Updated: Pegulas and arena/hospitality workers

[EasternOHSabresFan]

5 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Maybe its time they do something for themselves for a change.  Taking this time to properly assess their situation and then take an ACTIVE role in changing it for themselves like enrolling in colleges using government grants to get a degree that will pay them something more than part time minimum wage would be a good start...

Is it really humanity, or is it like giving out participation trophies to avoid having the real, hard, truthful conversations nobody wants to have?

When employers start paying a living wage and cut the deep gap in cost of living vs. wages, THEN maybe you have a point.

Until then, all of this is hogwash... employers have been taking advantage of low wages in this country for years. Time to pay up for those who made their money off of this fact.

[bunomatic]

7 minutes ago, EasternOHSabresFan said:

This has to be sarcasm...

Of course

[matter2003]

20 minutes ago, EasternOHSabresFan said:

When employers start paying a living wage and cut the deep gap in cost of living vs. wages, THEN maybe you have a point.

Until then, all of this is hogwash... employers have been taking advantage of low wages in this country for years. Time to pay up for those who made their money off of this fact.

Really? Because I changed careers at age 40, which people laughed at me for and told me nobody was ever going to hire a first time developer with no CS degree at that time, then after proving that wrong I worked fulltime and went to school fulltime for 2.5 years,  becoming a software engineer and 4 years later I'm being paid 6 figures in Buffalo and basically more than doubled what I was making prior to that. Where "wages are lagging way behind the nation".

So don't feed me that bullcrap, I'm not hearing it. People are great at making excuses for why they are where they are but not so good at doing something about it.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by matter2003

[matter2003]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

Not everyone has the same opportunities or choices available to them.  

Sure they do. Online classes and government grants to go back to school are a real thing. In some cases depending on where they enroll, they might even get PAID to go back to school while getting a degree.

Edited March 14, 2020 by matter2003

[matter2003]

5 hours ago, Ogre said:

And college isn't the savior you're making it out to be. I have four people in my apprenticeship that have college degrees. One of them has a masters. Now they're adding a four year apprenticeship just to have a career with a decent wage and benefits.

Depends on what the degree is in. Hint hint...computer science would probably be a good field to get into...just saying.

[matter2003]

5 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

"I don't agree with your life choices without knowing a single thing about your life, therefore you deserve to face financial hardship" is pretty inhumane. But you do you. 

It doesn't have anything to do with whether I agree with them or not. People always have options no matter what the situation is. 

[Hank]

57 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

It doesn't have anything to do with whether I agree with them or not. People always have options no matter what the situation is. 

My views are very similar to yours and I agree with everything you've posted in this thread. We are definitely in the minority amongst SSers. It's not difficult to earn a living wage. It's real easy to join the army or marines. Decent pay, free healthcare for the family, free housing, 30 days paid vacation, GI bill where you not only get your tuition paid for four years, they give you a living wage on top of it. There's not enough qualified welders to fill available jobs. Join a union and go through an apprenticeship program and you can start out at$35/hr and draw a pension after twenty years. Get your class A license and you'll never NOT be able to earn a living wage. I'll stop with those three fields because their the ones I've personally worked in and have knowledge of, but I know there's many more. 

People complain about not being able to find work. What they really mean is they can't find the job they WANT, in the field they WANT, working the hours they WANT, in the city they WANT, for the money they WANT. Instead of earning a living wage doing something they don't want, they cry about how life ain't fair. It's BS. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

19 minutes ago, Hank said:

My views are very similar to yours and I agree with everything you've posted in this thread. We are definitely in the minority amongst SSers. It's not difficult to earn a living wage. It's real easy to join the army or marines. Decent pay, free healthcare for the family, free housing, 30 days paid vacation, GI bill where you not only get your tuition paid for four years, they give you a living wage on top of it. There's not enough qualified welders to fill available jobs. Join a union and go through an apprenticeship program and you can start out at$35/hr and draw a pension after twenty years. Get your class A license and you'll never NOT be able to earn a living wage. I'll stop with those three fields because their the ones I've personally worked in and have knowledge of, but I know there's many more. 

People complain about not being able to find work. What they really mean is they can't find the job they WANT, in the field they WANT, working the hours they WANT, in the city they WANT, for the money they WANT. Instead of earning a living wage doing something they don't want, they cry about how life ain't fair. It's BS. 

This post is just soooooo bad, you have no clue whatsoever. It's just so easy.....hahahahaha (sorry, but it's really not funny!!!). Really stop and listen to people sometime when they are actually speaking to you about real life.

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

This post is just soooooo bad, you have no clue whatsoever. It's just so easy.....hahahahaha (sorry, but it's really not funny!!!). Really stop and listen to people sometime when they are actually speaking to you about real life.

Really? You know many people who were turned away by an army recruiter? For what reason?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

59 minutes ago, Hank said:

Really? You know many people who were turned away by an army recruiter? For what reason?

So called easy life decisions are what I'm questioning more than anything, but to answer your question....yes for medical reasons.

But also, what about someone displaced from a job let's say because their company closed the doors and they're in their 60's with no other training and market is stagnant. Maybe underlying medical issues that limit capabilities and options? They take a job at a McD's or similar job to make ends meet and be useful instead of relying on welfare?

What about the kid who chooses the service, gets injured and/or PTSD then comes home and one day wigs out, pulls a knife on his mom....cops come and shoot him because he wouldn't put it down? Good life choice?

Could tell you others but you probably have your mind set already so won't bother.

[Ogre]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Depends on what the degree is in. Hint hint...computer science would probably be a good field to get into...just saying.

So you made your decision on your current  trade at 40 years old and you're going to disparage the major an 18 year old picked? Do you go around the local playgrounds and shove little kids off the swings because you're older than them? I like the reference to six figures, anyone in a Union trade pulls those numbers AND walks away at 55 years old with a $4G/month pension and with an annuity that tops most 401k plans. They also eliminate the ogre of burden(no relation) that student loans bring. Do you pay the favor of your reward forward by training OTHER people to prosper in the trade or do you just post cynical commentary on how they're obviously wasting their lives? Hint hint... I do the prior. I'm grateful to live how I do. Not a lot of folks have the modest standard that I do. I would feel like an Ogre if I let my fellow human down like that....just saying.

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, Tondas said:

Terry, dig another frickin' well and pay your folks.  You bought the team (thank you, but with that purchase comes responsibility).  Look at the team.  Look at the fan base.  Do some good PR for a change.  How tone deaf can you get??

1.  Do we think that Wegmans should pay its cashiers who aren't working 12-6am because the stores are closed now?  (I do, but where is the outrage there?)  The Wegmans are billionaires, too. Again, any other business that closed?  Plus, the Sabres already said that they're going to take care of their workers.  What more to do?  Geez.

 

2.  I note that, as usual, right wing favored political commentary gets a pass here, right, @nfreeman?  You've been online after it started and you haven't issued the admonition that you normally would to Liger, me, countless others. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Eleven

[Hank]

36 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

So called easy life decisions are what I'm questioning more than anything, but to answer your question....yes for medical reasons.

Yes, medical reasons are valid. Do those medical reasons also prevent this person from driving a truck?

[Hank]

44 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

 

But also, what about someone displaced from a job let's say because their company closed the doors and they're in their 60's with no other training and market is stagnant. 

It's logical to infer that your hypothetical employee has no other training because they've been with this company for decades, they must be at middle management, making middle management money for quite some time. This employee is retirement age, and at the very least can draw social security if not a full pension. No savings after roughly forty years of working, much of which had to be at least middle management or better? He needs a part time job at McDonald's to make ends meet?  Yes. Your hypothetical employee made a series of poor life decisions. 

[matter2003]

1 hour ago, Ogre said:

So you made your decision on your current  trade at 40 years old and you're going to disparage the major an 18 year old picked? Do you go around the local playgrounds and shove little kids off the swings because you're older than them? I like the reference to six figures, anyone in a Union trade pulls those numbers AND walks away at 55 years old with a $4G/month pension and with an annuity that tops most 401k plans. They also eliminate the ogre of burden(no relation) that student loans bring. Do you pay the favor of your reward forward by training OTHER people to prosper in the trade or do you just post cynical commentary on how they're obviously wasting their lives? Hint hint... I do the prior. I'm grateful to live how I do. Not a lot of folks have the modest standard that I do. I would feel like an Ogre if I let my fellow human down like that....just saying.

You wouldn't be letting them down. In most cases they let themselves down. Does nobody take responsibility for their lives anymore or does everyone just make one giant excuse after another as to why they are in the situation they are in? I mean I get the noble effort thing but honestly maybe what they need is to get a kick in the ass to make them re-assess things.

[Ogre]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

In most cases they let themselves down

I challenge you to prove this to me.

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, tom webster said:

They announced they will he paid if games are canceled.

The money is a lot more then some if the calculations.

Decisions such as these are not taken lightly.

 

That's good to know.  Hopefully they aren't hanging too long waiting for the funds.

 

[nfreeman]

@Eleven — again, not everything is political.  This is a broad and sober and mostly respectful discussion about the obligations in society of the wealthy and of those who are just getting by.  No one is firing in hysterical and/or gratuitous partisan shots.  

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Yes, medical reasons are valid. Do those medical reasons also prevent this person from driving a truck?

Could be. Truck driving isn"t  any great job...I know from experience. Of course, that's just not for me thank you but may be ok for others.

The point is that many decisions can seem easy but may be much harder than you think, especially not knowing someone"s limitations.

[Hank]

3 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Could be. Truck driving isn"t  any great job...I know from experience. Of course, that's just not for me thank you but may be ok for others.

The point is that many decisions can seem easy but may be much harder than you think, especially not knowing someone"s limitations.

The point is those jobs are out there, they're just not appealing. They can be obtained by literally almost anyone who will take it. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

It's logical to infer that your hypothetical employee has no other training because they've been with this company for decades, they must be at middle management, making middle management money for quite some time. This employee is retirement age, and at the very least can draw social security if not a full pension. No savings after roughly forty years of working, much of which had to be at least middle management or better? He needs a part time job at McDonald's to make ends meet?  Yes. Your hypothetical employee made a series of poor life decisions. 

Again you are assuming something that's not true. Social security is peanuts and then pay for medical out of that.

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Just now, Hank said:

The point is those jobs are out there, they're just not appealing. They can be obtained by literally almost anyone who will take it. 

Again this is assuming health issue aren't a consideration and some are on meds that wouldn't allow you to drive a truck.

[Eleven]

44 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

@Eleven — again, not everything is political.  This is a broad and sober and mostly respectful discussion about the obligations in society of the wealthy and of those who are just getting by.  No one is firing in hysterical and/or gratuitous partisan shots.  

Very interesting.  I didn't see too much hysteria in the other instances.  I think you may have a blind spot.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Eleven

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Again you are assuming something that's not true. Social security is peanuts and then pay for medical out of that.

 

Your made up situation led me to assume. Give me a different made up situation with more detail and I'll have less assumptions to make answering your made up situation. 

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Again this is assuming health issue aren't a consideration and some are on meds that wouldn't allow you to drive a truck.

Can't drive a truck because your on meds? The country is short of qualified welders. You can also make $600/wk doing uber/Lyft. What do want to add to your hypothetical scenario now?

6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Or maybe you just don't see it.

Eleven, not trying to be a dick, but I also missed what you're referring to. Is my current conversation part of what you're referring to?

Edited March 15, 2020 by Hank