Official Lawrence Pilut Signs 2 Year Deal for the KHL

[Thorner]

13 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Scandella, ROR come to mind. Any of the countless solid Dmen that everyone wanted out. Um,... Reinhart?

Should I keep going?

Lol nah I definitely didn’t want to move ROR. Perhaps Scandella? When he was having an objectively terrible year 2 seasons ago? But it doesn’t fit your point. 

Reinhart, I definitely went through a time where I expressed interest in moving him, in 17-18, when he had that terrible start to the season. For a similar pedigree young player. Wrong? Hell yes. But it wasn’t based on some pattern of wanting to move “solid” players because they weren’t great. I didn’t believe in the guy, for a stretch. 

Saying that Risto isn’t a good hockey player is a valid opinion that stands on its own. Plenty of much smarter people than me not even associated with the Sabres have watched the games and analyzed the data and come to that conclusion. I’m not saying it’s the only conclusion, but me feeling that way isn’t systematic of whatever inherent bs you are referring to.

He’s one of the only players on this roster I wouldn’t hypothetically have a “spot” for on my roster, should I build a team. Obviously I’m not keeping them all, but most can fit competently in a spot on my team. 

I would actively avoid acquiring Ristolainen. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Thorny

[Broken Ankles]

32 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I don’t see any possible way Pilut is top 4 on the Sabres next year.  

I don’t think he is worthy of a top 4 either, but I also don’t think McCabe is that much better.  If Pilut leaves, we go from having a surplus on D to an extremely weak left side.  An the UFA market for LD is not strong this year. Perhaps Buffalo could use cap space to extricate a Defenseman by trade and push Jake to the third pairing, but I’d much rather take my chances with those two at a reasonable AAV as 4/6.  Just not a fan of having two right handed D.  

If this is not a ploy and he’s unhappy, how do see 1-6 on D next season? 

[dudacek]

55 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

I don’t think he is worthy of a top 4 either, but I also don’t think McCabe is that much better.  If Pilut leaves, we go from having a surplus on D to an extremely weak left side.  An the UFA market for LD is not strong this year. Perhaps Buffalo could use cap space to extricate a Defenseman by trade and push Jake to the third pairing, but I’d much rather take my chances with those two at a reasonable AAV as 4/6.  Just not a fan of having two right handed D.  

If this is not a ploy and he’s unhappy, how do see 1-6 on D next season? 

in terms of how I’d deploy ice time?

Dahlin

Risto

Montour

Jokiharju

McCabe/Miller

Exactly the same way I’d do it if Pilut is on the roster.

If he walks, I’d sign a minimum wage NHL vet to battle Borgen for the right to be my 7, a Casey Nelson/Zach Redmond/John Gilmour type (remember the hand-wringing about him?) to be a desperation recall/Rochester vet, and hope Bryson and Samuelsson play well enough that they’ll get called up first.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by dudacek

[PromoTheRobot]

22 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Is this because Kim didn't recognize him at the airport?

[inkman]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Is this because Kim didn't recognize him at the airport?

I thought we didn't want the owners meddling? ?

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, inkman said:

I thought we didn't want the owners meddling? ?

We don't...unless we do.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Who?

And, so what?

This will help the log jam on D and he was not playing for the Sabres anyway.

If Rasmus D was going then I would go with him.

[Broken Ankles]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

in terms of how I’d deploy ice time?

Dahlin

Risto

Montour

Jokiharju

McCabe/Miller

Exactly the same way I’d do it if Pilut is on the roster.

If he walks, I’d sign a minimum wage NHL vet to battle Borgen for the right to be my 7, a Casey Nelson/Zach Redmond/John Gilmour type (remember the hand-wringing about him?) to be a desperation recall/Rochester vet, and hope Bryson and Samuelsson play well enough that they’ll get called up first.

 

 I'm probably dumb for challenging you on this, but I disagree with a few of these notions.   First of all is the idea of a R/R (Montour and Joki) on your second pair.  The NHL has slowly migrated away from L/L and R/R pairings over the last 10 years.  A L/R pairing was less than 50% of the time in 2008, and now it's greater than 75%.  I trust what other GM's and Coaches are trending towards, not our own.  Couple this trend with the fact the L/R is proven to have higher Corsi and Fenwick numbers over R/R, LL, and the Sabres like to move the puck from low to high and the point shots at a higher than average rate, I need to have a L/R combo at all times.  Using this logic as a presupposition, I need to decide between Joki or Montour on the second pair.   I supposed we could push Montour up to the first but I'm not in favor of that.  Similarly I don't like pushing Joki to the third.  So I pass on Montour's RFA contract and use him as trade capital this fall.  Sticking with Joki as my 2RD for now.   Knowing that RD are slightly more valued, (2019-20 stats suggest that 59% of the top 250 D-men by average TOI are Left handed, and that more than half of the teams in the NHL deployed Left handed players more than 59% of games played) I think Risto and Montour hold more trade value than some think.   (Insert JB joke about knowing the inherent value of a scarce resource).   I use them to obtain 2C.

   My other rationale for dispensing both is we need young Rasmus to have a true complimentary pair.  Stay at home, eats minutes, and can play all special teams.  This will be expensive so I need to remove two medium priced D to make up for the huge cap hit  in Dahlin's new partner.   Lastly, while I'm not adverse to seeing Risto's minutes reduced even more so, and playing a true 2RD position, I've already reconciled why Joki needs 2 pairing minutes, and again do not want R/R pairings.  So for a multitude of reasons (Cap space, positional play, reduced PP role, PK was ineffective and could be upgraded with true RD) I'm ready to move on from Risto.   

 And maybe there is a LD veteran that can play 3rd line minutes for minimum salary.  Lets use Nathan 'Ball-yu' as minimum lever replacement player for say $1.25M.  For me, I think Pilut has way more upside than a JAG like Nate.   For about the same price.  Maybe we move on from Pilut in 2022, but for the next two years, I prefer Lawrence. Especially if paired with Miller or Bogan (whom I have slotted as a starter in 2021).   We agree on Borgan as #7 for certain in the fall/winter of this year.  

My pairings on the left, yours on the right. 

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

 I'm probably dumb for challenging you on this, but I disagree with a few of these notions.   First of all is the idea of a R/R (Montour and Joki) on your second pair.  The NHL has slowly migrated away from L/L and R/R pairings over the last 10 years.  A L/R pairing was less than 50% of the time in 2008, and now it's greater than 75%.  I trust what other GM's and Coaches are trending towards, not our own.  Couple this trend with the fact the L/R is proven to have higher Corsi and Fenwick numbers over R/R, LL, and the Sabres like to move the puck from low to high and the point shots at a higher than average rate, I need to have a L/R combo at all times.  Using this logic as a presupposition, I need to decide between Joki or Montour on the second pair.   I supposed we could push Montour up to the first but I'm not in favor of that.  Similarly I don't like pushing Joki to the third.  So I pass on Montour's RFA contract and use him as trade capital this fall.  Sticking with Joki as my 2RD for now.   Knowing that RD are slightly more valued, (2019-20 stats suggest that 59% of the top 250 D-men by average TOI are Left handed, and that more than half of the teams in the NHL deployed Left handed players more than 59% of games played) I think Risto and Montour hold more trade value than some think.   (Insert JB joke about knowing the inherent value of a scarce resource).   I use them to obtain 2C.

   My other rationale for dispensing both is we need young Rasmus to have a true complimentary pair.  Stay at home, eats minutes, and can play all special teams.  This will be expensive so I need to remove two medium priced D to make up for the huge cap hit  in Dahlin's new partner.   Lastly, while I'm not adverse to seeing Risto's minutes reduced even more so, and playing a true 2RD position, I've already reconciled why Joki needs 2 pairing minutes, and again do not want R/R pairings.  So for a multitude of reasons (Cap space, positional play, reduced PP role, PK was ineffective and could be upgraded with true RD) I'm ready to move on from Risto.   

 And maybe there is a LD veteran that can play 3rd line minutes for minimum salary.  Lets use Nathan 'Ball-yu' as minimum lever replacement player for say $1.25M.  For me, I think Pilut has way more upside than a JAG like Nate.   For about the same price.  Maybe we move on from Pilut in 2022, but for the next two years, I prefer Lawrence. Especially if paired with Miller or Bogan (whom I have slotted as a starter in 2021).   We agree on Borgan as #7 for certain in the fall/winter of this year.  

My pairings on the left, yours on the right. 

Don’t think we actually disagree on much.

My guys were listed in terms of how much ice time I’d give them, not pairs. 

Ideally, I’d rather have three lefts, 3 rights too, with a caveat. Some guys (not Montour) are pretty good on their offhand, how well they play the position matters more than general philosophy.

I would move any D not named Dahlin to fix our 2C hole and the cases you make for moving Montour and Risto have merit. Also agree that we could use another D who can defend and kill penalties.

I would way rather have your D than mine, even though that Miller/Pilut pair would be a nightmare in our zone. Because Pietrangelo, who is great (and highly unlikely)

The only thing I really disagree on is that Pilut is more than a JAG with way more upside than Beaulieu. Beaulieu is a JAG, but he is also better than the horror show that was his first season in Buffalo. Pilut isn’t a kid. He is a couple years younger than Beaulieu and turns 25 this year. And Pilut isn’t the player his first 15 NHL games and small-sample analytics convinced some people that he is.

Edited May 28, 2020 by dudacek

[Kruppstahl]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:52 PM, LabattBlue said:

No great loss.  Small good skating blue liner.  Plenty of those guys in the pipeline including Bryson and Johnson. 

Couldn't disagree more.  His misuse has been horrible, and further proof of this administration's utter inability to properly assess talent.

Hopefully he is doing this KHL thing as a ploy, but honestly, it doesn't matter.

Our problems greatly outweigh the status of any single player, maybe with the exception of Jack or Dahlin.

 

[Zamboni]

Meh. He’s got a nice skill set. I hope he develops more and another club will give him a bigger role.

[Curt]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:10 PM, New Scotland (NS) said:

Who?

And, so what?

This will help the log jam on D and he was not playing for the Sabres anyway.

If Rasmus D was going then I would go with him.

You would ideally still like to get something in return for a young promising D, even if he wasn’t in the Sabres long term plans for whatever reason.

Losing players for nothing is not the optimal way of clearing up a logjam of talent.

[Rasmus_]

I will believe it when it's official per someone more credible.  McKenzie, Dreger or an official team release. 

[Brawndo]

 

[Curt]

What a waste on the part of Buffalo.

[freester]

This is just further evidence of JBot’s total and complete incompetence. You should never lose a high quality asset for nothing. 

[shrader]

41 minutes ago, freester said:

This is just further evidence of JBot’s total and complete incompetence. You should never lose a high quality asset for nothing. 

How exactly do you get a return in this scenario?  If the guy wants to leave for the KHL, it's not like you can trade him into that league.  They'll still qualify him and retain his rights.

[nfreeman]

3 minutes ago, shrader said:

How exactly do you get a return in this scenario?  If the guy wants to leave for the KHL, it's not like you can trade him into that league.  They'll still qualify him and retain his rights.

Well, theoretically the Sabres could've traded him last season if he wasn't in their plans, or even perhaps just traded his RFA rights after their season ended.

I doubt they would've gotten much for him, and perhaps they just decided that they'd rather keep his rights and take another look at him after 2 years in the KHL -- but it could easily be a simple case of squandering and mismanaging an asset.

[shrader]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

Well, theoretically the Sabres could've traded him last season if he wasn't in their plans, or even perhaps just traded his RFA rights after their season ended.

I doubt they would've gotten much for him, and perhaps they just decided that they'd rather keep his rights and take another look at him after 2 years in the KHL -- but it could easily be a simple case of squandering and mismanaging an asset.

And it could just as easily be a case of a guy who doesn't want to stay in the NHL.  Wasn't there a comment in here earlier that the Sabres wanted him to stick around?  True or not, there's really not all that much they can do if a guy wants to go back across the pond.  Given the way the entire NHL came to a crashing halt this year, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see a player suddenly reassessing what he wants.

But whatever, there's no need for the finger pointing here just for the sake of finger pointing.  I'd love to hear from Pilut's camp about his true motivations here, but I suspect that we never will.  He's going to disappear into the night, never to be seen again.

[Curt]

15 minutes ago, shrader said:

How exactly do you get a return in this scenario?  If the guy wants to leave for the KHL, it's not like you can trade him into that league.  They'll still qualify him and retain his rights.

If there had not been 11 other NHL D on the team, maybe Pilut could have gotten a prolonged try in the NHL and he would not have felt like he had to go to the KHL.

[dudacek]

He’s going to challenge Antipin and Grigorenko for the scoring title over there.

He might even light it up like Artem Kryukov. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, freester said:

This is just further evidence of JBot’s total and complete incompetence. You should never lose a high quality asset for nothing. 

Lol.  He signed this guy for nothing and the guy is exercising his free agent rights. How is this Jbot’s fault? The guy wasn’t good enough to win a permanent job on our defense and isn’t guaranteed to make the top 6 this next season.  Right now he is a quality AAAA player.  Think Guhle.  Considering our depth on D in the organization, this is certainly not a huge loss, just a disappointing one because it feels there is more potential there then we have seen.  

We also maintain his rights if he ever wants to return. 

[DarthEbriate]

Perhaps Pilut was only ever going to be an AHL All-Star caliber D. I think he could've been the 6/7 and play PP2 just fine, with the right 3rd pairing partner.

Bogosian, Pilut, and Hunwick were all injured to start last season (known all summer), with Hunwick likely already known as LTIR. And Montour got hurt in preseason. So it's good on JBOT to go get defensive depth in Jokiharju. But then you have to have a plan to get back to regular numbers. Into December and January we had 2 defensemen routinely playing forward in Rochester, plus routinely dressing 7 defensemen in Buffalo (of which Bogo was one). That is mismanagement of assets.

Now, it's taken care of itself. Scandella was traded for peanuts. Bogo was let go. Redmond (AHL All-Star caliber) walked. Pilut (AHL All-Star caliber) walked. I think Hunwick has retired. Maybe McCabe or Pilut should have been traded with more value earlier.

The team that really suffers from this depletion is Rochester, who lost two top-end offensive D that the team really relied on. The hope is that Bryson and others step up and learn quickly.

[CallawaySabres]

Honestly, it feels like the NHL doesn't even exist in Buffalo. I don't miss it all all....

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

If there had not been 11 other NHL D on the team, maybe Pilut could have gotten a prolonged try in the NHL and he would not have felt like he had to go to the KHL.

While we're throwing hypotheticals out there, maybe it's so simply as being happier back over there.  He's not the first and certainly won't be the last guy to go back after a couple years here.  Sometimes there's nothing sinister going on at all.  If he really wanted to be in the NHL but not with Buffalo, he probably would have been able to make it happen.  I think even the team would have worked with him on that if it was the case.  So he thinks the KHL is the best path for his career, so be it.