GASabresIUFAN Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, Curt said: This is interesting. He seems like a manager as opposed to a talent evaluator. This would lead me to believe that he may lean heavily on the team of people around him when it comes to decision making on individual players. Like Kevin Devine? G-d help us. What has he managed? two hockey rinks and oversaw the management of the Jr Sabres. Wow! So impressed by his experience. What a joke. If you are going to manage a pro sports team, you need some sports team management experience. Steve Y at least built successful Canadian teams for Hockey Canada.
LGR4GM Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: We didn’t need an analytics guy to tell us this. We didn't anyone to tell us not to get Frolik so the real question is did Botterill do it alone or was Krueger the guy who wanted Frolik. Krueger has said he likes veterans... it is concerning.
DarthEbriate Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: He was an NHL player, a player development coach, and an NHL assistant coach. Yeah, I chose the wrong word with handled. All those items I attribute to coaching. But he's never managed contracts, scouting, trades, etc. I hope he has a great eye for talent and has the tools put in place to continue player development. It's the player acquisition that is scariest to me. As you and @LGR4GM state: pro personnel, analytics folks are much in need. I'd add a cap guru and while we're at it, let's get our scouting department in order.
jad1 Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Your are focusing on the wrong thing. The Sabres will not be able to do what the Bills did. There isn't eh free agency or the depth to the draft like the NFL has. The Sabres have to draft better or none it will matter. Trades are the rough NHL equivalent to NFL fee agency. A good NHL GM has to be proficient in the draft and trade market to be successful. Botterill's draft picks might turn out to be good NHL players, but his inability to build the roster through good trades is one of the reasons he failed as the Sabres GM. 1
Marvin Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 3 hours ago, freester said: I heard Botteril wanted to sign Wayne Simmonds to 5 year 25 million and Pegulas balked. You might have hit on something. Can you imagine the Pegula's reaction to being asked to draw up longish-term, high-ish money contracts for, as a worst-case scenario, Simmonds, Frolik, and Sobotka?
Marvin Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 3 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: Or just a few weeks ago when Kim told everyone he wasn't going anywhere? This really makes the Sabres & Kim look like they are running a very well run organization........... Did he say All Lives Matter or the 'N' Word recently? Or did they really not want to sign Laaksonen/Really liked Pilut? The Pilut problem may have set them off. The timing works.
DarthEbriate Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Right now, the biggest things I want to hear about from GMKev of his plans at the presser: His vision of a team (e.g. GMTM top 6 and a mean bottom 6, heavy team; or JBot fast, aggressive forechecking). Because if he wants to go back to heavy, that gives a timeline on acquiring and developing those players. I prefer fast, but of course big and fast is awesome. Or if he wants tenacity --- it means some of our less physical players need to go. etc. And that switchover leads to timelines to player acquisition. Viewpoints and plans for analytics and cap management His priorities in the next 90 days while the league is in a hybrid stasis/playoff mode (is he just assembling his crew, or is he resigning RFAs, or is he wheeling/dealing with the other lottery teams. What does he want to focus on first, knowing that there's no Sabres hockey until.... whenever. What do y'all need/want to hear?
LabattBlue Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 I want the Pegula’s to put the team up for sale ASAP. They are a joke...and don’t point to the Bills success. They haven’t won a playoff game and their “franchise” QB has a lot to prove this season.
nfreeman Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Kevyn Adams before being named GM Pro/NHL Player - 1996-2008 - 540 career NHL games. Best season 2004/5 - 23 pts 2009 -11 Player Development Coach - Sabres 2011-13 Ast NHL Coach - Sabres 2013-2019 - Director of the Academy of Hockey @ Harborcenter Jan 2019 - Sept 2019 - GM of Harborcenter Sept 2019-June 2020 - Senior VP of Business Admin. To sum up - He has no team GM or Ast GM experience. No player or personnel management experience and no scouting scouting or drafting experience. This should be a train wreck of biblical proportion. We have given two rookie GM's a chance and both failed. This guy is No 3 and has by far the worst resume. I don't disagree with your pessimism based on these facts. KA's relative lack of experience lends further support to the theory that it will be RK that runs the show. Which, in turn, evidences that hiring RK was yet another incompetent move by JB -- since JB hired someone whom the Pegulas liked and trusted more than they did JB.
Taro T Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, Marvin, Sabres Fan said: The Pilut problem may have set them off. The timing works. Eichel's comments, Pilut's walking, & Hutton's problems making the papers. The Pegulas do not seem to take kindly towards embarrassment. None taken in a vacuum is d*mning nor particularly embarrassing. All combined lead towards death by 1,000 cuts. 2
Taro T Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I don't disagree with your pessimism based on these facts. KA's relative lack of experience lends further support to the theory that it will be RK that runs the show. Which, in turn, evidences that hiring RK was yet another incompetent move by JB -- since JB hired someone whom the Pegulas liked and trusted more than they did JB. Had Botterill & Krueger been on the same page, Ralph being trusted more wouldn't have been an issue. They weren't; it became one. And, in hindsight, yes, that was, from JBotts POV, an incompetent move. 2
PromoTheRobot Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: I want the Pegula’s to put the team up for sale ASAP. They are a joke...and don’t point to the Bills success. They haven’t won a playoff game and their “franchise” QB has a lot to prove this season. So let's blow up the Bills? 1
Stoner Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, SDS said: Some say revolving door because they are incompetent. I'm suggesting that revolving door exists in many places because of the nature of the job and its associated failure rate. Why can't it be that Botterill was a good choice at the time of the hire, but belongs on a laundry list of people who didn't succeed? But when the failure rate of so many good choices is 100%, it has to point to some other factor than, "It's tough to win in the NHL." Respected, recommended, solid hockey people don't have success with the Sabres. It's like an experiment where 100 healthy rats are sent through a maze with cheese stations to see how many make it out. You expect 25 to make it out. In this experiment, they all die. There must be something in the maze or in the cheese. (Hey, don't knock my hobby. It got me through the lockdown.)
SDS Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, PASabreFan said: But when the failure rate of so many good choices is 100%, it has to point to some other factor than, "It's tough to win in the NHL." Respected, recommended, solid hockey people don't have success with the Sabres. It's like an experiment where 100 healthy rats are sent through a maze with cheese stations to see how many make it out. You expect 25 to make it out. In this experiment, they all die. There must be something in the maze or in the cheese. (Hey, don't knock my hobby. It got me through the lockdown.) One would need to know the failure/success rate first and also take into the account context regarding the building plan when they first got here. The sample size is minuscule. Rex Ryan is the true black mark on their decision list. The rest belong in the bin of tried and failed people who didn't reach the top. They are everywhere in sports. 1
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 2 hours ago, nfreeman said: No. Narrowly missing the 24-team pandemic-driven playoffs does not mean they were a bubble team. I'm pretty sure narrowly missing (or making) the playoffs is literally the definition of a bubble team. I used the strike-through feature to help with comprehension. ?
etiennep99 Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 3 hours ago, LGR4GM said: John Adams was a founding father and a key agitator for independence in the run up to July 4th 1776. " Adams was both a devout Christian, and an independent thinker, and he saw no conflict in that." Ditto.
SwampD Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, jad1 said: Hiring a good GM is a mystery that every owner in every sport has to figure out. Who is the best GM-hiring owner in sports? Who has the GM-hiring model that always produces results? In the NHL, maybe its Jacobs? Maybe Lemieux? In the NFL, maybe the Rooney family? There are very few owners who have this figured out. The Pegulas are the rule, not the exception. I get all that, but people are saying that the Pegulas are following some model that is working over at 1BD. Yes, they hired a coach and GM. It's not magic. Let's hope it works out. This is like saying that all we have to do to have a better record is win more games.
DarthEbriate Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, SDS said: Interesting. Although I don't see how Adams' ability to translate hockey management to the owner qualifies him for the role of General Manager. It's like when the Emperor appointed Skywalker as a personal representative on the Jedi Council. Sure, they accepted him on the Council, but didn't assign him the role of Master. This is outrageous! Edited June 16, 2020 by DarthEbriate Edit: I totally misquoted Star Wars. Fixed.
WildCard Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Hamilton interview on it https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/scott-rintoul-show/paul-hamilton-jason-botterills-biggest-misstep/
SDS Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said: Interesting. Although I don't see how Adams' ability to translate hockey management to the owner qualifies him for the role of General Manager. It's like when the Emperor appointed Skywalker as a personal representative on the Jedi Council. Sure, they accepted him on the Council, but didn't assign him the role of Master. It's preposterous! Did someone give that as the reason?
darksabre Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, SDS said: So is the implication here that Adams was already sort of doing AGM stuff for Jason? I wonder how long that has been going on. 2
SDS Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, darksabre said: So is the implication here that Adams was already sort of doing AGM stuff for Jason? I wonder how long that has been going on. Good question.
Eleven Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just a couple of observations: 1. Any time ANY sports team owner says someone's job is safe, it means it isn't. 2. Kevyn Adams is the wrong choice here. 2
DarthEbriate Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, SDS said: Did someone give that as the reason? No --- all speculation. I just needed a reason to not grant him the rank of Master. ?
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