Targeting a 2C

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I understand that my needle is not likely to be moved 

That’s what she said.

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We aren't getting any of the those players except maybe Domi, maybe.

Truth be told we don't need any of those players long-term.  For cap reasons we really need a bridge player until Mitts, Cozens or even this year's pick are ready for the job.  Also guys like Barzal, Dubios and Cirelli aren't being moved.  

Again: Miitlestadt doesn't belong on this list any more than @PASabreFan does.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Again: Miitlestadt doesn't belong on this list any more than @PASabreFan does.

Would you say that Mikkel Boedker has had a pretty decent NHL career?   He's at 709 NHL games and counting and he didn't reach his peck until 6 years after he was drafted.  He took a very similar road to the journey to full time NHLer that Mitts is on now and ultimately ended up being a low end 2nd line and mostly a 3rd line player.   I think Casey's talent is better then that and he is only entering year 3.

Boedker story is proof that you, me and everyone here have zero idea what a now 21 year old drafted 8th overall will become.  Zero!  Mitts can easily take a huge step forward in his development as he naturally matures into his 6'1 200 lbs frame.  We all knew he was physically immature when we got him, but now I wouldn't be at all surprised that he has added the necessary strength.  I also won't be surprised if he beat out Cozens for the 3C job this fall.  He does have 114 NHL games under his belt and that gives him a head start on understanding when the team needs and how he can contribute.  I can also see him getting converted to wing or even being traded to help get other assets.  However I also wouldn't be shocked to see him emerge as an eventual 2nd line player here or elsewhere.

It is simply wrong to write off a 21 year old kid entering his 3rd pro season.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Cozens wins the battle and Mitts gets sent down to the start the season.  After that I'd wager that he pulls a Pominville and grabs a permanent spot when the inevitable injuries strike and this spot will almost certainly be on the wing.

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

Mitts is problem isn't physical maturity. His problem is he has to learn how to play hockey instead of the dipsy doodle crap and slow reaction to things he was trying for 2 years because Botterill was too dumb to recognize he clearly wasn't NHL ready. It isn't his body, it is learning how to play the game at a higher level that Mitts lacks. 

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Would you say that Mikkel Boedker has had a pretty decent NHL career?   He's at 709 NHL games and counting and he didn't reach his peck until 6 years after he was drafted.  He took a very similar road to the journey to full time NHLer that Mitts is on now and ultimately ended up being a low end 2nd line and mostly a 3rd line player.   I think Casey's talent is better then that and he is only entering year 3.

Boedker story is proof that you, me and everyone here have zero idea what a now 21 year old drafted 8th overall will become.  Zero!  Mitts can easily take a huge step forward in his development as he naturally matures into his 6'1 200 lbs frame.  We all knew he was physically immature when we got him, but now I wouldn't be at all surprised that he has added the necessary strength.  I also won't be surprised if he beat out Cozens for the 3C job this fall.  He does have 114 NHL games under his belt and that gives him a head start on understanding when the team needs and how he can contribute.  I can also see him getting converted to wing or even being traded to help get other assets.  However I also wouldn't be shocked to see him emerge as an eventual 2nd line player here or elsewhere.

It is simply wrong to write off a 21 year old kid entering his 3rd pro season.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Cozens wins the battle and Mitts gets sent down to the start the season.  After that I'd wager that he pulls a Pominville and grabs a permanent spot when the inevitable injuries strike and this spot will almost certainly be on the wing.

 

Oh goody... another left wing candidate. Don't have any of those lying around. 

[nfreeman]

I'm not writing Mitts off.  But I am disagreeing with you "writing him in," i.e. assuming he's going to be a decent-to-good NHL player by using phrases like "until Mitts is ready."  I think Mitts has shown zero at the NHL level or, based on Sabrespace eyewitness reports, at the AHL level, to support that assumption. 

[Weave]

21 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'm not writing Mitts off.  But I am disagreeing with you "writing him in," i.e. assuming he's going to be a decent-to-good NHL player by using phrases like "until Mitts is ready."  I think Mitts has shown zero at the NHL level or, based on Sabrespace eyewitness reports, at the AHL level, to support that assumption. 

Yup.  This team can’t afford to write anyone in.  We don’t need an interim 2C.  We need a 2C.  And then we’ll deal with having two 2Cs on the roster if it actually proves to be an issue somewhere down the road.

[tom webster]

The one thing I never understand about these arguments that a team ruined this or that players development is why don’t these players “learn” how to play the game when somebody finally gives them a chance?

Granted, there are instances of players fulfilling there “supposed” potential when they get there second or third chance, but they are rare.

I will stand by my position, players find their level regardless of how a team “develops” them. Some guys like a Johan Larsson realize they can carve out a productive career by becoming something other then a top line player. Some guys need to grow into their bodies and become top 6 guys after a year or two in the AHL. Some guys don’t want to adjust their game. Some guys skill set falls between the AHL and NHL.

Mitts is still young enough to fall in the “incomplete” category. I, for one, won’t believe that what he turns out to be has anything to do with him being rushed into the NHL. 
 

For the record, I do agree he should not have been in the NHL. 

[Stoner]

31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'm not writing Mitts off.  But I am disagreeing with you "writing him in," i.e. assuming he's going to be a decent-to-good NHL player by using phrases like "until Mitts is ready."  I think Mitts has shown zero at the NHL level or, based on Sabrespace eyewitness reports, at the AHL level, to support that assumption. 

This line cracked me up.

Based solely on Dan's ability to come up with something corny ("May the Faksa Be With You) and Rob's inability to get the name right, in fact the probability he loses the FCC license for MSG, the winner is Radek.

[NAF]

19 hours ago, Tondas said:

Welcome NAF.  I'm in!  Is Middlestadt out?

Thanks yea I traded him for Puljujarvi

[Ducky]

Quite a few teams looking for a bona fide 2C.

Mitts doesn't have a 2C in his future? (Does anyone think he was rushed onto the team?)

I have been hearing the same things about Monahan but the price would be very expensive.

Cirelli is going nowhere.

The Habs will want too much for Domi.

I'd be interested in Nick Schmaltz if AZ wanted to move him. They have a lot of centers. 

 

[Curt]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

The one thing I never understand about these arguments that a team ruined this or that players development is why don’t these players “learn” how to play the game when somebody finally gives them a chance?

Granted, there are instances of players fulfilling there “supposed” potential when they get there second or third chance, but they are rare.

I will stand by my position, players find their level regardless of how a team “develops” them. Some guys like a Johan Larsson realize they can carve out a productive career by becoming something other then a top line player. Some guys need to grow into their bodies and become top 6 guys after a year or two in the AHL. Some guys don’t want to adjust their game. Some guys skill set falls between the AHL and NHL.

Mitts is still young enough to fall in the “incomplete” category. I, for one, won’t believe that what he turns out to be has anything to do with him being rushed into the NHL. 
 

For the record, I do agree he should not have been in the NHL. 

I get what you are saying, but can’t entirely agree.

Ultimatley, a player is responsible for their performance.  It’s not the organizations “fault” if they don’t play well.

However, playing hockey at an NHL level is really difficult and anything an organization can do to help players out/make it easier for them to succeed is going to give that organization a competitive advantage.  Even if it just helps 10% of players perform at a higher level, it helps the team.  So, I can’t remove all agency from the organization either.  They certainly play a role.

[OhMyDahlin]

21 hours ago, NAF said:

I think a solid off season would be to trade Mittelstadt for Puljujarvi, and sign Erik Haula as a 2C. Hopefully the abundance of Fins on our team can lure him in. Cirelli will be too costly to trade for and an offer sheet is unrealistic. Roster would look like this:

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Haula - Kahun

Johansson - Cozens - Puljujarvi

Lazar - Larsson - Okposo (If no CBO)

 

Dahlin - Miller

Montour - Jokiharju

McCabe - Ristolainen

 

I see no way in which Botterill isn't fired if he doesn't find a 2C, so I am curious to see what happens this off season.

 

 

Holy barf emoji...that would totally be a Jason Botterill trade though.

[OhMyDahlin]

19 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Maybe it’s time to think about trading our number one pick this year for a solid ready to contribute player 

I know we say it every year, but they really shouldn't trade their pick this year.

We're guaranteed  one of Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, Perfetti, Holtz or Raymond...and we desperately need a prospect of that caliber, especially a goal-scoring winger.

[NAF]

2 hours ago, OhMyDahlin said:

Holy barf emoji...that would totally be a Jason Botterill trade though.

Why? Mittelstadt has been a disaster, and is quickly entering bust territory. People keep saying to just wait, but "late bloomers" like Nino Neiderriter are the exception, not the rule. I'd rather have Puljujarvi, who:

a) is the same age as Mittelstadt

b) suffered as result of garbage management in Edmonton

c) is a RW (which the Sabres need)

d) Just put up 53 pts in 56 games in Finland

[Ducky]

Trading Mitts for Puljujarvi would be a mistake in my opinion.

[LabattBlue]

Would Anaheim take back Montour for Henrique and retain some of his salary? ?

[freester]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Would Anaheim take back Montour for Henrique and retain some of his salary? ?

I doubt they would retain but I would do that trade straight up

[Thorner]

On 5/23/2020 at 7:53 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

We aren't getting any of the those players except maybe Domi, maybe.

Truth be told we don't need any of those players long-term.  For cap reasons we really need a bridge player until Mitts, Cozens or even this year's pick are ready for the job.  Also guys like Barzal, Dubios and Cirelli aren't being moved.  

Of course we do. Whether that comes in the form of them, or Cozens developing into them, we definitely need it. We can't just ASSUME that's what Cozens is going to be. We've been down this road. 

[Thorner]

11 hours ago, Weave said:

Yup.  This team can’t afford to write anyone in.  We don’t need an interim 2C.  We need a 2C.  And then we’ll deal with having two 2Cs on the roster if it actually proves to be an issue somewhere down the road.

Exactly. 

7 hours ago, OhMyDahlin said:

I know we say it every year, but they really shouldn't trade their pick this year.

We're guaranteed  one of Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, Perfetti, Holtz or Raymond...and we desperately need a prospect of that caliber, especially a goal-scoring winger.

Every single year we are "guaranteed one of". If i can trade the pick for a bonafide 2C, the pick is out the door yesterday. 

[LGR4GM]

19 hours ago, OhMyDahlin said:

I know we say it every year, but they really shouldn't trade their pick this year.

We're guaranteed  one of Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, Perfetti, Holtz or Raymond...and we desperately need a prospect of that caliber, especially a goal-scoring winger.

Let me tell you about Seth Jarvis... 

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 5/24/2020 at 9:17 AM, LGR4GM said:

Mitts is problem isn't physical maturity. His problem is he has to learn how to play hockey instead of the dipsy doodle crap and slow reaction to things he was trying for 2 years because Botterill was too dumb to recognize he clearly wasn't NHL ready. It isn't his body, it is learning how to play the game at a higher level that Mitts lacks. 

Oh goody... another left wing candidate. Don't have any of those lying around. 

Actually we don’t.  Skinner and VO are 1 and 2,  who is 3 after MoJo’s contract expires? 

Edited May 25, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[JimS]

On 5/23/2020 at 4:21 PM, Tondas said:

First, welcome Jim.  I agree.  It is the duty and obligation of every GM to use every tool available to make the team better. To not do that is grounds for dismissal.  The players union AND management agreed to the offer sheet process.  Use it.  As a GM, you're not being a dick, you're being smart, and most important, you're doing your job.

Thank you. I've been here awhile, I just don't say much. ?

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually we don’t.  Skinner and VO are 1 and 2,  who is 3 after MoJo’s contract expires? 

Kahun.  Possibly Pekar.  Your on his bandwagon no?  And don’t forget the increasing possibility of Lafreniere. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

Kahun.  Possibly Pekar.  Your on his bandwagon no?  And don’t forget the increasing possibility of Lafreniere. 

Kahun is 2 RW for now.  Pekar is going to need at least 2 years in the AHL and is most likely a 4th energy player with 3rd line upside.  

Hopefully we'll get another Cozens caliber player in the draft, but he'll need a minimum of a year after the draft before he is NHL ready.

[sabresparaavida]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:43 PM, nfreeman said:

@dudacek -- I'm curious as to the sources regarding Monahan.  It seems impossible that Calgary would trade him. 

I realize that many may not believe me, and thats fine. I heard from a somewhat connected source that the Sabres were in talks with Calgary for a deal that would send Risto and Larsson for Monahan and Bennet. Jbotts was trying to get it down to just Risto for Monahan. Fwiw, I also heard there were talks of Mccabe and Larsson for Trochek about a week before the Trochek rumors started flying. I was asked to keep it hushed before the deadline.