Official: 2018 2nd Round Pick Matthias Samuelsson Signs his ELC with the Sabres

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

5 minutes ago, shrader said:

Much of the negativity is due to the position he plays and the GM who drafted him.

Personally, I'd put some stock in his bloodlines. This would "hopefully" increase the odds of him being relevant.

[LGR4GM]

53 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Personally, I'd put some stock in his bloodlines. This would "hopefully" increase the odds of him being relevant.

Why? What does having an NHL father have to do with anything? There are multiple examples our there of NHL fathers with mediocre hockey playing kids. 

Samuelsson has the potential to be a good shutdown bottom pair defender. His agility and lack of offense is a major concern. Being more than a bottom paring guy would surprise me but Olofsson was not a prospect worth much at 20. He showed flashes though versus Samuelsson who impo hasn't really flashed. We shall see. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? What does having an NHL father have to do with anything? There are multiple examples our there of NHL fathers with mediocre hockey playing kids. 

Samuelsson has the potential to be a good shutdown bottom pair defender. His agility and lack of offense is a major concern. Being more than a bottom paring guy would surprise me but Olofsson was not a prospect worth much at 20. He showed flashes though versus Samuelsson who impo hasn't really flashed. We shall see. 

You would think that bloodlines don't really matter in general except that seem to matter more in hockey.  Maybe it's the kids get access to better coaching or have a better understanding of what it takes to be a pro.  Maybe having an NHL Dad gives the scouts a better feel for what type of player you are going to be.  For example, the Foligno kids and Tkachuk kids play the game with the same intensity of their fathers and display much of the same skill set.  

If he becomes a better skating version of his Dad, Kjell, I think we'll all be happy the Sabres drafted him.  

A pretty good scouting report an Samuelsson - https://lastwordonhockey.com/2018/04/27/mattias-samuelsson-scouting-report-2018-nhl-draft/

Quote

 

Skating

Samuelsson has good balance and can use his size to outmuscle opponents. He is a good skater for his size, with decent speed in both directions. However, his acceleration could use some work. It takes him a few strides to reach that top speed which can be an issue in closing short distances and getting to loose pucks. His agility and footwork are decent. While they can use some improvements, he changes directions quickly enough in most situations, and his pivots allow him to quickly transition from offence to defence and vice-versa.

 

I think this kid has a better future then we are giving him credit for.  

Edited March 26, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? What does having an NHL father have to do with anything? There are multiple examples our there of NHL fathers with mediocre hockey playing kids. 

See Sam Reinhart.  

 

 

 

 

I kid l kid.  Although his siblings may be the case in point. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? What does having an NHL father have to do with anything? There are multiple examples our there of NHL fathers with mediocre hockey playing kids. 

Samuelsson has the potential to be a good shutdown bottom pair defender. His agility and lack of offense is a major concern. Being more than a bottom paring guy would surprise me but Olofsson was not a prospect worth much at 20. He showed flashes though versus Samuelsson who impo hasn't really flashed. We shall see. 

This made me recall Ghost and the way he applied his horse-trader eye to scouting.

Genetic stock matters in athletics. Nurturing also matters, and the knowledge, connections and wealth an NHL dad brings constitute that. Neither is the be-all and end-all but each supplies an incremental advantage.

Interesting that the fact that Samuelsson has been both the captain and the shutdown defender of choice for his cohort in one of the world’s best hockey development programs doesn’t “pop” for you. It does for me. Again, it’s not the be-all and end-all (heck, his profile resembles that of Jason Botterill, the player) but coaches trust this kid at the highest level of the game.

Edited March 26, 2020 by dudacek

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

This made me recall Ghost and the way he applied his horse-trader eye to scouting.

Genetic stock matters in athletics. Nurturing also matters, and the knowledge, connections and wealth an NHL dad brings constitute that. Neither is the be-all and end-all but each supplies an incremental advantage.

Interesting that the fact that Samuelsson has been both the captain and the shutdown defender of choice for his cohort in one of the world’s best hockey development programs doesn’t “pop” for you. It does for me. Again, it’s not the be-all and end-all (heck, his profile resembles that of Jason Botterill, the player) but coaches trust this kid at the highest level of the game.

Other than the bloodlines, McCabe had a very similar background.  Really expect he's pencilled into McCabe's role ~ the '22-'23 season.  And wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up a legit 5/6 when all is said and done.  (Wouldn't be shocked if he flames out or follows a Mike Wilson trajectory either; would be surprised if he ends up a legit 3/4.)  But in a salary capped league, especially on teams that have a Dahlin, there's room for a legit 5/6, especially one that won't put up gaudy budget busting stats but does play well in his own end.

[FogBat]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? What does having an NHL father have to do with anything? There are multiple examples our there of NHL fathers with mediocre hockey playing kids. 

Samuelsson has the potential to be a good shutdown bottom pair defender. His agility and lack of offense is a major concern. Being more than a bottom paring guy would surprise me but Olofsson was not a prospect worth much at 20. He showed flashes though versus Samuelsson who impo hasn't really flashed. We shall see. 

I'm glad he's not the son of Oaf.

[Curt]

46 minutes ago, Crosschecking said:

I'm glad he's not the son of Oaf.

Ulf Samuelsson 

[triumph_communes]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? What does having an NHL father have to do with anything? There are multiple examples our there of NHL fathers with mediocre hockey playing kids. 

Samuelsson has the potential to be a good shutdown bottom pair defender. His agility and lack of offense is a major concern. Being more than a bottom paring guy would surprise me but Olofsson was not a prospect worth much at 20. He showed flashes though versus Samuelsson who impo hasn't really flashed. We shall see. 

Does the team need him to be more than a cheap reliable bottom pairing defenseman? 

[Curt]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

This made me recall Ghost and the way he applied his horse-trader eye to scouting.

Genetic stock matters in athletics. Nurturing also matters, and the knowledge, connections and wealth an NHL dad brings constitute that. Neither is the be-all and end-all but each supplies an incremental advantage.

Interesting that the fact that Samuelsson has been both the captain and the shutdown defender of choice for his cohort in one of the world’s best hockey development programs doesn’t “pop” for you. It does for me. Again, it’s not the be-all and end-all (heck, his profile resembles that of Jason Botterill, the player) but coaches trust this kid at the highest level of the game.

1) Wasn’t Botterill a forward?

2) Having and NHL dad and being rich can certainly help someone develop as a young hockey player, but a guy still has to be evaluated for what he is as a player.  He doesn’t get a bump purely because his dad was good.  “He can’t skate, BUT his dad was great!”  That doesn’t work.

3) By all accounts, Samuelsson is big, strong, a good locker room guy, and hardworking.  Captain material.  Not much offense in his game.

His swing skill is really the skating.  Reports that I’ve seen have been mixed.  I don’t know if it will be good enough.  If it’s not “good enough” for him to keep guys in front of him, he probably won’t be able to play in the league.  If it’s “good enough” he could probably be a 5/6/7 who gets PK mins.  If it is close to NHL average he could probably be a shutdown 2nd pair guy who is your #1 PK option.  That’s the hope at least.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? What does having an NHL father have to do with anything? There are multiple examples our there of NHL fathers with mediocre hockey playing kids. 

Samuelsson has the potential to be a good shutdown bottom pair defender. His agility and lack of offense is a major concern. Being more than a bottom paring guy would surprise me but Olofsson was not a prospect worth much at 20. He showed flashes though versus Samuelsson who impo hasn't really flashed. We shall see. 

Sorry , I just saw your post. Some of the others have responded with some good posts as well. Just to add a few names.....Max Domi, Paul Stastny, Parise, Couturier, Nylamder, Barrie. 

While I get it that there is no guarantees, I do agree with others that it can have some advantages. I can also see your point that there are many who may have been "mediocre". But, I would also ask you .....what do you consider a "mediocre" hockey player? Just asking because I don't consider any hockey player that's played pro in any league (whether 1g or 1000) to be "mediocre". You may not feel that way and that is fine with me, just would like to know where you personally draw the line.

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Sorry , I just saw your post. Some of the others have responded with some good posts as well. Just to add a few names.....Max Domi, Paul Stastny, Parise, Couturier, Nylamder, Barrie. 

While I get it that there is no guarantees, I do agree with others that it can have some advantages. I can also see your point that there are many who may have been "mediocre". But, I would also ask you .....what do you consider a "mediocre" hockey player? Just asking because I don't consider any hockey player that's played pro in any league (whether 1g or 1000) to be "mediocre". You may not feel that way and that is fine with me, just would like to know where you personally draw the line.

So you say that every NHL player is elite?  They are of course, but when we use words like fringe, mediocre, good, elite, we mean relative to other NHL players, not relative to all humans on the planet.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

So you say that every NHL player is elite?  They are of course, but when we use words like fringe, mediocre, good, elite, we mean relative to other NHL players, not relative to all humans on the planet.

Where did you see the word "elite" in my post? Come on....get real. Where did you see me include "all humans on the planet"? 

The bolded is why I asked LGR where he draws HIS line and not YOU. There is no need for you to put words in someones post that aren't there, especially when answering a question YOU were never asked.

 With that said....I'm fine with where you stand on your opinion. Why I can't seem to have a different opinion than yourself is beyond comprehension and quite honestly I'm done.

[FogBat]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Ulf Samuelsson 

It was meant to be a play on words pejorative. Ulf sounds a lot like Oaf. There's a reason why people liked to call him Oaf Samuelsson.

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Where did you see the word "elite" in my post? Come on....get real. Where did you see me include "all humans on the planet"? 

The bolded is why I asked LGR where he draws HIS line and not YOU. There is no need for you to put words in someones post that aren't there, especially when answering a question YOU were never asked.

 With that said....I'm fine with where you stand on your opinion. Why I can't seem to have a different opinion than yourself is beyond comprehension and quite honestly I'm done.

Chill.  It’s a public forum.  If you didn’t want anyone else to chime in, send a private message.

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, Crosschecking said:

It was meant to be a play on words pejorative. Ulf sounds a lot like Oaf. There's a reason why people liked to call him Oaf Samuelsson.

Apologies.  That was ignorance on my part.  Never heard the nickname.  Never really saw him play.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

27 minutes ago, Curt said:

Chill.  It’s a public forum.  If you didn’t want anyone else to chime in, send a private message.

I said I was done....?

[nfreeman]

51 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I said I was done....?

Dude.  Take it down a notch please.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

1) Wasn’t Botterill a forward?

2) Having and NHL dad and being rich can certainly help someone develop as a young hockey player, but a guy still has to be evaluated for what he is as a player.  He doesn’t get a bump purely because his dad was good.  “He can’t skate, BUT his dad was great!”  That doesn’t work.

3) By all accounts, Samuelsson is big, strong, a good locker room guy, and hardworking.  Captain material.  Not much offense in his game.

His swing skill is really the skating.  Reports that I’ve seen have been mixed.  I don’t know if it will be good enough.  If it’s not “good enough” for him to keep guys in front of him, he probably won’t be able to play in the league.  If it’s “good enough” he could probably be a 5/6/7 who gets PK mins.  If it is close to NHL average he could probably be a shutdown 2nd pair guy who is your #1 PK option.  That’s the hope at least.

1) He was, but like Samuelsson he was a big slow, smart, physical player, who was a national team staple as a junior and lauded as a leader, and he had a dad with big hockey connections.

2) If you thought my post was contradicting any of that, I apologize for not communicating better.

3) Agreed on all points. I found it interesting that the Sabres statement on his signing mentioned his skating ability as a positive. Spin, or shots fired, I guess we'll find out.

[#freejame]

12 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Sorry , I just saw your post. Some of the others have responded with some good posts as well. Just to add a few names.....Max Domi, Paul Stastny, Parise, Couturier, Nylamder, Barrie. 

While I get it that there is no guarantees, I do agree with others that it can have some advantages. I can also see your point that there are many who may have been "mediocre". But, I would also ask you .....what do you consider a "mediocre" hockey player? Just asking because I don't consider any hockey player that's played pro in any league (whether 1g or 1000) to be "mediocre". You may not feel that way and that is fine with me, just would like to know where you personally draw the line.

Max Domi is 10x the hockey player Tie was. Paul Statsny has been far from mediocre his entire career less the last two season. Zach Parise is also better than his father, he’s just ran into health issues. Sean Couturier’s dad barely cracked the NHL whereas he’s a premier player. William might be better than his dad, it’s too early to say. Barrie is also better than his father. 
 

Maybe I misread your post and you’re saying these players *are* all better than their dads, but if not I’m not sure I’m following on your list of names. 

[LGR4GM]

Mediocre to me means they are just above the level of a JAG. It is someone that does contribute but isn't all the great. Are they replaceable, probably but they are not terrible and generally are okay. Vesey is Mediocre most of the time. Samuelsson seems mediocre. As I said repeatedly, he looks like a 5/6 defender. Can he be more, idk. I will say this, I have less annoyance with this pick than I do with the Johnson pick even though Johnson has a higher ceiling. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, #freejame said:

Max Domi is 10x the hockey player Tie was. Paul Statsny has been far from mediocre his entire career less the last two season. Zach Parise is also better than his father, he’s just ran into health issues. Sean Couturier’s dad barely cracked the NHL whereas he’s a premier player. William might be better than his dad, it’s too early to say. Barrie is also better than his father. 
 

Maybe I misread your post and you’re saying these players *are* all better than their dads, but if not I’m not sure I’m following on your list of names. 

You most likely misread my post.....the point was that they are sons of of former players  and those are examples of players (the sons) that are not "mediocre" It really wasn't intended to be a "better than their father" comment and only an example of sons that aren't mediocre.

Thank you for your civil response and attempt to verify the information conveyed in my post, it is appreciated more than you know.

[#freejame]

5 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

You most likely misread my post.....the point was that they are sons of of former players  and those are examples of players (the sons) that are not "mediocre" It really wasn't intended to be a "better than their father" comment and only an example of sons that aren't mediocre.

Thank you for your civil response and attempt to verify the information conveyed in my post, it is appreciated more than you know.

After I posted I felt there was no way I didn’t misread it, but I figured just in case you didn’t I would make for a good discussion on whether son or father was better so I left it. 

When you think you’re dealing with a person thinks Tie Domi is better than Max you have to step carefully because there’s clearly something wrong. Glad we sorted it out. 

[nfreeman]

FWIW, his college coach (Andy Murray -- a former NHL head coach) was on WGR this morning and spoke very highly of him.  Murray made it sound like Matthias is absolutely an NHL player.

Also, I hadn't connected the dots, but Dawson DePietro was a college teammate of Matthias'.  Murray said DDP was one of the fastest players in college hockey and a good scorer, and has a reasonable chance at making the NHL.

[Thorner]

On 3/25/2020 at 7:21 PM, dudacek said:

Other than a handful of you who actually scout video on these guys, is the generally negative feeling toward Samuelsson mostly about his profile and the unfashionability of big, stay-at-home defencemen these days?

Is there no longer room for that type in the league? Cernak from Tampa seems to be doing pretty well. It certainly describes the current Chara. Brandon Carlo is effective. David Savard? Josh Manson?

The kid is a physical specimen, smart and he captained USDP team and the WJC team. Why do we think he's going to be Brad Miller?

He sounds just like Jake McCabe. That's his ceiling. We'd be better off without McCabe playing regular minutes, so I'm not very excited about this Botterill special. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Thorny