 5 years, and then they hired Ken Holland. We hired Kevyn Adams. I'm not arguing that Adams is a good hire. Can you direct me to where I said that in my post? Look at their team point totals since McDavid and Eichel came into the league. They are better than us. Eichel isn't McDavid, but to be as bad as we've been, with Eichel (no better, indeed, than an MVP-Eichel-less Murray Sabres squad) is saying something. We're not the Jedi we should be. Again, look at the standings the last 3 years. I felt bad for Botterill the man when I heard the news today. I won't miss Botterill the MANager. I just won't. - - - Ahhh, feels a timeless Sabres tradition: We have now entered into the stage where we are debating another GM's performance after they after no longer the GM. Cheers, @GASabresIUFAN??
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Thorny said: I'm not arguing that Adams is a good hire. Can you direct me to where I said that in my post? Look at their team point totals since McDavid and Eichel came into the league. They are better than us. Eichel isn't McDavid, but to be as bad as we've been, with Eichel (no better, indeed, than an MVP-Eichel-less Murray Sabres squad) is saying something. We're not the Jedi we should be. Again, look at the standings the last 3 years. I felt bad for Botterill the man when I heard the news today. I won't miss Botterill the MANager. I just won't. - - - Ahhh, feels a timeless Sabres tradition: We have now entered into the stage where we are debating another GM's performance after they after no longer the GM. Cheers, @GASabresIUFAN?? They got McDavid and Leon, we got Eichel and Reinhart. No wonder they are better.
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thorny said: Haven’t read the thread yet so apologies if you want to skip this. Just my initial reaction, fwiw: My immediate reaction, after surprise, was being flabbergasted, verging on anger at the idea they hired a (a first time) GM without a thorough GM search. Then I realized I didn’t actually feel those things, I just thought those things, because in a vacuum these developments would be surprising, but deep down it was entirely appropriate to what my muscle memory knows of the Sabres. But really, I realized I didn’t actually feel those things because, I guess it turns out what I said before is true, now that’s it’s happened and I can know for sure: I really do think there’s no where to go but up. Just look at the standings in any of the last 3 years. I do not think it will be hard for even Kevyn Adams to match that. The Pegulas are exceptionally worrying. And that point stands without rebuttal. But another thing personally affirmed for me is my belief in the fact we have the one piece that you often “just can’t get”. Eichel IS a Hart level player and what that means is that the pieces we need to field a championship roster ARE attainable. This is me too. I know I should be reacting like GA to the hiring of Adams, but the fact is that I am emotionally numb to the fact that his resume is as weak as it is. All I can think about is how close we are to better shores and the absolute certainty Jason Botterill was never going to get us there. All I feel is relief that we might be able to start moving forward again. Adams doesn’t have to be good to be better than Jason, all he needs is the right gust of wind. Edited June 17, 2020 by dudacek 1 1
Thorner Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: They got McDavid and Leon, we got Eichel and Reinhart. No wonder they are better. But never forget...Eichel *is* Reinhart, Einhorn *is* Finkle.
nfreeman Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Tim Graham bringing the heat tonight in the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/1876956/2020/06/16/graham-pegulas-end-up-in-another-unwinnable-position-of-their-own-making/ Quote The Pegulas have a track record of entrusting personable fellows and later regretting it. Despite misgivings, they kept Bills president Russ Brandon and GM Doug Whaley because they all warmed up to each other while hunkered down in search of Doug Marrone’s successor. Rex Ryan charmed the Pegulas. All of them are gone. So, too, are Pat LaFontaine, Tim Murray, Ted Nolan, Ron Rolston, Dan Bylsma and Phil Housley. All those leadership missteps imply the Pegulas got lucky, especially since Whaley was part of the process, when hiring Bills coach Sean McDermott. McDermott begat Brandon Beane as general manager. That addition begat a front office loaded with respected talent evaluators such as assistant GM Joe Schoen, personnel adviser Brian Gaine, pro personnel director Malik Boyd, college scouting director Terrance Gray, player personnel director Dan Morgan, college scouting assistant director Lake Dawson and senior scout Dennis Hickey. Feedback indicates Krueger has made a similar impression with his players that McDermott made in Orchard Park; a healthy culture is being fostered in that regard. The Pegulas might be trying to replicate their NHL and NFL operations, leaning into the charismatic coach and then adding a complementary GM. A significant difference: Beane worked in football operations for eight years before Buffalo. He developed experience and connections as Carolina Panthers interim GM and from serving as top assistant to Marty Hurney and Dave Gettleman. Ten months ago, Adams was overseeing youth programs downtown. 3 1
Thorner Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, dudacek said: This is me too. I know I should be reacting like GA to the hiring of Adams, but the fact is that I am emotionally numb to the fact that his resume is as weak as it is. All I can think about is how close we are to better shores and the absolutely certainty Jason Botterill was never going to get us there. Adams doesn’t have to be good to be better than Jason, all he needs is the right gust of wind. Ayup. The Pegula's conducted a thorough search last time, were aided by the league itself, and we came away with....is he, at least arguably, at the time of fire, in possession of the worst Sabres GM resume, ever? I"ll admit myself, poignantly, hilariously, and somehow probably seriously intrigued by the "maybe we'll get it right by doing it wrong this time", fool's hope line of thinking. Like you said, we are going to need a break either way. Botterill seemed to me to be too often actively preventing them. Indeed, he never had as in a scenario where we were "one break away". With him, it was unfortunately always a multitude of best case scenarios being banked on. Edited June 17, 2020 by Thorny
Thorner Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Tim Graham bringing the heat tonight in the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/1876956/2020/06/16/graham-pegulas-end-up-in-another-unwinnable-position-of-their-own-making/ 2 things: 1 - at least now we'll draft some good ole canadian boys. kidding, not necessarily Canadian, but it'll be great to know ALL developmental leagues are open to each pick, and 2 - The bit you quoted makes me somewhat hopeful in the sense of the avalanche of good that one single hire caused.
shrader Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said: This may sound like a sarcastic question, but it’s not. If Tim and Kerry broke up tomorrow, would Kim still stay as President? Is she that qualified and good at what she’s doing? Or would the new gf become the new Prez? People really need to move past this crap. At this point, they’ve been married for 27 years and have three kids. That doesn’t exactly mesh well with the “current girlfriend” implication you’re throwing out there. You guys don’t like him, fine, but there’s no reason to get all personal like this. Stick to the hockey. 1
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 59 minutes ago, Thorny said: But never forget...Eichel *is* Reinhart, Einhorn *is* Finkle. I always thought Finkle was Scott Norwood, but I digress 1
Brawndo Posted June 17, 2020 Author Report Posted June 17, 2020 From Friedman 31 Thoughts Podcast, the Pegulas felt the hockey people they were recommended to them let them down and they are going in the opposite direction by hiring non NHL people. Gulp. Mentioned two candidates to round out the FO Dudley and Scott Luce.
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Graham’s piece is a spot-on fair reading of how the masses are reacting to today and why it is more than fair to suggest that while the team may have performed necessary surgery, we have no reason to believe the patient is going to get better.
SDS Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brawndo said: From Friedman 31 Thoughts Podcast, the Pegulas felt the hockey people they were recommended to them let them down and they are going in the opposite direction by hiring non NHL people. Gulp. Mentioned two candidates to round out the FO Dudley and Scott Luce. What does non-NHL people even mean?
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Graham’s piece is a spot-on fair reading of how the masses are reacting to today and why it is more than fair to suggest that while the team may have performed necessary surgery, we have no reason to believe the patient is going to get better. Especially when we hired a country GP to do brain surgery.
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SDS said: What does non-NHL people even mean? I’m hoping it means people without the Bettman stamp of approval. It better not mean hiring a baseball guy. Although that did work for the Chicago Bulls. Edited June 17, 2020 by dudacek
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Brawndo said: From Friedman 31 Thoughts Podcast, the Pegulas felt the hockey people they were recommended to them let them down and they are going in the opposite direction by hiring non NHL people. Gulp. Mentioned two candidates to round out the FO Dudley and Scott Luce. I mean the idea that the league sold them a bill of goods with Botterill is spot on. Dudley or someone like him would be an ideal add. Something tells me we should be looking hard at the Ralph Krueger tree.
SDS Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: I’m hoping it means people with the Bettman stamp of approval. It better not mean hiring a baseball guy. Although that did work for the Chicago Bulls. lol. Thanks. That makes sense now.
Randall Flagg Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 Don't blame the Pegulas for being disillusioned with the ***** sandwiches offered up the last two times they got help 2
Brawndo Posted June 17, 2020 Author Report Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, SDS said: What does non-NHL people even mean? Non traditional, no more hiring AGMs to be GM I guess. People they know well and trust like Adams. They gave too much leeway to GMTM and Botterill and got burned. Disagreement on contracts namely the term given to Eichel and Skinner, Botterill did not want to do either.
Thorner Posted June 17, 2020 Report Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Especially when we hired a country GP to do brain surgery. I think the patient needs another ear nail! 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: I’m hoping it means people with the Bettman stamp of approval. It better not mean hiring a baseball guy. Although that did work for the Chicago Bulls. And our coaching staff, in a sense? Edited June 17, 2020 by Thorny
Recommended Posts