OK folks, let's step it up. If you could get a Lindros-like haul for EICHEL, would you?

[Stoner]

  On 4/3/2020 at 8:55 PM, Weave said:

What if we could plug every hole (including 1C) by moving him?  And those holes would only get get plugged over the course of an additional 2+ seasons any other way?

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Or not at all, if GMJaBo is retained.

[Thorner]

  On 4/3/2020 at 10:55 PM, Neo said:

I think Joe Sakic was a fantastic hockey player.   One of my all time favorites.  I would mention him and Forsberg in the same sentence.  One game, I take Forsberg.   If I lost the coin flip and got Sakic, I’d not lose a minute’s sleep.  Two greats.

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Doesn't Sakic lead the list of all-time playoff OT goals? Sakic was a bigger one-game player. If clutch exists, no one was more clutch. I still take Sakic. 

[Neo]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:05 PM, Thorny said:

Doesn't Sakic lead the list of all-time playoff OT goals? Sakic was a bigger one-game player. If clutch exists, no one was more clutch. I still take Sakic. 

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You know, you could be exactly right with your decision.   I love Sakic.   We are discussing gemstones.

[#freejame]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:05 PM, Thorny said:

Doesn't Sakic lead the list of all-time playoff OT goals? Sakic was a bigger one-game player. If clutch exists, no one was more clutch. I still take Sakic. 

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He also is one off the record for goals in a post season with I think 18

[dudacek]

  On 4/3/2020 at 9:45 PM, #freejame said:

Please explain this. Joe Sakic is considered by most one of the best centers of all time. He’s 8th all-time in points, possesses the great wrist shot ever, and along with Yzerman is arguably the greatest leader of all time. Joe Sakic is a hockey treasure whereas Eric Lindros is a hockey what if. Forsberg did neat things, but he’s not Joe Sakic, not even close. 

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My opinion is largely what Neo says, based on Foppa’s warrior mentality.

Joe was more durable and therefore has the better career numbers. Peter was as skilled, but also had the physical game Joe lacked,

To counter @Thornys 96 stats, in 02 Forsberg 27 to Sakic 19. Their playoff PPG is similar, their regular season PPG is similar. Statements like “Joe was the heart and soul” when an equally compelling case could be made for Peter fed my “media creation” comment, when combined with my perception that Canadians think Joe is better while Swedes think Peter is better.

Edited April 3, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:16 PM, Neo said:

You know, you could be exactly right with your decision.   I love Sakic.   We are discussing gemstones.

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You also forget I'm biased because of that huge goal he scored in the 2002 Olympics, gold medal game vs USA ?

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:18 PM, dudacek said:

My opinion is largely what Neo says, based on Foppa’s warrior mentality.

Joe was more durable and therefore has the better career numbers. Peter was as skilled, but also had the physical game Joe lacked,

To counter @Thornys 96 stats, in 02 Forsberg 27 to Sakic 19. Their playoff PPG is similar, their regular season PPG is similar. Statements like “Joe was the heart and soul” when an equally compelling case could be made for Peter fed my “media creation” comment, when combined with my perception that Canadians think Joe is better while Swedes think Peter is better.

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Not really, Sakic was the captain for a reason. There's weight on that bone, whereas the media creation comment I don't think is fair. Forsberg IS underrated, but the rub is that Sakic was, too. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Thorny

[Neo]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:19 PM, Thorny said:

You also forget I'm biased because of that huge goal he scored in the 2002 Olympics, gold medal game vs USA ?

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I, too, love that goal!  Sakic was much more of a “favorite” of mine.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Neo

[Thorner]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:20 PM, Neo said:

I, too, love that goal!  

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Bob Cole's call makes it. "They're gonna get a break here, and it's gonna be Joooooe Sakiccc.......SCORES! Gggggeeeeeeeeo! Sakic!"

[dudacek]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:19 PM, Thorny said:

Not really, Sakic was the captain for a reason. 

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I’ll give you that, but it’s two reasons actually.

Sakic was older, and was the lone star of a bad team, named Captain before Forsberg arrived .

Also, the NHL in that era was notably xenophobic against Euro captains.

[Thorner]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:23 PM, dudacek said:

I’ll give you that, but it’s two reasons actually.

Sakic was older, and was the lone star of a bad team, named Captain before Forsberg arrived .

Also, the NHL in that era was notably xenophobic against Euro captains.

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That's fair. I think I just took issue with the wording of your original statement: "Sakic over Forsberg was Canadian media/fandom creation IMO, just like Roy or Brodeur over Dom."

I'm sure some Canadian bias fed in, but you worded that too absolutely. A valid argument can be made that Sakic was better, full stop, it doesn't require a Canadian/Canadian media bias. 

Those lists that had Toews ahead of Malkin - THAT'S Canadian bias. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Thorny

[Neo]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:23 PM, Thorny said:

Bob Cole's call makes it. "They're gonna get a break here, and it's gonna be Joooooe Sakiccc.......SCORES! Gggggeeeeeeeeo! Sakic!"

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https://youtu.be/wiu1S70O6XU

 

Jeeeeoe!

Edited April 3, 2020 by Neo

[dudacek]

Look, I love Joe Sakic; he’s one of the all-time greats.

From the point of view of a player that matched my personal aesthetic of the way the game should be played, only Bobby Orr exceeded Forsberg.

(And to be clear, I’m not saying Forsberg’s the second best player of all time)

Edited April 3, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:28 PM, dudacek said:

Look, I love Joe Sakic; he’s one of the all-time greats.

From the point of view of a player that matched my personal aesthetic of the way the game should be played, only Bobby Orr exceeded Forsberg.

(And to be clear, I’m not saying he’s the second best player of all time)

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And I love Forsberg. People are probably aware I love Sid, and Forsberg is the closest stylistic comparable, to me. I've long compared the two. Legs like tree trunks. Oh, the power. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

On a side note, I don't think that 2000-2001 Avs team gets enough credit in "all-time teams" talk. 

They won the cup against a near-dynastic Devils team, WITHOUT Peter the great playing the majority of the playoffs. 

Sakic, Forsberg, Tanguay, Drury, Hejduk, Blake, Bourque, Roy...

The '01-'02 Red Wings are frequently in that convo and that Avs team more less took them down the previous year. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Thorny

[Sabres Fan in NS]

  On 4/3/2020 at 11:23 PM, Thorny said:

Bob Cole's call makes it. "They're gonna get a break here, and it's gonna be Joooooe Sakiccc.......SCORES! Gggggeeeeeeeeo! Sakic!"

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I love all of Bob's calls, but that was one for the ages.

Of all the players that I have watched in my 50 years of watching the game I would pick Joe at #3.  Orr would be a clear #1 followed by Mario and then Joe.