Building the best Sabres team ever

[Weave]

I almost selected Mogilny, and almost selected Foligno, but in the end Martin and Gare win out for me.

i think Foligno was more of an actual power forward than Gare, but Gare was tough enough, and more skilled.

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Wow I feel like we're missing some options here.  For needing a desperate goal, I might want Drury.  For a series against the Bruins or Flyers, I might want Mike Peca.

Different categories: Power forwards and goal scoring wingers here.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Martin and Gare and it was not even that close for me.

Next ...

Edited April 6, 2020 by New Scotland (NS)
... my spelling is not goodly atol

[Eleven]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Different categories: Power forwards and goal scoring wingers here.

Ok got it boss.

[French Collection]

Martin scored a lot for many years, Mogilny had only one amazing year.

Gare was small but had tons of grit while being a 50 goal guy.

[Tondas]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Wow I feel like we're missing some options here.  For needing a desperate goal, I might want Drury.  For a series against the Bruins or Flyers, I might want Mike Peca.

I think you're right on more options and categories..  My category for best pound-for-pound Sabre is Gare .  5'9" 175 pounds.  He could do it all, score, fight, hit, leadership, and be a pain.  Peca is in the conversation, but was never a 50 goal scorer like Gare.

[dudacek]

I’m taking Martin over Mogilny, but I’m really struggling over Foligno versus Gare. I’m thinking Danny was a better player, but Mike was very good, and I struggle with a 5’9” power forward.

I don’t remember Danny losing puck battles, but how much attention was a really paying? Was he like Marchand in this area (without the douchiness)?

Edited April 7, 2020 by dudacek

[Weave]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I’m taking Martin over Mogilny, but I’m really struggling over Foligno versus Gare. I’m thinking Danny was a better player, but Mike was very good, and I struggle with a 5’9” power forward.

I don’t remember Danny losing puck battles, but how much attention was a really paying? Was he like Marchand in this area (without the douchiness)?

Mike Foligno might be the only well skilled power forward this team has ever had.  Rick Vaive applies but the tenure was short.

I never really considered Andrechuck a power forward, but that might be my issue, not his.

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, Tondas said:

I think you're right on more options and categories..  My category for best pound-for-pound Sabre is Gare .  5'9" 175 pounds.  He could do it all, score, fight, hit, leadership, and be a pain.  Peca is in the conversation, but was never a 50 goal scorer like Gare.

Yeah but Peca could put people out of a game in a way Gare never could.

[nfreeman]

Rico and Gare.

Gare wasn't a power forward, but he was as tough as scoring forwards get, he was pretty fast, he could score in a number of different ways and he played with fire.  He would've given Lucic immediate dental surgery after Lucic hit Miller.  He was exactly the kind of guy who helps you win a playoff series against those MFs.

 

[dudacek]

Your power forward is Danny Gare and your goal scorer is Rick Martin, each by clear margins.

 

[dudacek]

You've picked a pair of sublime talents to anchor your first two lines at centre in Perreault and Hawerchuk

You've added Martin to bury their plays and Gare to do the same while creating space and havoc in the dirty areas of the ice.

But you need more: another dangerous bullet of secondary scoring in your offensive gun, and a winger who you can trust to do the right thing against the toughest threats from the other team.

Polls #5 and #6 will add two more forwards: our checker and our sniper.

Edited April 10, 2020 by dudacek

[Eleven]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Polls #5 and #6 will add two more forwards: our checker and our sniper.

Vanek was far more multi-dimensional than the other snipers, so I'm giving him the nod.

The second question was tougher.  I was able to boil it down to Ramsay and Hecht, but even that wasn't easy.  Each of those guys has something going for him; Brown could really hit, Grier had leadership ability, Seiling could settle down the pace of a game when needed.  But Ramsay and Hecht had all of those qualities.  Nostalgia won out, I guess, and I went with #10.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Eleven

[Weave]

Really wanted McKegney there but Vanek was the higher skilled scorer so went with TV.

As far as do everything goes, its Ramsay, and I don’t think its close.  Selke running in most years.  Put up points.  Played center and wing.  Durable AF.

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

Really wanted McKegney there but Vanek was the higher skilled scorer so went with TV.

Felt pretty much the same way.  I like McKegney, but Vanek was considerably more talented.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Eleven

[nfreeman]

Skinner and Rammer.

I understand why many will vote for Vanek, and he certainly was a gifted goalscorer.  But there was something seriously wrong with him that resulted in SEVEN teams not wanting to keep him around after he left Buffalo, and two teams (one of which was his Olympic team) publicly throwing him under the bus.

Skinner has his own issues, and had a down year this year, but is also a terrific goalscorer and I believe he will bounce back.

As for the checker, Rammer's resume is unparalleled.  Grier was my 2nd choice.

[dudacek]

Ramsay should be the second-most clearcut vote of the thread, IMO. He was among the best of all-time in this role.

But his dominance is a bit of a shame though, because the other four were very good hockey players. Always had a particular soft spot for Brown as an unsung hero in the unsung group of Hasek-era forwards.

 Vanek is the clear choice for me in the other group: most rounded, plus most-productive makes it pretty easy.

Curious to hear people’s thoughts on Miro. To me, he was the one who best fits the selfish/unreliable label that all five of these guys carry to a certain extent.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Good analysis in here.

The first question was harder for me.  Compelling arguements for all of them.

(EDIT TO ADD:  here you go @dudacek) ... In the end I went with Miro Satan for 2 reasons.  1.  He is Slovak, like me and in his prime I think he was the best pure goal scorer on that list.  I want Dale10 feeding him.  I could see 100 assists for Dale10 and 50+ goals for The Great Satan (you see what I did there?).

The second is very clear ... give me Rammer10 there.

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Ramsay should be the second-most clearcut vote of the thread, IMO. He was among the best of all-time in this role.

But his dominance is a bit of a shame though, because the other four were very good hockey players. Always had a particular soft spot for Brown as an unsung hero in the unsung group of Hasek-era forwards.

 Vanek is the clear choice for me in the other group: most rounded, plus most-productive makes it pretty easy.

Curious to hear people’s thoughts on Miro. To me, he was the one who best fits the selfish/unreliable label that all five of these guys carry to a certain extent.

Brown did score that fantasic goal against the Leafs in Game 5 that propelled tham to the final.

Edited April 10, 2020 by New Scotland (NS)
stuff ...

[#freejame]

Is anyone able to get contract information for the old players? Enough that we would be able to see % of total team salary? Would be fun to see how cap compliant this team ended up. 

[Randall Flagg]

Nobody can know for sure, but I'm more inclined to think that Vanek's late-career bouncing around was a function of his abilities. He could still score, but was simply horrendous defensively, during his last few stops. Teams thought they could mitigate the latter for more of the former, giving him one year deals to test it out, and would find it not worth further investment (in Detroit and Florida, they wound up having similar issues/characteristics at the team level, needing immediate fixing). 

I always wished 2013 Vanek could score like 2007 Vanek, and that 2007 Vanek had the vision and playmaking of 2013 Vanek

I can't vote in the poll because in every instance there are multiple players I know nothing about 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

Craig Ramsay is your checking winger but a nearly-unanimous margin. Thomas Vanek is the man you want to lean on to provide secondary scoring.

 

 

To round out our offensive depth, we're voting for a pair of more arbitrary roles, that I'm calling the "style" and the "substance."

The style is that special but erratic talent, who doesn't always get it done, and often leaves you frustrated, but makes up for it by those dazzling highlight-reel moments of sheer artistry.

The substance is his alter-ego: he doesn't have much flash and he's not a guy you want in the spotlight, but he does produce, thanks to an understated skill level and a great mind for the game.

Edited April 12, 2020 by dudacek

[Sabres Fan in NS]

D. Roy in his prime was a point a game guy.  So, in spite of all the wrangling on here about him he's my guy.  For that 1, or 2, year window for the cup.

Samson is my guy.  I am a Samson guy.

[Weave]

Connolly and Barnes for me.  Connolly was the most talented of the bunch, and most versatile in that he’s a natural center.

Stu was just rock solid.  Played the game at a high level at both ends of the ice.  And you cant have too many centers.

[Weave]

Would have liked more eras represented in that first group.  Mike Foligno drove Bowman nuts with his flighty play and would have fit there.  Or Christian Ruutu, Donald Audette, etc.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

Would have liked more eras represented in that first group.  Mike Foligno drove Bowman nuts with his flighty play and would have fit there.  Or Christian Ruutu, Donald Audette, etc.

Ruuttu would have fit; I was conscious of the lack of eras there, but wasn’t sure how to address that. Foligno and Audette were in other categories. Probably could have slotted players into multiple categories, but I didn’t consider that when I drew it up.