Targeting a 2C

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Maybe.  A Left shot on the RW has the advantage of his shot closer to the middle of the ice and the disadvantage of their stick on the backhand near the boards.

Vanek was very successful as a right shot on the left wing.

Many coaches had interesting philosophies on handedness.

Fred Shero believed defencemen and checking lines wingers had to play on the same side as their shot to dig pucks off the boards to clear the zone quickly.  ("When in doubt, bank it out.")

Al Arbour played forwards on their off-wing in the offencive zone but on their normal wing in the defencive zone.

Lindy Ruff used to mess with goalies' heads by having an all LH PP and an all RH PP.  Centres moved to wing depending on their shot and usage.

In 1972-3, the Sabres had only 2 RH shot wingers for part of the year.  So the French Connection and the Luce line got them since they got the most ice time.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Marvin, Sabres Fan

[Drag0nDan]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:00 PM, freester said:

I’m sure that’s Botterils plan but I have not seen enough of Kahun to call him a 2nd line player. 

Yeah - midseason trades are always a question mark.  Takes time to integrate, and you don't have camp to like truly generate some consistent chemistry.

[WildCard]

Now the clock is ticking in earnest. Let's see what you can do, Adams

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Now the clock is ticking in earnest. Let's see what you can do, Adams

I won't hold my breath for anything to happen real soon.

When is the damn offseason anyway?

[WildCard]

Just now, New Scotland (NS) said:

I won't hold my breath for anything to happen real soon.

When is the damn offseason anyway?

For us? About a decade and counting at this point

[French Collection]

Let’s revive the Anthony Cirelli talk.

I know he would be pricey but why not aim high. Tampa will probably be in cap hell and lots of their guys have no trade clauses so you never know.

Another early playoff exit could force their management to part with players. Everyone seems to rave about Stevie Y building that team and he did assemble a Strong group but he left before the consequences of having to deal with handing out NTCs like candy are a real problem.

[WildCard]

I can't picture him wanting to come here

[tom webster]

4 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Let’s revive the Anthony Cirelli talk.

I know he would be pricey but why not aim high. Tampa will probably be in cap hell and lots of their guys have no trade clauses so you never know.

Another early playoff exit could force their management to part with players. Everyone seems to rave about Stevie Y building that team and he did assemble a Strong group but he left before the consequences of having to deal with handing out NTCs like candy are a real problem.

Pretty much agree with this except, NTC’s were a by product of pushing the no tax thing. You can’t convince a guy to take less because of state taxes and then not give him a NTC.

[Thorner]

Adams' off season will be judged primarily on this. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Adams' off season will be judged primarily on this. 

This could be a pipe dream at this point.  

One of the offshoots of this cost containment could be becoming a budget team and therefore our internal cap could be 75 mill.  There goes the money for the bridge 2c without dumping two starting D.

[Thorner]

44 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This could be a pipe dream at this point.  

One of the offshoots of this cost containment could be becoming a budget team and therefore our internal cap could be 75 mill.  There goes the money for the bridge 2c without dumping two starting D.

Wait, so we can acquire a 2C, the most important piece we need, all while also getting the benefits of addition by subtraction by trading Risto, who doesn't even want to be here? Sign me up. 

- - - 

I don't really want to argue about Risto again. Point being, they have the resources to make it happen, and the budget team thing is speculation anyways. If they truly are serious about winning, I don't think they have a choice but to find a way to bring in that 2C. 

I don't think it's possible for Adams to be considered to have had a successful off season without that move. It has to be a bare minimum expectation.  

- - - 

Totally off topic...does anyone else ever forget and then find it slightly weird when they see that the majority of people browsing the forum are Guests? Just the idea that many are reading who aren't saying anything. I'd like to know what they have to say. I remember when I first joined after reading for so long, it felt like a 4th wall break when someone would respond to me lol. Good day, to any Guest who stumbles upon this rambling. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This could be a pipe dream at this point.  

One of the offshoots of this cost containment could be becoming a budget team and therefore our internal cap could be 75 mill.  There goes the money for the bridge 2c without dumping two starting D.

The cuts off the ice certainly raise that concern, but there has been nothing said yet to indicate the team won’t be a cap team on the ice. Elliotte Friedman was pretty confident the Pegulas want to win and will continue to spend on players.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

The cuts off the ice certainly raise that concern, but there has been nothing said yet to indicate the team won’t be a cap team on the ice. Elliotte Friedman was pretty confident the Pegulas want to win and will continue to spend on players.

The key word is "yet."  At this point nothing either Pegula says has any weight with me.  Nothing.  

It's funny, my reaction to this could have been completely different.  

1) They do the cuts, but hire an experienced GM with Adams as his Ast

or

2) They do the cuts, and state they are going to do a real GM search looking at both external and internal candidates, but we are promoting RK to interim GM until the search is concluded.  

Those would have been professional and intelligent response to their consultant's report.  However they choose option C, hire Adams as GM.

None of my venom is to say that Adams might become a competent or even good GM some day, but there is no way he is that right now and this is the most important off-season for this team in a decade. 

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

None of my venom is to say that Adams might become a competent or even good GM some day, but there is no way he is that right now and this is the most important off-season for this team in a decade. 

There is no way that you can know this to be true.  How could you possibly?  Maybe he will be good, maybe he won’t, but I’m positive that none of us know for sure yet.

[inkman]

12 hours ago, Thorny said:

Adams' off season will be judged primarily on this. 

Prepare to be let down 

[inkman]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

The cuts off the ice certainly raise that concern, but there has been nothing said yet to indicate the team won’t be a cap team on the ice. Elliotte Friedman was pretty confident the Pegulas want to win and will continue to spend on players.

I think they are going to have an internal cap.  We are about to begin (continue?) a very dark era for the Buffalo Sabres.  Maybe I'll root for Winnipeg.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 hours ago, Curt said:

There is no way that you can know this to be true.  How could you possibly?  Maybe he will be good, maybe he won’t, but I’m positive that none of us know for sure yet.

Sure we do.  Who was ever good at their job day one without training and/or mentoring?  What trades has he every made? What professional roster has he ever created? What free agent has he ever signed? What draft has he ever prepared for? Etc...  

He was dropped into the deep end of the pool without so much as stereo manual written in Chinese to guide him.  

I’ve loved this team since I went to my first game in Season 1.  I’ll see how they do this off-season,  but no 2c and few stupid moves and I’m done.  

[nfreeman]

12 hours ago, Thorny said:

I don't really want to argue about Risto again. Point being, they have the resources to make it happen, and the budget team thing is speculation anyways. If they truly are serious about winning, I don't think they have a choice but to find a way to bring in that 2C. 

I don't think it's possible for Adams to be considered to have had a successful off season without that move. It has to be a bare minimum expectation. 

A goaltending upgrade is also part of the bare minimum IMHO.

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Sure we do.  Who was ever good at their job day one without training and/or mentoring?  What trades has he every made? What professional roster has he ever created? What free agent has he ever signed? What draft has he ever prepared for? Etc...  

He was dropped into the deep end of the pool without so much as stereo manual written in Chinese to guide him.  

I’ve loved this team since I went to my first game in Season 1.  I’ll see how they do this off-season,  but no 2c and few stupid moves and I’m done.  

Oh, ok.  Then no one can possibly be a good GM on day one.  So, yes, if you want to look at it that way, you are right.  Who on their first day of a new job, at a new company is good at that job???

I agree that Adams doesn’t have the ideal experience that you would want in a GM candidate, and I agree that it’s likely that he has some learning to do.  However, how could I possibly know for sure if he is going to be a good GM over the next year?  I can’t know, I can suspect, but I can’t know.

Adams at least should be intimately knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Buffalo Sabres.  Hopefully that means he has a good plan to fix things.

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Sure we do.  Who was ever good at their job day one without training and/or mentoring?  What trades has he every made? What professional roster has he ever created? What free agent has he ever signed? What draft has he ever prepared for? Etc...  

He was dropped into the deep end of the pool without so much as stereo manual written in Chinese to guide him.  

I’ve loved this team since I went to my first game in Season 1.  I’ll see how they do this off-season,  but no 2c and few stupid moves and I’m done.  

So you’re planning on holding Adams to a much higher standard than you ever held Botterill? ?

[GASabresIUFAN]

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

44 minutes ago, Curt said:

Oh, ok.  Then no one can possibly be a good GM on day one.  So, yes, if you want to look at it that way, you are right.  Who on their first day of a new job, at a new company is good at that job???

I agree that Adams doesn’t have the ideal experience that you would want in a GM candidate, and I agree that it’s likely that he has some learning to do.  However, how could I possibly know for sure if he is going to be a good GM over the next year?  I can’t know, I can suspect, but I can’t know.

Adams at least should be intimately knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Buffalo Sabres.  Hopefully that means he has a good plan to fix things.

Plenty of people have been good GMs in their 1st year, but all had at least some training and mentoring in the job.  Adams has had none.  Even Stevie Y spent 4 years working with team Canada building rosters in addition to his work with the Red Wings before becoming a GM.  He did an excellent job although TB is up against it this off-season because of all the NTC contracts he gave out.

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So you’re planning on holding Adams to a much higher standard than you ever held Botterill? ?

Yes and no. I’m really holding the Pegulas to account.  They have had a decade to figure this out and haven’t.  Putting a hockey rink manager in charge is kind of the last straw.  They have lost all benefit of the doubt.  I think fixing the largest glaring hole on the roster seems like a pretty good place to start to determine if Adams has any chance of succeeding in his new role.  

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[bob_sauve28]

54 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

A goaltending upgrade is also part of the bare minimum IMHO.

You mean having a goalie that literally can't follow the puck is a bad thing? 

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, nfreeman said:

A goaltending upgrade is also part of the bare minimum IMHO.

Yep. And beyond the bare minimum, he's got a lot of other stuff to do, too. Address D imbalance, contracts namely Reinhart, additional forward depth...I believe the Pegulas when they say everything being pushed back changed things. Adams needs a LONG offseason and he'll get one. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Thorny

[LabattBlue]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

...I believe the Pegulas when they say everything being pushed back changed things. Adams needs a LONG offseason and he'll get one. 

Allow me to present the glass half empty point of view...the more time they have to address things, the better chance they have of screwing it up. ???

[IKnowPhysics]

I agree with the premise that the team needs secondary scoring after the top line.  NHL equivalency gives a little bit of data in which to root some obvious opinions.

Casey Mittelstadt as a 2C:

Casey put up 30 points in 34 games in his final season at Minnesota.  This yields an NHLe of 24 points.  Casey put up 25 points in 77 games (equivalent to 26pts in 82 games) in his first full season as a Sabre, so this was pretty spot on.  This past year, his development stalled, as he put up 9 points in 31 games (equivalent to 24pts in 82 games) before being sent down and recording 25 points in 36 AHL games (NHLe of 28pts).

The troubling part of all this is that, according to the player usage charts, he was by far the most sheltered player on the team for these two years.  He has not met the production expected of a top six forward and he has not faced the quality of competition that a top six forward would.

 

Dylan Cozens as a 2C:

Dylan put up 85 points in 51 games in the WHL this year (up from 84pts in 68 games last year).  This gives an NHLe of 41 points in 82 games.  41 points would have been good enough for fourth among Sabres forwards this year, if an 82 game season were played, behind EIchel, Reinhart, and Olofsson (and tied with Johansson).

It's a reasonable assertion that the team's secondary scoring was insufficient, if not grossly insufficient.  After Olofsson-Eichel--Reinhart's combined 78 goals, all other Sabre forwards combined for only 88 goals.  While Cozens' NHLe of 41 points would be sufficient to match the production of Johansson, that level of production is insufficient.  Cozens can step onto the team and make an impact next year, but if the Sabres want to improve secondary scoring, Cozens should not be the 2C without further development.