Rasmus Dahlin at 20

[Curt]

Hedman wasn’t anywhere close to the player he currently is until he was like 23 though.  D often take time to mature.  Plus those PP player in TB are so good and have been playing together so long that they really have it down to a science.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Drag0nDan said:

I always hear the hedman comparisons, then when we play TB all i think is - wow that guy is just... good. He always seems to be making the right plays, great skater, tape to tape passing, and just takes the puck away consistently.  Dahlin's improved as the PP quarterback but hedmans on another level at getting your shooters the puck, in space, in the right place for a one-timer.

Idk, Dahlin made some unbelievable passes this year. Some of his no look tape to tape stuff was incredible. 

[LTS]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Idk, Dahlin made some unbelievable passes this year. Some of his no look tape to tape stuff was incredible. 

Yes.  People swoon over Makar, and he's good, but it helps when the opposition has to worry about the forwards that Colorado has.  They can't pressure the D as much as they'd like without worrying about a simple flip pass setting loose a serious rush.

The Sabres don't carry that same threat.... Dahlin is good.. exceptionally good.  But even the best D isn't going to dominate a game without the team having some other threats on the ice to occupy the opposition.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, LTS said:

Yes.  People swoon over Makar, and he's good, but it helps when the opposition has to worry about the forwards that Colorado has.  They can't pressure the D as much as they'd like without worrying about a simple flip pass setting loose a serious rush.

The Sabres don't carry that same threat.... Dahlin is good.. exceptionally good.  But even the best D isn't going to dominate a game without the team having some other threats on the ice to occupy the opposition.

There's a lot of evidence that Dahlin lacked confidence for the early part of the season and then started to get it back as we progressed. 

Keep in mind that Makar is a 1.5 years older than Dahlin. Makar is October 98 versus April 2000 for Dahlin. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Idk, Dahlin made some unbelievable passes this year. Some of his no look tape to tape stuff was incredible. 

I rewatched part of that 3-2 loss in Colorado recently. Ralph had Dahlin and Eichel our together and the body control those two showed making and receiving passes was stunning. Not just the soft-touch no-look stuff, but just how they always have their sticks positioned and their bodies aligned for maximum protection and deception to set up their next moves.

Edited June 26, 2020 by dudacek

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

There's a lot of evidence that Dahlin lacked confidence for the early part of the season and then started to get it back as we progressed. 

Keep in mind that Makar is a 1.5 years older than Dahlin. Makar is October 98 versus April 2000 for Dahlin. 

Which simply shows that Dahlin's human after all.  It is the EXTREMELY rare player that doesn't have any sophomore slump as he gets asked to round out his game rather than just concentrating on those things that got him to the NHL.

Dahlin struggled early but picked it up as the season went on. He & the Sabres will be better for it LT.

Will be interested to see when Krueger starts to trust him on the PK.  Adding that, improved play against odd man rushes, & a harder shot will give the kid a complete tool kit.  It's close to full now & he still won't be able to legally buy a drink after a game this season unless the Sabres go on a long run (or the season is delayed appreciably).

[mjd1001]

I want Dahlin to be good enough next year to be getting 24 minutes per game of ice time.

Don't waste any of that on the Penalty kill though. #1 PP unit..and about 19-20 mins per game even strength.

 

[Taro T]

35 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I want Dahlin to be good enough next year to be getting 24 minutes per game of ice time.

Don't waste any of that on the Penalty kill though. #1 PP unit..and about 19-20 mins per game even strength.

 

Whether he should be playing on the PK will be highly dependent on what move(s) get made.  If Ristolainen is gone, we're likely going to want him on the PK as he'll be the 2nd most experienced LHD on the roster & they very likely won't be having Montour typically playing on the left.

If McCabe is gone, they'll almost definitely want him on the PK.

No major moves & he might still be PK free, though it's probably better he start to at least get some time there.

[nfreeman]

I'm with @mjd1001 on the PK issue -- save the Ferrari for the open road.

[Taro T]

54 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'm with @mjd1001 on the PK issue -- save the Ferrari for the open road.

Yeah, why would you want Dahlin to add PK to his tool box?

They've never been down late in a game killing a penalty & needing a goal.  Would really stink if we could trust him enough out there 4v5 to be able to feed the puck to Eichel for a rush.  And then maybe even finish if off.

Sorry, he needs to add that to the tool kit to reach the levels we believe he can & he might as well learn to do it sooner than later.  Hopefully, it makes sense to get him out there this year.  (Obviously, don't play him there if it costs the team games & don't make him their #1; but he was the 6.  He needs to be at least 5 & ideally 4.)

[nfreeman]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yeah, why would you want Dahlin to add PK to his tool box?

They've never been down late in a game killing a penalty & needing a goal.  Would really stink if we could trust him enough out there 4v5 to be able to feed the puck to Eichel for a rush.  And then maybe even finish if off.

Sorry, he needs to add that to the tool kit to reach the levels we believe he can & he might as well learn to do it sooner than later.  Hopefully, it makes sense to get him out there this year.  (Obviously, don't play him there if it costs the team games & don't make him their #1; but he was the 6.  He needs to be at least 5 & ideally 4.)

Well, I agree that he should be able to kill penalties, and that he needs to play on the PK in order to learn that part of the game, but as a risk management matter I'd want his minutes in that role to be pretty limited.  I want to save most of his minutes for ES or PP.

[dudacek]

We need Joki and Dahlin to emerge as capable PKers in order to hit the projections we are placing on them.

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I rewatched part of that 3-2 loss in Colorado recently. Ralph had Dahlin and Eichel our together and the body control those two showed making and receiving passes was stunning. Not just the soft-touch no-look stuff, but just how they always have their sticks positioned and their bodies aligned for maximum protection and deception to set up their next moves.

Talk about dedication! Watching regular season losses.

 

[French Collection]

18 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I agree that he should be able to kill penalties, and that he needs to play on the PK in order to learn that part of the game, but as a risk management matter I'd want his minutes in that role to be pretty limited.  I want to save most of his minutes for ES or PP.

Higher risk of blocking a shot and getting hurt on the PK.

I’m OK if he does a bit of it if you have a PK Dman in the box or dead tired.

[Taro T]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I agree that he should be able to kill penalties, and that he needs to play on the PK in order to learn that part of the game, but as a risk management matter I'd want his minutes in that role to be pretty limited.  I want to save most of his minutes for ES or PP.

In what way does being the #4 PKer significantly impact his ice time at ES?

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Which simply shows that Dahlin's human after all.  It is the EXTREMELY rare player that doesn't have any sophomore slump as he gets asked to round out his game rather than just concentrating on those things that got him to the NHL.

Dahlin struggled early but picked it up as the season went on. He & the Sabres will be better for it LT.

Will be interested to see when Krueger starts to trust him on the PK.  Adding that, improved play against odd man rushes, & a harder shot will give the kid a complete tool kit.  It's close to full now & he still won't be able to legally buy a drink after a game this season unless the Sabres go on a long run (or the season is delayed appreciably).

There are no 19 year old sophomore defenders to even compare him to. He's not human, he's something else entirely. 

[LGR4GM]

To compare Dahlin to Makar, we would need to compare Dahlins 2020 season to Makars 2019 season. So we'll have to wait a year to see. 

One last Makar to Dahlin point to consider. Makar is only 5'11" and has been for what? 3-4 years at least. Dahlin is 6'3". Makar is physically matured. He will probably add some weight and muscle for sure but he spent 2 years in college where he could easily adapt his 5'11" frame. Dahlin is taller and it will take him just a hair longer to fill that out. We know he was light coming into his draft year. Dahlin was 6'2.75 inches tall and only 185lbs at the combine. He is now somewhere around 205lbs according to Elite which means that guy has been working to fill out his frame. Makar was 5'11" at the combine and 187 lbs. He is still listed at 187 pounds. I am just commenting that Dahlin hasn't reached the same physical level of maturity that Makar has. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

There are no 19 year old sophomore defenders to even compare him to. He's not human, he's something else entirely. 

No.  And that's the problem with saying he's not human.  People took great exception at the time to anybody pointing out that he was making mistakes even if they also said he was still doing a lot of stuff well.

It can & is true that he is both human & the best teenaged defenseman to play in the last 50 years.  But, though he is better than any that have come along in the last 50 at the same stage, he still has much room for improvement - thankfully.  

Fully expect that HE realizes he can be better & that he has been given an opportunity to be in very rarified company if he continues to grow & improve as he should.  But if he were to plateau where he is, he'd be good to very good but not all world & not even consistently in the Norris discussion.

And I fully expect him to get into that discussion within the next 2 seasons.  And he'll be there for a long time.  But he will have down moments, they just likely won't be as long as they are for most players.

The board now can allow itself to collectively admit he wasn't at his peak early in the season.  In the moment, that wasn't even majority sentiment much less near universal.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

No.  And that's the problem with saying he's not human.  People took great exception at the time to anybody pointing out that he was making mistakes even if they also said he was still doing a lot of stuff well.

It can & is true that he is both human & the best teenaged defenseman to play in the last 50 years.  But, though he is better than any that have come along in the last 50 at the same stage, he still has much room for improvement - thankfully.  

Fully expect that HE realizes he can be better & that he has been given an opportunity to be in very rarified company if he continues to grow & improve as he should.  But if he were to plateau where he is, he'd be good to very good but not all world & not even consistently in the Norris discussion.

And I fully expect him to get into that discussion within the next 2 seasons.  And he'll be there for a long time.  But he will have down moments, they just likely won't be as long as they are for most players.

The board now can allow itself to collectively admit he wasn't at his peak early in the season.  In the moment, that wasn't even majority sentiment much less near universal.

Did anyone else watch Dahlin’s year-ender and get the impression that he walked away from the season determined to be part of the solution? I liked the way he referenced Jack as someone he wants to emulate.

I hope the pressure he puts on himself is a positive and not something that wears him down.

Edited June 26, 2020 by dudacek

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Did anyone else watch Dahlin’s year-ended and get the impression that he walked away from the season determined to be part of the solution? I liked the way he referenced Jack as someone he wants to emulate.

I hope the pressure he puts on himself is a positive and not something that wears him down.

Didn't get a chance to watch it, but not at all surprised that was the take away.

You don't get to the level that Eichel & Dahlin reach without an innate drive that wears down many others.  The physical skills are only part of it; they need that drive to take it to the next level & they do.

[Randall Flagg]

Dahlin posted an Instagram story 4-6 weeks ago, playing tennis. It was hard to do a physique check because of his clothing, but if the development of his triceps are a proxy for his time in the gym, he's putting in some good work. 

[LGR4GM]

I was surprised to see elite prospects had Dahlin listed at 205lbs 

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I was surprised to see elite prospects had Dahlin listed at 205lbs 

I didn’t know Elite Prospects kept updating player information once a guy made the NHL.

[inkman]

Most posters are aware of my mixed feelings on Dahlin.  It just kinda sucks that a first overall pick doesn't necessarily mean overnight success.  We were all waiting with bated breath for him to hit the ice and all of a sudden the Sabres would be great.  It's just not how hockey works. 

Instead we have to rely on analytics and sublime play.  He's great. He'll get better.  I can't wait to see it.  

[Randall Flagg]

7 minutes ago, inkman said:

Most posters are aware of my mixed feelings on Dahlin.  It just kinda sucks that a first overall pick doesn't necessarily mean overnight success.  We were all waiting with bated breath for him to hit the ice and all of a sudden the Sabres would be great.  It's just not how hockey works. 

Instead we have to rely on analytics and sublime play.  He's great. He'll get better.  I can't wait to see it.  

You'll get that fix when we win Lafreniere tonight!