True or false: Risto was much improved under Ralph?

[dudacek]

According to Bill Hoppe and the analysts he talked to, he was.

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-succeeded-in-helping-rasmus-ristolainen-transform-game-this-season/

Your thoughts?

[SwampD]

Yep.

5th coach in 7 years, though,... just, ugh.

[Pimlach]

Yes.  He played better this past season.   i still think he can be a beast in the right situation.

 

When it comes to trading him or Montour for help at forward  I vote to trade Montour.   i think Risto is better and has more upside still. 

[carpandean]

I'd agree that he was better this year.  Don't know if that's because of, in spite of or regardless of the coach.

 

[darksabre]

He was definitely better this year. I don't know what it means though.

Let's talk again when we have a forward corps that belongs in the NHL. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Yes.  He played better this past season.   i still think he can be a beast in the right situation.

 

When it comes to trading him or Montour for help at forward  I vote to trade Montour.   i think Risto is better and has more upside still. 

You think a soon to be 26 year old with 7 NHL seasons of experience has some magical upside somewhere? He is what he is. The only real question is using him effectively. 

[Eleven]

45 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You think a soon to be 26 year old with 7 NHL seasons of experience has some magical upside somewhere? He is what he is. The only real question is using him effectively. 

That is right around the same point in Chara's career where he started to bloom.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

You think a soon to be 26 year old with 7 NHL seasons of experience has some magical upside somewhere? He is what he is. The only real question is using him effectively. 

26 is where I start evaluating defensemen. He has yet to be “what he is.”

[LGR4GM]

49 minutes ago, Eleven said:

That is right around the same point in Chara's career where he started to bloom.

 

14 minutes ago, SwampD said:

26 is where I start evaluating defensemen. He has yet to be “what he is.”

I wish you luck then. Risto is who he is. He's a 2nd pairing defender that lacks the high end hockey IQ to be more. He'll continue to go up and down each season because sometimes his coverage is good some times bad. 

Risto is best when utilized correctly which involves limiting his responsibilities and making it clear how he should exit the zone. Idk what people think he is going to suddenly become. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by LGR4GM

[SwampD]

37 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I wish you luck then. Risto is who he is. He's a 2nd pairing defender that lacks the high end hockey IQ to be more. He'll continue to go up and down each season because sometimes his coverage is good some times bad. 

Risto is best when utilized correctly which involves limiting his responsibilities and making it clear how he should exit the zone. Idk what people think he is going to suddenly become. 

You act like he is some dolt incapable of learning. Late twenties/early thirties is when defensemen are who they are.

Like Seinfeld said, I said it twice so you know I'm right.

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, SwampD said:

You act like he is some dolt incapable of learning. Late twenties/early thirties is when defensemen are who they are.

Like Seinfeld said, I said it twice so you know I'm right.

It isn't when they have the experience Risto does. 

The list of modern NHL defenders who changed in their early 30's has to be like what? 1 guy? Most players start to decline at 28/29 and that does include defenders. 7 years of NHL experience but now he will suddenly learn a new trick? Again, if he is utilized correctly than he will be fine but he is fundamentally the player he is going to be. 

[darksabre]

Chara comparisons make me cringe. We don't even have fancy stats that go back far enough to really look at what Chara was at 25. His Corsi numbers are really darn good at 30+, but we don't have any idea what he looked like before that since the league didn't track that kinda stuff.

Risto has never had numbers like Chara. If he suddenly turns a corner on that then fine, but the comparison always irks me.

[dudacek]

I don’t expect Risto to get much better than he was this year, I just think that he’s pretty good already.
He’s a nasty defenceman who can eat minutes and put up 40 points and wants to make a difference. He also lacks poise and is guilty of forcing things and of trying to do too much.

The player we saw this year Is a solid 2/3 NHL defenceman, and should continue to be that going forward, so long as he’s properly used and slotted.

Edited May 19, 2020 by dudacek

[Kruppstahl]

His offensive stats mostly show regression under Ralph; many of his defensive stats improved.

That probably reflects sheltered usage more than improvement of the player, though he was not sheltered nearly as much as he should have been.

His hockey IQ remains low.

I do love how he enjoys hitting and actually looks to lay people out.  That is increasingly rare in the league and almost non-existence on the current Sabres lineup.

He is also a big, physical force that doesn't get moved off the puck very often.

 

 

 

 

 

[Weave]

I want to know how people are measuring hockey IQ.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I wish you luck then. Risto is who he is. He's a 2nd pairing defender that lacks the high end hockey IQ to be more. He'll continue to go up and down each season because sometimes his coverage is good some times bad. 

Risto is best when utilized correctly which involves limiting his responsibilities and making it clear how he should exit the zone. Idk what people think he is going to suddenly become. 

Shouldn't it be Ristolainen who is the beneficiary of your largesse of luck-wishing?  We're all rooting for the same team here!

[LTS]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

I want to know how people are measuring hockey IQ.

Pretty sure the established formula is (compete/toughness) * number of remaining teeth.

 

[Eleven]

Just now, LTS said:

Pretty sure the established formula is (compete/toughness) * number of remaining teeth.

 

That's pre-analytics, though.  You have to Fenwick that number by the square root of defensive zone starts and then re-reticulate it across the cosine of Corsi times WAR.

[inkman]

Where da poll at? 

[Eleven]

46 minutes ago, darksabre said:

We don't even have fancy stats that go back far enough to really look at what Chara was at 25.

We don't need them if we remember what his play was like with the Isles and during his earlier years in Ottawa.  And I do remember!

[SwampD]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t expect Risto to get much better than he was this year, I just think that he’s pretty good already.
He’s a nasty defenceman who can eat minutes and put up 40 points and wants to make a difference. He also lacks poise and is guilty of forcing things and of trying to do too much.

The player we saw this year Is a solid 2/3 NHL defenceman, and should continue to be that going forward, so long as he’s properly used and slotted.

All things that improve in your L20s/E30s.

[darksabre]

Just now, Eleven said:

We don't need them if we remember what his play was like with the Isles and during his earlier years in Ottawa.  And I do remember!

I don't remember much about Chara during that time, but the consensus seems to be that he was the opposite of Risto: good defensively, but late in developing his offensive game. I mean, he was really good by the time he left Ottawa in free agency.

[Eleven]

25 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I don't remember much about Chara during that time, but the consensus seems to be that he was the opposite of Risto: good defensively, but late in developing his offensive game. I mean, he was really good by the time he left Ottawa in free agency.

I remember plenty of brain farts.  We all knew he was going to grow into something, but I don't think we all knew he was going to be as great as he has become.  I certainly didn't think so.

[SwampD]

We also don't need Risto to be Chara in order to be grateful he's on the team.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't when they have the experience Risto does. 

The list of modern NHL defenders who changed in their early 30's has to be like what? 1 guy? Most players start to decline at 28/29 and that does include defenders. 7 years of NHL experience but now he will suddenly learn a new trick? Again, if he is utilized correctly than he will be fine but he is fundamentally the player he is going to be. 

I generally agree with this although there are always outliers.

However, what happens more often is that players learn what they are and accept what they are and their roles within the team. Johan Larsson  is a perfect example. He was a spoiled selfish player when he got here and thought he was entitled and it was beneath him to play with what he considered lesser talents. Now he is a still young veteran who could be a crucial piece on a contender, a third or fourth liner, a penalty killer, a guy who can spell your top guys without looking out of place.