Pimlach Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, LGR4GM said: None of that matters if you don't draft well. Edmunds, Allen (maybe), White, Singeltary etc... were all drafted and fill key holes that make everything else go. Drafting is critical but it all matters. They drafted Allen and Edmunds because they cleaned house, dumped salaries, and stockpiled picks. They used the picks to move in the draft and go after players they liked. So the draft is the key but management of cap and not screwing yourself in free agency is also critical. 6 minutes ago, SDS said: Football isn’t even close to hockey in salary cap management. True .. I was just pointing out all the elements that Beane did an exemplary job on, and managing the cap is one of them.
Curt Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 WTF!!! So confused right now, but not exactly in a bad way.
SwampD Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, nucci said: those 2 games were in the last 3 years and Bills are now considered a top team in the league. Hire a good GM and coach...that's the model Is hiring a good GM and coach really a mystery that the Pegulas had to figure out?! Nothing that happens in the offseason will ever get more than a meh from me. ... and we still don’t know for sure if the Bills actually are a top team in the league.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, SDS said: If you have a predictive method to choosing people in sports, better than what is being used today, you would be wealthy beyond your wildest imagination. I know that. I'm not saying that I could do any better, but I'm not paid to even try. Just an observstion of the revolving door that is the Sabres GM and coaching offices since the Pegula's took over. I understand that they are learning on the fly here and hope that they get it right soon.
DarthEbriate Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Curt said: WTF!!! So confused right now, but not exactly in a bad way. You will know when you are calm... At peace... Passive. A GM uses the Ehrhoff for knowledge forwards and defense. Never for immediate response on a web forum.
In The Buff Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 I know we all like to compare the Sabres with the Bills for some kind of blueprint to turn things around. And i dont disagree that drafting well is critical, its something Jbotts himself has spoken about over & over again. The one caveat to that is in hockey it may take years for you to begin to evaluate a given draft year. Where in the NFL it can be the next season. For example we won't know the whole story on how Jbotts drafted & he won't even be around when we do.
SDS Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: I know that. I'm not saying that I could do any better, but I'm not paid to even try. Just an observstion of the revolving door that is the Sabres GM and coaching offices since the Pegula's took over. I understand that they are learning on the fly here and hope that they get it right soon. Some say revolving door because they are incompetent. I'm suggesting that revolving door exists in many places because of the nature of the job and its associated failure rate. Why can't it be that Botterill was a good choice at the time of the hire, but belongs on a laundry list of people who didn't succeed? 2
jad1 Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, SwampD said: Is hiring a good GM and coach really a mystery that the Pegulas had to figure out?! Nothing that happens in the offseason will ever get more than a meh from me. ... and we still don’t know for sure if the Bills actually are a top team in the league. Hiring a good GM is a mystery that every owner in every sport has to figure out. Who is the best GM-hiring owner in sports? Who has the GM-hiring model that always produces results? In the NHL, maybe its Jacobs? Maybe Lemieux? In the NFL, maybe the Rooney family? There are very few owners who have this figured out. The Pegulas are the rule, not the exception. 1
LGR4GM Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, Pimlach said: Drafting is critical but it all matters. They drafted Allen and Edmunds because they cleaned house, dumped salaries, and stockpiled picks. They used the picks to move in the draft and go after players they liked. So the draft is the key but management of cap and not screwing yourself in free agency is also critical. True .. I was just pointing out all the elements that Beane did an exemplary job on, and managing the cap is one of them. Your are focusing on the wrong thing. The Sabres will not be able to do what the Bills did. There isn't eh free agency or the depth to the draft like the NFL has. The Sabres have to draft better or none it will matter.
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Billy Beane resume before the Bills 1998-2007 - Panthers -served in various roles include Personnel and Football Operations 2008-2014- Panthers - Director of Football Operations 2015-2016 - Panthers - Ast. GM. Kevyn Adams before being named GM Pro/NHL Player - 1996-2008 - 540 career NHL games. Best season 2004/5 - 23 pts 2009 -11 Player Development Coach - Sabres 2011-13 Ast NHL Coach - Sabres 2013-2019 - Director of the Academy of Hockey @ Harborcenter Jan 2019 - Sept 2019 - GM of Harborcenter Sept 2019-June 2020 - Senior VP of Business Admin. To sum up - He has no team GM or Ast GM experience. No player or personnel management experience and no scouting scouting or drafting experience. This should be a train wreck of biblical proportion. We have given two rookie GM's a chance and both failed. This guy is No 3 and has by far the worst resume. 2 1
Sabres Fan in NS Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, SDS said: Some say revolving door because they are incompetent. I'm suggesting that revolving door exists in many places because of the nature of the job and its associated failure rate. Why can't it be that Botterill was a good choice at the time of the hire, but belongs on a laundry list of people who didn't succeed? I don't disagree with you on this. I think Botterill was a good choice for the job and was given a lot of tools to work with. It didn't work out. On the other hand, it may be that some of the hiring is also suspect, no? There can't be this many good hires that just didn't work out.
Taro T Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, SDS said: Some say revolving door because they are incompetent. I'm suggesting that revolving door exists in many places because of the nature of the job and its associated failure rate. Why can't it be that Botterill was a good choice at the time of the hire, but belongs on a laundry list of people who didn't succeed? Probably a very fair assessment. Other than not having been a GM previously, he checked pretty much all the boxes at the time of his hire. Which is why it's still a shame that he didn't get any more experienced help than Sexton. Having someone that had been successful in the role to bounce ideas off of might have been the piece he was missing. Water under the bridge now. 1
Beer Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 2 hours ago, thewookie1 said: Botts must of really made one hell of a blunder recently in his discussions with the Pegulas about the team. I'd guess the Pegulas are mostly tone deaf to the fans based on prior statements but something must of put Botts in hot water. Perhaps his plan was to bring up youngsters again and Krueger and Eichel told the Pegulas that doing the exact same thing is just plain insanity. Adams seems like an odd choice but he's likely giving a good deal of power to Krueger who has at very least built up foreign hockey programs. While he's one of the Pegula's people he is by far the only one that seemingly has had success in his positions in PSE. Perhaps he was actually considering trading Jack.
DarthEbriate Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Jan 2019 - Sept 2019 - GM of Harborcenter To sum up - He has no team GM or Ast GM experience. No player or personnel management experience and no scouting scouting or drafting experience. This should be a train wreck of biblical proportion. We have given two rookie GM's a chance and both failed. This guy is No 3 and has by far the worst resume. Yeah, but he was GM of Harborcenter! This is the most alarming item --- he hasn't handled AHL/NHL personnel before. He'll need experienced support. Like us 'Spacers!
LGR4GM Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, SDS said: Some say revolving door because they are incompetent. I'm suggesting that revolving door exists in many places because of the nature of the job and its associated failure rate. Why can't it be that Botterill was a good choice at the time of the hire, but belongs on a laundry list of people who didn't succeed? I think that is exactly how we should view Botterill.
Taro T Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Billy Beane resume before the Bills 1998-2007 - Panthers -served in various roles include Personnel and Football Operations 2008-2014- Panthers - Director of Football Operations 2015-2016 - Panthers - Ast. GM. Kevyn Adams before being named GM Pro/NHL Player - 1996-2008 - 540 career NHL games. Best season 2004/5 - 23 pts 2009 -11 Player Development Coach - Sabres 2011-13 Ast NHL Coach - Sabres 2013-2019 - Director of the Academy of Hockey @ Harborcenter Jan 2019 - Sept 2019 - GM of Harborcenter Sept 2019-June 2020 - Senior VP of Business Admin. To sum up - He has no team GM or Ast GM experience. No player or personnel management experience and no scouting scouting or drafting experience. This should be a train wreck of biblical proportion. We have given two rookie GM's a chance and both failed. This guy is No 3 and has by far the worst resume. Weren't the Junior Sabres under the HarborCenter umbrella? Not the same as evaluating and drafting a pro team, but they have been very successful at every level. 1
nucci Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, SwampD said: Is hiring a good GM and coach really a mystery that the Pegulas had to figure out?! Nothing that happens in the offseason will ever get more than a meh from me. ... and we still don’t know for sure if the Bills actually are a top team in the league. Apparently... and obviously we don't know about the Bills yet
Curt Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Billy Beane resume before the Bills 1998-2007 - Panthers -served in various roles include Personnel and Football Operations 2008-2014- Panthers - Director of Football Operations 2015-2016 - Panthers - Ast. GM. Kevyn Adams before being named GM Pro/NHL Player - 1996-2008 - 540 career NHL games. Best season 2004/5 - 23 pts 2009 -11 Player Development Coach - Sabres 2011-13 Ast NHL Coach - Sabres 2013-2019 - Director of the Academy of Hockey @ Harborcenter Jan 2019 - Sept 2019 - GM of Harborcenter Sept 2019-June 2020 - Senior VP of Business Admin. To sum up - He has no team GM or Ast GM experience. No player or personnel management experience and no scouting scouting or drafting experience. This should be a train wreck of biblical proportion. We have given two rookie GM's a chance and both failed. This guy is No 3 and has by far the worst resume. This is interesting. He seems like a manager as opposed to a talent evaluator. This would lead me to believe that he may lean heavily on the team of people around him when it comes to decision making on individual players.
dudacek Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said: Yeah, but he was GM of Harborcenter! This is the most alarming item --- he hasn't handled AHL/NHL personnel before. He'll need experienced support. Like us 'Spacers! He was an NHL player, a player development coach, and an NHL assistant coach. I don’t have any doubt he knows plenty about what makes an NHL player successful. Does he have great insight on whether Jimmy Vesey or Michael Frolik will help the Sabres? Hard to say. By his resume, Botterill should have known, but didn’t. I agree that adding expert pro personnel guys is crucial. Botterill and his lieutenants were clearly lacking in this area and it may be a reason why Greeley and Sexton are also now unemployed. 1
LGR4GM Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, dudacek said: He was an NHL player, a player development coach, and an NHL assistant coach. I don’t have any doubt he knows plenty about what makes an NHL player successful. Does he have great insight on whether Jimmy Vesey or Michael Frolik will help the Sabres? Hard to say. By his resume, Botterill should have known, but didn’t. I agree that adding expert pro personnel guys is crucial. Botterill and his lieutenants were clearly lacking in this area and it may be a reason why Greeley and Sexton are also now unemployed. An analytics guy could basically answer this because Frolik is bad and Vesey isn't good enough to retain. 1
WildCard Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: This is incredible ?
LabattBlue Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) Kevyn Adams? ???. Wasn’t he just in charge of the HarborCenter Hockey Academy a couple years ago? Just when you think this organization can’t go any lower, they make another head scratching front office move. I am so glad I gave up my season tix prior to last season. Edited June 16, 2020 by LabattBlue
Randall Flagg Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Billy Beane resume before the Bills 1998-2007 - Panthers -served in various roles include Personnel and Football Operations 2008-2014- Panthers - Director of Football Operations 2015-2016 - Panthers - Ast. GM. Kevyn Adams before being named GM Pro/NHL Player - 1996-2008 - 540 career NHL games. Best season 2004/5 - 23 pts 2009 -11 Player Development Coach - Sabres 2011-13 Ast NHL Coach - Sabres 2013-2019 - Director of the Academy of Hockey @ Harborcenter Jan 2019 - Sept 2019 - GM of Harborcenter Sept 2019-June 2020 - Senior VP of Business Admin. To sum up - He has no team GM or Ast GM experience. No player or personnel management experience and no scouting scouting or drafting experience. This should be a train wreck of biblical proportion. We have given two rookie GM's a chance and both failed. This guy is No 3 and has by far the worst resume. Worth worrying about. 1
dudacek Posted June 16, 2020 Report Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, LGR4GM said: An analytics guy could basically answer this because Frolik is bad and Vesey isn't good enough to retain. We didn’t need an analytics guy to tell us this. 1
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