Botterill Returning Next Season- Kim Pegula

[LabattBlue]

Not every defenseman on a team has to be a non-physical PMD. It’s okay to have a mix of different types of players both in the forward ranks and on the blue line.  
 

Keep putting together a roster of almost nothing but figure skaters, and you will keep the streak of missing the playoffs intact.  

[nfreeman]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

They are contractually bound to keep the Sabres in Buffalo.

Again:  notwithstanding Larry Quinn's claims, none of us has any idea whether this is true.

[Radar]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Again:  notwithstanding Larry Quinn's claims, none of us has any idea whether this is true.

Sad but I don't even care much anymore.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Again:  notwithstanding Larry Quinn's claims, none of us has any idea whether this is true.

Tom Golisano said in an interview with John Wawrow that was published on February 3rd, 2011 that one of the conditions of the sale was the Sabres cannot be moved.  Given how meticulous John is with checking information with sources, I imagine he verified this elsewhere as well.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=6087856

Edited June 2, 2020 by Brawndo

[nfreeman]

@Brawndo — there isn’t much detail in that piece.  Until I see the agreement, I will continue to be confident that while lip service is probably paid to keeping the team in Buffalo, there are various conditions relating to economic results (among others) that leave the commitment fairly toothless.  

[Stoner]

30 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

@Brawndo — there isn’t much detail in that piece.  Until I see the agreement, I will continue to be confident that while lip service is probably paid to keeping the team in Buffalo, there are various conditions relating to economic results (among others) that leave the commitment fairly toothless.  

Where does your confidence come from? Were you confident it was Larry Quinn and not Tom Golisano who confirmed the no-move clause in the contract?

[nfreeman]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Where does your confidence come from? Were you confident it was Larry Quinn and not Tom Golisano who confirmed the no-move clause in the contract?

My confidence comes from living on the planet earth and being familiar with how things generally happen. 

Tell me:  if you had to bet your house one way or the other — ie either that the commitment to stay in Buffalo is ironclad and unconditional, or that there are loopholes — which way would you bet?

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

My confidence comes from living on the planet earth and being familiar with how things generally happen. 

Tell me:  if you had to bet your house one way or the other — ie either that the commitment to stay in Buffalo is ironclad and unconditional, or that there are loopholes — which way would you bet?

Before I commit...

@john wawrow

[Cascade Youth]

21 hours ago, Crosschecking said:

Don’t give them a reason to move the franchise.

MOVE THE FRANCHISE.

[Brawndo]

4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

@Brawndo — there isn’t much detail in that piece.  Until I see the agreement, I will continue to be confident that while lip service is probably paid to keeping the team in Buffalo, there are various conditions relating to economic results (among others) that leave the commitment fairly toothless.  

 

4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

My confidence comes from living on the planet earth and being familiar with how things generally happen. 

Tell me:  if you had to bet your house one way or the other — ie either that the commitment to stay in Buffalo is ironclad and unconditional, or that there are loopholes — which way would you bet?

As I said before John Wawrow, spoke directly to Tom Golisano who told him that the team cannot be moved as part of the agreement, JW has mentioned multiple times that he will usually hold a story until he gets verification from a few sources, I imagine this was no different. Since the agreement was between two private parties, you know that there is no way the general public will ever see that contract. Therefore never of us can be proven correct at the present time.

 The Good News is that the Lease Agreement between The Sabres and Erie County expires in 2025 and details about The non relocation clause should be made available once that new lease is finalized.

 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

As I said before John Wawrow, spoke directly to Tom Golisano who told him that the team cannot be moved as part of the agreement, JW has mentioned multiple times that he will usually hold a story until he gets verification from a few sources, I imagine this was no different. Since the agreement was between two private parties, you know that there is no way the general public will ever see that contract. Therefore never of us can be proven correct at the present time.

 The Good News is that the Lease Agreement between The Sabres and Erie County expires in 2025 and details about The non relocation clause should be made available once that new lease is finalized.

 

Absolutely believe there is a no relocation clause that the Sabres operate under.  The problem is, if they were to ever declare bankruptcy there is a very good chance that clause would be voided.

[LGR4GM]

19 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Not every defenseman on a team has to be a non-physical PMD. It’s okay to have a mix of different types of players both in the forward ranks and on the blue line.  
 

Keep putting together a roster of almost nothing but figure skaters, and you will keep the streak of missing the playoffs intact.  

And keep adding low skilled grinders with physicality to the team who don't improve shot metrics and "you will keep the streak of missing the playoffs intact." 

[nucci]

On 6/1/2020 at 11:46 PM, Crosschecking said:

 

As for Mike Milbury, I’ll pass. Something about his personality rubs me the way way.

 

Plus the fact he was an awful GM

https://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-worst-mike-milbury-trades-contracts-and-transactions/

[DarthEbriate]

9 minutes ago, nucci said:

Plus the fact he was an awful GM

https://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-worst-mike-milbury-trades-contracts-and-transactions/

What!? <hit by adjacent TIE Fighter> Did someone suggest hiring Milbury as Sabres GM? The guy who visibly seethes when he has to talk about Buffalo on NBCSN? He'd trade Eichel to Boston for a 4th and retain salary, then abandon ship back to the broadcast booth. Plus, his history as a GM taking over a rebuild and jettisoning all good young D-men, leading to 6 more years of missing the playoffs doesn't bode well. Eventually, his team's did make the playoffs (trading for Peca helped a bunch), but they never made it past the first round. <end rant as my ship has spun out into the reaches of space>

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 6/2/2020 at 12:46 AM, Crosschecking said:

Sure, let's waste ANOTHER season! Question for all of you OK with this: why weren't you all upset that the Bills didn't give Peterman 4 seasons as the starter? Botts is the Nathan Peterman of hockey GM's: completely incompetent and in way over his head. Why not go out and hire ***** Milbury or Chia as consultants to produce the shittiest front office in the history of North American pro sports. 

At first read I thought this post was taliking about this Peterman ...

 

Never mind ...

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

At first read I thought this post was taliking about this Peterman ...

 

Never mind ...

....back on the Horse, Smack, White Palace, the Chinamans nightcap.  Hilarious.   Thanks for posting. 

[Kruppstahl]

6 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

What!? <hit by adjacent TIE Fighter> Did someone suggest hiring Milbury as Sabres GM? The guy who visibly seethes when he has to talk about Buffalo on NBCSN? He'd trade Eichel to Boston for a 4th and retain salary, then abandon ship back to the broadcast booth. Plus, his history as a GM taking over a rebuild and jettisoning all good young D-men, leading to 6 more years of missing the playoffs doesn't bode well. Eventually, his team's did make the playoffs (trading for Peca helped a bunch), but they never made it past the first round. <end rant as my ship has spun out into the reaches of space>

Yes, Milbury was suggested, as a joke and facetious reference to the fact that things can't really get much worse than retaining Botterill for another year. 

 

 

[nfreeman]

On 6/2/2020 at 9:23 PM, Brawndo said:

 

As I said before John Wawrow, spoke directly to Tom Golisano who told him that the team cannot be moved as part of the agreement, JW has mentioned multiple times that he will usually hold a story until he gets verification from a few sources, I imagine this was no different. Since the agreement was between two private parties, you know that there is no way the general public will ever see that contract. Therefore never of us can be proven correct at the present time.

 The Good News is that the Lease Agreement between The Sabres and Erie County expires in 2025 and details about The non relocation clause should be made available once that new lease is finalized.

 

Well, it's entirely in TG's interest to tout the no-move clause and it's also in the interest of LQ and local politicians -- who are good candidates for being JW's other sources (assuming there were any).  If @john wawrow read the contract himself and saw the clause, I'd love for him to say so here.  Otherwise I'm quite skeptical.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Well, it's entirely in TG's interest to tout the no-move clause and it's also in the interest of LQ and local politicians -- who are good candidates for being JW's other sources (assuming there were any).  If @john wawrow read the contract himself and saw the clause, I'd love for him to say so here.  Otherwise I'm quite skeptical.

Again, fully expect the clause is in the contract.  Whether it would survive a bankruptcy filing is another discussion.  And it wouldn't be too onerous for them to get to a point where bankruptcy was feasible (if they wanted to go that route).  (And not saying they want to declare bankruptcy.)

About the only way the clause (in the eyes of this non-lawyer) would be more or less iron clad is if there were some sort of right of 1st refusal for Golisano or one of Quinny's cronies which likely isn't there.

[nfreeman]

9 hours ago, Taro T said:

Again, fully expect the clause is in the contract.  Whether it would survive a bankruptcy filing is another discussion.  And it wouldn't be too onerous for them to get to a point where bankruptcy was feasible (if they wanted to go that route).  (And not saying they want to declare bankruptcy.)

About the only way the clause (in the eyes of this non-lawyer) would be more or less iron clad is if there were some sort of right of 1st refusal for Golisano or one of Quinny's cronies which likely isn't there.

I too expect that some kind of no-move clause is in the contract.  I also expect though that it is subject to various conditions that would render it ineffective -- i.e. allow TP to move the team -- if the economics aren't good enough. 

Of course, regardless of the contract, any franchise move (including any move following a bankruptcy, as we saw when Balsillie tried that maneuver with the Predators ) would be subject to NHL approval.  I think that approval gives Buffalo greater protection -- although it's still far from bulletproof -- than any alleged no-move clause.

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I too expect that some kind of no-move clause is in the contract.  I also expect though that it is subject to various conditions that would render it ineffective -- i.e. allow TP to move the team -- if the economics aren't good enough. 

Of course, regardless of the contract, any franchise move (including any move following a bankruptcy, as we saw when Balsillie tried that maneuver with the Predators ) would be subject to NHL approval.  I think that approval gives Buffalo greater protection -- although it's still far from bulletproof -- than any alleged no-move clause.

Al Davis moved his Raiders twice against league wishes.  The NFL seems to be stronger than the NHL.  Really doubt the NHL could completely prevent a move by a determined out of town owner.  IMHO, the thing that gives Buffalo its greatest protection from losing its team is having well capitalized owners committed to staying in Buffalo.  

For the times, the Knoxes were that.  When they no longer were relatively, that's when the criminals got involved (fortunately, their business needed the Sabres to be viable in Buffalo even though their ethics were compromised). Golisano definitely fit the bill & the Pegulas raise that a notch, though their apparent ST cash flow issues are problematic.

[nfreeman]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Al Davis moved his Raiders twice against league wishes.  The NFL seems to be stronger than the NHL.  Really doubt the NHL could completely prevent a move by a determined out of town owner.  IMHO, the thing that gives Buffalo its greatest protection from losing its team is having well capitalized owners committed to staying in Buffalo.  

For the times, the Knoxes were that.  When they no longer were relatively, that's when the criminals got involved (fortunately, their business needed the Sabres to be viable in Buffalo even though their ethics were compromised). Golisano definitely fit the bill & the Pegulas raise that a notch, though their apparent ST cash flow issues are problematic.

I completely agree with the bolded.  I just think no one should kid himself that the owner commitment to staying here depends on some clause in a contract that no one has seen and that doesn't seem realistic.

As for whether the NHL could prevent an owner from moving a team -- that is exactly what they did with Balsillie, including, IIRC, winning a court case -- and I think it happened with Balsillie twice.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I completely agree with the bolded.  I just think no one should kid himself that the owner commitment to staying here depends on some clause in a contract that no one has seen and that doesn't seem realistic.

As for whether the NHL could prevent an owner from moving a team -- that is exactly what they did with Balsillie, including, IIRC, winning a court case -- and I think it happened with Balsillie twice.

The league kept Balsillie from PURCHASING a team (at least twice) which is a FAR cry from preventing a team owner from moving his/her team.  (They also back in the 80's kept an owner that wanted to move the Blues to Saskatoon from buying the team from Ralston-Purina scuttling that sale.  R-P owning the Blues being the reason the building they played in being called the Checker Dome.)  Had Balsillie been smart and not pushed the "my team is moving to Kitchener/Windsor" mantra so vehemently, he'd've owned a team & Canada would currently have 8 franchises.

[kas23]

I get that Sabres news is slow and we all want something to discuss, but this moving the Sabres is a complete nonstarter. The Pegulas have invested an enormous amount of money in the Buffalo area, especially around the arena. They would stand to lose all of this if they were to move. Then they would be tasked with running 2 sport teams in different cities. All those synergies dissolve. It’s not happening. I never say never, but I think I may make an exception in this case. 

[Kruppstahl]

2 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I get that Sabres news is slow and we all want something to discuss, but this moving the Sabres is a complete nonstarter. The Pegulas have invested an enormous amount of money in the Buffalo area, especially around the arena. They would stand to lose all of this if they were to move. Then they would be tasked with running 2 sport teams in different cities. All those synergies dissolve. It’s not happening. I never say never, but I think I may make an exception in this case. 

Never say never.  I can easily see them selling the Sabres, if the whole thing becomes to big a pain in their ass.

I would not see them replace the team with another.

I.E., they will retain the Bills and no more.  2 teams is too big a load, as they are finding out now.

And they will never keep an NHL franchise over an NFL franchise.

The NFL ownership is the big game these sorts of people are after.

In fact, had the 2 Buffalo teams become available in reverse order, I think Pegula would have gone for the Bills, and then declined to buy the Sabres.